Gun control debate restarts following shooting

[chimpymustgo]

By Peter Schroeder - 01/09/11 10:02 AM ET


Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) called for an investigation into how the man that shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and 19 others in Tucson Saturday obtained a handgun despite a "history of mental instability."

The shooting is kicking off a fresh debate on gun control laws.

"How did he go through the process and end up with this gun and with this ammunition?" said the Senate Majority Whip. on CNN's "State of the Union." "I think that's a legitimate question."

A suspect, 22-year old Jared Loughner, is in custody. Media reports indicate that the handgun used in the shooting was obtained legally.

However, freshman Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah), who appeared later on the program, suggested no amount of laws restricting gun ownership could prevent a person "bent on performing evil acts to kill another person."

Laws are already on the books that prevent mentally ill people from obtaining guns, he said.

-edit-


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/136843-gun-control-debate-restarts-following-shooting

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We have got to deal with gun control, and the interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

[Celeborn Skywalker]

1. The supreme court won't hear

a 2nd amendment case for a while. Didn't they recently strike down DC gun laws? Any really tough gun control will probably be ruled unconstitutional.

[fascisthunter]

2. "well regulated militia"

how that was twisted to mean every american should be allowed to carry or own whatever gun they want. Follow the money.... goes right to the gun industry itself.

[benEzra]

7. You haven't read the Court's opinion in D.C. v. Heller, I see.

The court upheld the National Firearms Act restrictions on automatic weapons and over-.51's, as well as the Gun Control Act of 1968's restrictions on possession by criminals and the mentally ill. The court upheld the right of mentally competent adults with clean records to own non-automatic, non-sound-suppressed civilian firearms under .51 caliber, plus shotguns, which is hardly new or radical.

Gun control activists would probably be taken more seriously if they actually took the time to understand the issue, the relevant Federal statutes, and 2ndA-related jurisprudence. The fact that they don't bother is why the gun-control lobby is where it's at today, IMO.

[Paladin]

26. Lose The Gun Enthusiast Smugness. You're No Longer Entitled To It. (n/t)

[benEzra]

41. If you can't contest the facts of the case, attack the witness, right?

Fact: D.C. v. Heller did not hold that "every american should be allowed to carry or own whatever gun they want." Period.

Care to contest that?

Every time a tragedy occurs, you launch into this "only one side of the gun control debate should be heard" refrain like was done in the early 1990's. The problem is that if you shut down the debate and only letting the controllers speak, the debate invariably proceeds in the direction of another 1994, and that was disastrous for Dems. And I have never once seen you criticize a controller for hijacking a grieving thread in a lets-ban-stuff direction; you only criticize objecting to the hijacking.

I would be very glad if the gun control debate would just fucking go away, but as long as people are going to use every tragedy as a bludgeon to attack and demonize all gun owners, I will object to the bludgeoning, because to fail to do so would be to repeat the gun control debacle again.

[Motown_Johnny]

33. "being necessary to the security of a free state"

these people's guns are not necessary for the security of the state

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be
infringed.

[DCKit]

3. Key words: "well regulated". nt

[randr]

4. I bet this guy would have had a hard time getting on a flight

yet he can buy a weapon of such destructive capability.
As a gun owner and second amendment supporter I find no reason that we should not be able to establish laws to prevent people like this from purchasing such weapons.
I do not want terrorists on planes or armed in my streets!

[goddess40]

6. No need for automatics

Especially pistols. Automatic pistols are killing machines. Fine and imprison those who manufacture, sell and buy them. I'll concede somewhat on automatic rifles, however, a true hunter should be able to hunt with single shot.

[benEzra]

11. All civilian (NFA Title 1) guns are non-automatic.

No need for automatics Especially pistols. Automatic pistols are killing machines. Fine and imprison those who manufacture, sell and buy them.

All civilian (NFA Title 1) guns are non-automatic; automatic weapons are a 10-year Federal felony to possess. If you're thinking of semiautomatic guns---guns that fire one and only one shot each time the trigger is pulled---that's how the vast majority of civilian firearms work. Revolvers work the same way, BTW (one shot per trigger pull), they just function on different mechanical principles.

Do you really think you can imprison 60 million otherwise lawful adults? Or even ban their stuff with no political backlash?

I'll concede somewhat on automatic rifles, however, a true hunter should be able to hunt with single shot.

Hunting is almost totally irrelevant to gun ownership. The overwhelming majority of gun owners (>80%) are nonhunters.

Defensive purposes and recreational/competitive target shooting are the primary reasons for ownership, followed distantly by hunting and collecting, in that order.

[Statistical]

29. He didn't have an automatic pistol. All automatic weapons have been heavily regulated since 1932.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. They are not automatics, they are auto loaders

and firearms ownership is not just about hunting.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. This does not iillustrate that additional gun control is needed

More mental health care is called for

[BanzaiBonnie]

8. Agreed

Someone should have caught this before this tragedy happened. People did notice, but what was done? They kicked him out of school. More disenfranchisement and turn him loose on the street.

[chimpymustgo]

9. Gun control is needed. People carrying concealed automatic weapons is insane.

[benEzra]

14. Automatic weapons are as tightly controlled as bombs, hand grenades, and howitzers.

Possession of ANY automatic weapon outside of police/military without Federal authorization is a 10-year Federal felony.

Civilians carry Title 1 non-automatics, just like police do.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. ... some of which should be reserved for radio hosts. n/t

[dsc]

13. you can't have it both ways

if he was insane, as you seem to imply here, then an insane guy legally got a gun. That pretty much defines a need for more gun control.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. I tend to think he was crackers and fell through the cracks of the system

Not hard over on that, since there is so much detail missing. At this time it appears that on paper he is as qualified as you, or I, or the president to own firearms.

[demoleft]

15. the individual right to buy and use a gun is no policy, it is just far west. and here...

...and there, USA and europe, politics is or should be about community welfare and safety, not just individual right to buy a gun.

it is not a virtual discussion. it is something that grows dangerous for the communities as time goes by.
so i agree on gun control.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. Actually according to SCOTUS it is a Constitutional right, which makes it more than policy

Daley and other anti rights Democrats not withstanding.

[demoleft]

22. my point was not only about USA, i know u have individual rights there...

...that grant that.
i just reported of a 70-year-old man in italy who shot dead his wife and two men today.
it's a growing phenomenon, like it or not.

now, when you have to do with such a matter of fact - growing number of people getting their gun and shooting around and firearm businesses who advertise, promote, sell automatic weapons to civilians as if there was a war right outside their door - do you think a big democratic community like the american one should or should not ponder if it is the case for more restrictions?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. False as to fact

Violent Crime in the US is declining. Higher crime rates are found in places with the most repressive gun laws.

No one in the US is selling automatic weapons to civilians. The term semi-auto is actually a misnomer, self loading would be more accurate.

[demoleft]

24. ok, self-loading weapons then. and since violent crime in the US is declining...

...all is well, and what happened in arizona or here in italy and is going to happen over and over again is just a tragic accident.
are you seriously easy with this?

i'm not. laws are not meant to last til eternity, they can be changed if a community feels the need.
i don't think many of these "tragic accidents" would take place if those people had not a gun available, and too much easily available as to that.

a further reduction and decrease of violent crimes in this perspective may find you favorable, i suppose.

italy is the stage of growing events like that. and i'd like more control and restriction: people living in cities and towns, in US and europe, are not at war.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. At this point , the statistics do not support your position in the US, I won't speak for Italy.

[demoleft]

34. what can i say? i hope you find a better way than restrictions to solve that...

...or simply we're going to discuss this issue over and over for years, and more families to cry the death of their beloved ones over and over.
i'm not easy with this, despite any statistics.

thanx for discussing with me - greetings, from italy

[Statistical]

31. While laws are intended to change it requires a significant level of support

to amend the Constitution.

A majority of Americans support the courts interpertation of the 2nd amendment.


A super majority of Americans support the right to own a pistol

[demoleft]

36. i know. the majority of americans some years ago voted for bush as well...

...but we went on disagreeing, thinking that it was a mistake.

:) kidding.
but yes, i go on disagreeing and number myself in the 20%.

ciao from italy

[Statistical]

28. Actually violent crime has been on a 30yr decline in the US,

This despite more liberal gun laws and more guns owned.

[demoleft]

37. who knows? with a more restricting law, this arizona guy might not have...

...found it easy to shoot like that, and some people would be still alive.
3,4,5,10 - or even 1 person saved would be good enough.

anyway, whatever the figures, we can't just witness these events.
if not restricting laws, some other way.
i find it hard to imagine a people open-minded and looking with some faithfulness to the future like americans, armed at home as if citizens were at war.

i know it's in the history and tradition of yours, but maybe some things need a change.

[Statistical]

39. A real and comprehensive mental health system might have prevented this.

Sadly that is lacking in the US and a bunch of useless gun control laws isn't going to change that.

[demoleft]

40. that too, of course. u're right. but in many cases, some sadly in italy lately...

...mental health could not have prevented it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

44. Also with a more restrictive law, others would die instead

[The Straight Story]

12. Someone needs to pass a law that makes hurting others illegal, then people will obey that law and

all would be well.

The only people we need to keep weapons away from are the few, not the many.

[Earth_First]

16. My #1 hated discussion on DU... n/t

[The Straight Story]

18. What's #2? Smoking or breastfeeding? (nt)

[Earth_First]

19. That's a tough one... n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Circumcision, though guns is the only one with its own DU forum

[Statistical]

27. So Held: The Second Amendment guarantees an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected ...

So Held: The Second Amendment guarantees an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Heller v. DC (2008)

[divvy]

30. I thought guns were supposed to make everyone safer?

Truth be know, anyone who needs to carry a gun in order to feel safe has mental health issues.

[Statistical]

32. So Congresswoman Giffords is mentally ill?

She supports the 2nd, supports conceal carry, and has indicated she carries.

Still we are safer. Violent Crime in the US is at a 30 year low.

[divvy]

35. Why not send guns to school with children then?

wouldnt that make schools safer?

[Statistical]

38. Why not let children drive cars, sign contracts, drink alcohol, or have sex with adults?

LOGIC FAIL on your part.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

42. You clearly have lead a sheltered life

They are legitimate tools for self defense. I am unwilling to take them away from those who need them and neither is Rep. Giffords, who was strongly pro gun.

For example, its very hard to bash an armed gay person