SF: ACLU Joins the Fight Against the Circumcision Ban

[RandySF]

As expected, we can now add the ACLU to the list of people officially against the proposed circumcision ban in San Francisco.

Today, the organization's Northern California branch joined the Jewish Community Relations Council by filing an amicus curiae brief that urges the California Superior Court to strike down the measure and keep if off the November ballot.


http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/07/aclu_joins_the_fight_against_t.php

[FreakinDJ]

1. If we were talking "Women's Parts" here ....

it would be totally different

Reality is no sense in sniping Jr's Peter when teaching him to wash correctly will suffice

[Spider Jerusalem]

2. There's no comparison.

It's insulting and stupid to suggest there is.

[FreakinDJ]

3. Yin-Yang

This Simbol(Yin-Yang) represents the ancient Chinese understanding of how things work. The outer circle represents "everything", while the black and white shapes within the circle represent the interaction of two energies, called "yin" (black) and "yang" (white), which cause everything to happen. They are not completely black or white, just as things in life are not completely black or white, and they cannot exist without each other.

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. Go look up "clitoridectomy" and then get back to me.

[FreakinDJ]

7. Actually Plastic Surgeons perform Elective clitorous surgery

I know some one who had it done

http://www.labiaplastysurgeon.com/sexual-enhancement.html

http://www.psurg.com/clitoris.html (warning graphic pictures)

I am TOTALLY AGAINST Forced procedures like those performed on Male Infants and Women of certain countries

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreakinDJ]

10. Its OK to disagree but the "Name Calling" is over the top

I guess you win because you called me names first

Did you even read the links ?

Partial removal of the labia minora is an elective plastic surgery. So how is that different to sniping off part of little Johny's peter against his will

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreakinDJ]

12. EPIC FAIL - read the links

the surgery you cited is being performed as an elective surgery by plastic surgeons

How is that different from snipping off a piece of little Johny's peter without his consent

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. I read the links

and we are not talking about elective surgery, we are talking about female genital mutilation (which was your original and totally stupid comparison). The epic fail is all yours.

[FreakinDJ]

14. When did little Johny consent to circumcision is what i want to know

When he was what 2 maybe 3 days old

[FreakinDJ]

16. I Agree Female Genital Mutilation is horrible

How ever I don't feel being lambasted for stating the obvious cultural and physical similarities between male infant circumcision and female genital mutilation should be ignored

Nor did actively advocate IN Favor of the proposed ban against Male Infant Circumcision

I simply implied the cultural acceptance is in contradiction with it's self. - you proved my point

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. Not really, no

male circumcision doesn't render males incapable of sexual climax or enjoyment or of engaging in intercourse without pain and tearing and bleeding. The similarities are not so very similar (and there are reasons other than religion for male circumcision; see studies re reduced HIV transmission, for instance).

[FreakinDJ]

19. Without being too graphic

I hear what your saying and I agree with your premise

The uncircumcised penis (Un-hooded)is more susceptible to infection, but how much of that is because society tells little Johny if he shakes it or washes it too much he is playing with it. How much of that is Western society where we wipe with paper products as opposed to other societies where they wash and don't even use paper products.

And has the same argument been said by the Cultural Defenders of Genital Mutilation ?

Similarly the foreskin has that High Ratio of neural receptors that medicine has associated with erroneous zones such as the Clitoris. Mature men would have elective circumcision performed as a means to decrease sensation and prolong the sexual experience

Not trying to piggy back women's cause to end Genital Mutilation World Wide but the similarities are obvious - but yet in Western Society it is perfectly acceptable

Personally I think the practice is a bit outdated

[Occulus]

25. DU's misandry brigade ALWAYS brings up FGM *whenever* male circumcision is mentioned

Always. There is yet to be a thread on male circumcision in which that group does not appear to tell men how well-off they are.

If they can give me mine back, I'll take them seriously. Otherwise, ignore them. They have nothing productive to offer the conversation.

[Bonobo]

5. So don't have your kid circumcised, but don't think to push your views onto others.

If there was a law demanding that kids be circumcised, I could see why you might whine, but you are demanding that others live by YOUR sense of what is important and that is simply unacceptable.

[FreakinDJ]

8. Just stating the obvious

Not meaning to ruffle feathers - just trying to present a different facet to the argument

[OnionPatch]

23. When they cut Jr's peter off completely, so he has no sexual feelings

then we'll start seeing it as comparable. I hope you understand that cutting off the clitoris means no sexual feelings for a woman. Not every method of female circumcision does this, but many do cut off the clitoris and more.

[FreakinDJ]

26. Oh - I forgot about G-spot orgasms

I fully understand your frustration

[AtomicKitten]

6. Right. Well I'm not comfortable with the government telling me what to do as a parent.

Not surprised the ACLU agrees.

I'm in the medical biz and there are some pretty gnarly complications that can occur without circumcision often ironically leading to circumcision. Adhesions, frenular tethering, and the ever popular smega festival.

edited for typo

[MouseFitzgerald]

15. I still dont understand why circumcision is legal for children

How can it be legal to perform an unnecessary surgical procedure on a child before they can even speak or read? Why cant they just wait until the kid is older and can actually have a choice in the matter? Why do these parents think their religious beliefs give them the right to cut off a piece of their child's penis without their consent?

[provis99]

18. vaccines are "unnecessary". Fluoride is "unnecessary".

Even Christian Scientists believe medicine is "unnecessary".

that's a pretty weak argument you're making.

[FreakinDJ]

20. Sure if there was medical basis for the surgury

other then "Western Society's" perceived notion the uncircumcised penis is dirty

Myth 1: Circumcised penis is more penile hygiene and cleaner. A substance consists of oils, dead skin an antibody called smegma will accumulate beneath the foreskin of uncircumcised penis thus provide an ideal environment for bacteria colonization. This condition will increase the risk of infection, unhealthy and unclean.

Fact 1: Smegma has been wrongly accused as unclean or dirty. In fact, it is very clean. The antibodies in fresh smegma actually prevent bacteria colonization. It is true when the accumulation of smegma went unchecked could be unhealthy but any penis that is not properly washed is at high risk of infection since dirt and bacteria can collect everywhere from your foreskin, scrotum and your pubic hairs.

Read more: http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/circumcised-penis.shtml#ixzz1SRRnWkTp

[pipi_k]

24. Because maybe the alternative...

letting the kid decide on his own...isn't so great.


I knew a young man years ago whose parents didn't have him circumcised as a baby. So he had it done at the age of 19 or 20.

He said it was hell and he was rather upset that his parents hadn't had it done when he was a baby.


So you know...it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Parents aren't mind readers. They don't know what their kid is going to want or not want when he's an adult. They can only do their best and try to make a decision based on their own religious beliefs or feelings about something.

[MouseFitzgerald]

29. So this guy was mad that he had to make a decision?

That has to be the first time I have heard about someone being mad that they have freedom of choice. What about a situation where its the opposite, where you have a person who was circumcised when they were a child and now that they are older they wish that they weren't? How is choice a bad thing?

[mistertrickster]

21. At worst, circumcision is pretty harmless. At best, it respects religious tradition (Jewish)

and may have advantages for cleanliness.

HIV transmission is slightly less likely among circumcised males for example.

Sometimes, more gov't just isn't the answer.

On edit--

I've studied the Hebrew Bible with a local Orthodox Jewish congregation, and if the goyyim are not aware of it, they should know that no tradition has more importance than the bris. It must be carried out on the morning of the eighth day.

Outlawing the bris is like forbidding communion wine in the Christian tradition or the Haj for Muslims.

[jberryhill]

22. ...or human sacrifice for Aztecs

Because, you know, if circumcision is legal, then the next thing you know is that the Aztecs will agitate for legal human sacrifice.

Then, all of the Mexican immigrants will claim they are Aztecs and start chasing around all our young women with daggers, just stabbing their hearts out like picking olives out of a jar. A whole generation wiped out, and with no American virgins left, only the Mexicans wil be able to have babies!

That's right - we will be taken over by terrorist Mexican anchor babies, while the rest of our young men have to turn gay and force everyone else to recognize their marriages because no virgin American women will be left alive!

Don't think this can't happen, I saw it on a website somewhere.

[qb]

27. WRONG. At worst, circumcision can result in complete penis amputation and death.

http://www.circinfosite.com/42.html
South Dakota, September 18, 2009
Parents Sue; Their baby died last year in June.

New York, New York, February 2005
3 babies contract herpes, one of whom dies, from a rabbi that implements a bizarre procedure called "metzitzah b'peh," in which he basically sucks the wounded infant's genitals.

Cleveland, Ohio, October 20th, 1998
A boy DIES undergoing surgery to correct a PROBLEM caused by his initial circumcision
.
.
.

http://www.albertastars.com/posts.php?forum=4&topic=2636
David Reimer, the unfortunate Canadian boy whose botched circumcision required a complete amputation. He was raised to believe he was a girl, later identified as a man, and finally committed suicide.

[mistertrickster]

28. 40,000 people died driving in cars last year . . . stop driving! stop driving NOW!

Also, the few cases you cite are more than made up for by HIV and cancer that wouldn't have happened if circumcision had taken place.

Lastly, if you don't want your son to be circumcised, don't have it done.