Mental Illness Failures helped in Giffords shooting

[SargeUNN]

I live in Arizona and so yesterday's tragic event certainly strikes hard. I read and listened to the news of day's event and as more was brought to light about the shooter, I started to realize that no matter the motivation and influence on this young man, the fact that mental health issues are still woefully left lacking. Remember Reagan and his closing mental hospitals and clinics which left many ill people out on the streets? Too much has been ignored and some of the old stereotypes that had started to be realized as wrong instead started to regain a position of correctness. I thought of the works of Dorthea Dix from the 19th century and what a struggle she had but how she got progress in her day. It is sad that many in our prison system are mentally ill and that illness ignored, that some are used to do the horrors of groups because the actions are too hideous for them to do themselves so they use the mentally ill to get it done. Dorthea Dix saw the mistreatment of severely mentally ill in her day and she worked to stop it, but Reagan brought us closer to the things Dix worked so hard against.

Yesterday, was the results of many failings of our nation and society in several areas, but this young man was very disturbed mentally and seems many realized it, but instead of treatment and attention, he was shunned and ignored. Today 6 are dead, others in hospitals in serious condition, the young man in jail, and yet the mental illness is being used to explain his actions by many, and instead of taking it as a call to action to continue the work Dorthea Dix started, we simply refuse to credit Reagan for his taking us backwards on the issue and we open our society up to even more abuse and mistreatment of these people.

[Barack_America]

1. No proof he sought such services.

Though I agree that Republicans absolutely gutted and destroyed our mental health program.

[SargeUNN]

6. no you missed the point

I didn't say he sought help and it would appear he probably didn't, nor did anyone appear to address the fact he needed such help. The simple fact that many still feel mental illness, especially of his severity, is grounds to ignore and shun such instead of his family, friends, and persons of influence doing things to encourage treatment. The stereotypes of the past were starting to lose their status before Reagan and then with his position on mental health, and the refusal of the Republicans to give it it's proper level of attention, it only encouraged these stereotypes, shunning of the people and their problems. Don't be so single focused on the event to miss the general picture I am talking about.

[HereSince1628]

10. You might be able to help me with a link...

You use the phrase "many still feel mental illness, especially of his severity,"

Could you provide a link to the source that shows someone competent to make a diagnosis of mental illness has examined the shooter, made a diagnosis of severe mental illness and shared it with a credible news outlet?

[jody]

2. Do those arguments also apply to someone like Charles Manson? n/t

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[JDPriestly]

14. Most people who are mentally ill are not dangerous.

Many of them are very, very frightened. Others are so disorganized that they may be dangerous but not likely to premeditate violence.

Mix a population with a fairly high percentage of undiagnosed mental illness and a lax system regarding handgun permits and you have a very dangerous situation.

We can argue that most people who have guns handle them safely. But then we have to admit that we make it easy for those who cannot handle their anger, who are very, very fearful or who are mentally ill to obtain weapons that that can do a lot of harm and they can't handle.

Is that a price we pay for freedom? If so, is it too high? I don't think we have agreed on the answers to those questions.

[jody]

15. Well said. n/t

[HereSince1628]

20. Study on violence and mental illness from New Eng Journal of Medicine

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp068229#t=arti...

It cites a study from the 1990's that showed persons with severe psychological illness represent only 2x the risk of violence of persons without severe psychological illness, and even so that was less than the risk of violence in alchohol users or other drug users.

[JDPriestly]

21. Thanks. Alcohol is a huge factor in violent crime, especially murder.

[jody]

26. Thanks. nt

[kestrel91316]

22. My mom is schizophrenic, but has only ever been a danger to herself. That said,

I feel very strongly that paranoid schizophrenics in particular who pose a threat to OTHERS need to be confined and restricted (in a humane environment) so as not to endanger the public. These people can be EXTREMELY dangerous because of their paranoid delusions.

The trouble lies in figuring our who is truly a danger to others. It requires a great deal of time, energy, and effort on the part of mental health professionals, and we as a nation seem unwilling to spend the money. We'd rather let the crazies do crazy stuff and then just toss them in prison.

[Cetacea]

28. BS.

The mentally ill are less inclined to violence than so-called normal populations.

[dkf]

23. Very important point. Nicely done.

[handmade34]

3. my thought...

there has been much talk in political circles about the need to provide more security for politicians... I believe we need to spend the money on comprehensive health care for everyone(including mental health) not extra security detail...

[sharesunited]

4. It's true that Reagan was bad for the People.

But so are guns and ammo.

[divvy]

5. Carrying a gun in public to feel safe IS a leading indication.

[jody]

17. Is that why 840,000+ law enforcement officers carry handguns? n/t

[dkf]

7. His college recognized it and instead of getting help, kicked him out.

This could have been prevented right there.

On the other hand, I don't imagine that someone who is paranoid would ever seek help in fear that they won't have access to guns and protection.

[seabeyond]

8. his parents live in gated community. implies could afford help. college made parents aware of the

issue. i dont see how you expect the college to be able to do more, than what his parents appear to not be willing to do.

[dkf]

11. True.

But don't you think that should at least trigger something to prevent buying a gun?

[JDPriestly]

19. He is an adult. Many mentally ill people refuse help until

they hit a real low. And even after they get help, they often don't like taking their medication and stop. Then the problems become worse. So, just having access to mental health care and really benefiting from that access are two different things.

We need to educate people to be more tolerant of the many mentally ill people among us.

Of the mentally ill among us, what percentage do you think actually go out and shoot someone? I think it is very small. That is why I think that ending the political incitement to acts of violence of this kind is the key to stopping them.

Our society will always have mentally ill people who are either not diagnosed or not taking their medication. But we don't have to incite acts by them or others against politicians.

[Posteritatis]

24. Or they *do* take them, "feel better," stop and recrash..

There's a whole support system needed for people adjusting to the treatment process at times. Nearly every person I know with one problem or another who finally got treatment needed a couple of fairly solid months of support from friends or family - to say nothing of the physicians! - before they adjusted to the habit of sticking to any therapy, medical, dietary, etc regimens they needed to control their condition.

Even if someone's actively, enthusiastically seeking help, it's hard; there's so many spots where someone can stumble, and it's cruelly unfair to put the onus on the sufferer alone in just about any circumstance. That's even before taking into account the whole "any mental illness = crazed murdered" attitude that's far too common, to say nothing of the politicised equivalents that are so popular here.

[seabeyond]

27. of course. with everything you say. was responding to it being the colleges job. nt

[Maru Kitteh]

12. His college had an obligation to the safety of every other student that attended

It is the healthcare system's obligation to care for him, the healthcare system's failing, not the college which needed to protect it's students.

[HereSince1628]

16. His college did a CYA protocol. They haven't admitted

recognizing anything but behavior that was incompatible with school policy.

Persons suffering from paranoia really do seek psychiatric help.

And finally, there is epidemiolgical evidence that after treatment persons with severe psychotic disorders have a similar rate of commission of acts of violence as the general public. That would suggest that intervention and treatment do have an affect in reducing violence committed by the severely mentally ill.

[Posteritatis]

18. Expel-on-diagnosis policies are depressingly common in college campuses these days. (nt)

[lynne]

25. Exactly what I've been thinking, too. He fell through all the cracks but WHY?

He was in trouble in school. The army refused him but won't say why due to privacy laws. The college removed him with the condition that he could return if he'd been cleared by a mental health professional. He'd been in trouble with the law and had made prior threats. He made bizarre rants online that seemed to grow worse each day. Yet there is no evidence at this time that the school, the military, law enforcement, his friends, or his family tried to get mental health care for him. The school recognized that he needed help but they are powerless to force him to get it, all they can do is boot him out.

Good Grief, this guy has been throwing signals for YEARS yet nothing was done. Who is accountable for that? We've heard nothing from his parents and I'm curious as to if they ever sought help for him.

We have federal laws in place to prevent those with a history of mental illness from purchasing a gun. Had he been adjudicated as mentally ill or incompetent he would not have been able to purchase that gun. Had he received help, there's a good chance that yesterday would have never occurred.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

29. County mental hospital is a joke.

From what I know about a large one, they spend lots of time asking questions and diagnosing, and then not offering therapy other than one hour a week of art therapy or game playing (pictionary with others). And anti-depressants.

Why should somebody live in a locked ward 24/7 for a couple of weeks if they get ONE hour a week of therapy???

No group therapy, no individual therapy. Usually I think the docs are there just to give psychotic people their meds. No actual talk therapy or groups. And if you don't have a drug addiction or alcohol addiction, and you're mostly just depressed, well, they can't really do anything for you. They can't shuffle you off into a 12-step group.

[EFerrari]

31. Well, if someone is in the middle of a psychotic episode,

it can take up to two weeks for their meds to build up in their system and be effective. If that person becomes violent in that state, then that person and everyone around them is safe for those two weeks.

But more commonly, people in that situation are simply given a prescription and sent on their way. Most people are not violent and don't need to be segregated for safety. But leaving them to manage such a big change on their own is also problematic.

I don't think there is a system in place that works unless you're wealthy and money is no object.

[Swamp Rat]

30. k&r