Strip club owner posts “No Negroes Allowed” sign

[The Straight Story]

Strip club owner posts “No Negroes Allowed” sign

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Posted: 12/08/2010

NBC - Posted by Charles Ray
ABBOTSFORD, Wisconsin - A sign excluding black people from a future Abbotsford, Wisconsin business is enraging some people in the small town.


It's a sign generations of people may have never seen, yet Mark Prior says it's his right to discriminate.


"If I've got a problem with you it's going to be on the front of my store," says Mark Prior.


Prior posted his 'No Negros Allowed' sign after he says he had some problems with black people in the past and needed to make a policy against them.


Federal and State law says if the business is open to the public, prohibiting people based on race is illegal. If the man's proposed gentlemen's club was going to be a private club, then an African American historian says he could discriminate.




http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/national/strip-club-owner-posts-%E2%80%9Cno-negroes-allowed%E2%80%9D-sign

[Taverner]

1. Thank you Rand Paul....

Grrrrr......

[Love Bug]

2. What year is this? Century?

I'm glad to hear some of the residents don't agree with this. Who'da thunk in 2010 we'd STILL be dealing with this kind of thing? What a moran...

[gratuitous]

3. Well Abbotsford and surrounding areas

Is this consonant with your values? Will Mr. Prior's business (which isn't even open yet) prosper? Are you going to give him a lot of free publicity to attract a like-minded clientele to your area?

[Ishoutandscream2]

4. Those damn racist southerners are at it again!

Ah, whoops...

[FiveGoodMen]

14. No one said they were ONLY in the South

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ellipsis]

76. A whole week.... really.

Newport, New Hampshire

A mountain town in western New Hampshire as stereotypically redneck as anywhere in the South. Home of Ruger Firearms, hence the town is militantly pro-gun. Rebel flags are even an occasional sight. The local barbershop on the corner of Sunapee St. and Main St. is called Git R Cut, since the town is proud of it's Redneck label. Classy middle class homes are located across from white trash dwellings, and everyone seems to get along. Drunks are all over this town, but fortunately the heroin addicts and such are all nestled privately on Laurel St. and the surrounding environs, especially Cross Street. Lifted trucks are also quite common to see. Many residents are classic inbreds.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Newport%2C%20New%20Hampshire&defid=4279096


...you should know better.

[JoePhilly]

17. The GOP's Southern Strategy was never just about the South ...

Its really more of a "Southern and Rural Strategy" ... but that's more than would fit on their letterhead.

[Bucky]

26. !!

Thank you.

[Hosnon]

29. +.

It should be pointed out every time something like this occurs outside of the South.

[tjwash]

48. Then you will need to park a permanent thread on the Idaho and Utah page

[Angry Dragon]

5. That means no black strippers

[Jamastiene]

58. Which would really suck too. n/t

[TorchTheWitch]

80. pfffft... of course there will be black dancers

What, you think strip clubs want black dancers for their black clientele? Or asian dancers for their asian clientele? Noooooo... every strip club knows that men like women that are different from themselves sometimes even more than they like woman that are most similar to themselves. Men tend to like an astonishing variety of women, and when they go to a place specifically to be entertained by women they are more satisfied with the places that offer the widest variety that includes race, size, shape, age, attitude, style, etc. Strip clubs always have been the perfect place for men to enjoy the company of a an ethnic woman they would feel too confined by their family or community prejudices to be willing to experience in their "real" world. Sad, but still true.

[seabeyond]

86. sheeeit, their very own bigotry. a black female stripper is not who they are bringing to mama

the black stripper is fun in the taboo and for their entertainment, but certainly not one that they would want anything else for.

[arbusto_baboso]

92. True. The reverse is also true. When my wife and I go to strip clubs...

The black dancers fall all over her fair skin, red hair and blue eyes, and usually give a lot extra for our money.

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. Prior wants to open a gentlemen's club in a building next to the Abbotsford city hall and library.

Strip joint, library and city hall.

Someone has zoning issues, on top of Civil Rights Issues.

[hughee99]

11. This sounds like the old "strip club shake down"...

We had a situation years ago where someone wanted to open a strip joint. They didn't really WANT to open on in my town, but they found the location and worked out all the zoning issues. They made sure it was VERY public, so as to get the townspeople up in arms about how we have to do "something" to prevent it. In the end, the town essentially paid him to go away (I think they reached an agreement where he moves on and the town covers some of his "expenses"). As I understand it, he shook down a few towns this way and made enough to buy an existing club.

[Scruffy1]

33. Edgar Alan Poe called it the "eyesore business"

His essay on diddling is still funny today.

[seabeyond]

7. all them white men worried about them white women strippin gonna go for the black guy..... ah men

quit being so obvious in your low self esteem, sittin in a strip bar to denigrate women to their place too..... only the white man allowed to debase their females

just a trip

[Dreamer Tatum]

44. Got some news for you: strippers go where the color is GREEN.

Doesn't matter who's holding it.

[seabeyond]

54. news for you

nowhere was i talking about the strippers....

[Dreamer Tatum]

60. Uh, yeah you did. Go read what you wrote. nt

[DirkGently]

8. Wow. Our complete social regression is just flying along.

[Rebubula]

13. To be fair...

..one ignorant asshole does make a society.

I think that, pulling numbers out of my ass, better than 98% of people in this country would be disgusted by this asshole.


Did you expect shit like this to change overnight? For many years, I have said that this kind of ignorance will take a couple of more generations to get weeded out. Laws can change quickly - attitudes and ignorance takes a while to change.

[Brewman_Jax]

9. So this is what they mean when they yell

"I want my country back!"

Really. :eyes:

[Ron Green]

10. Gentlemen's club? GENTLEMEN'S CLUB???

I love that euphemism; it's like the police sergeant on local TV news who refers to the perp as a "gentleman."

[Jackpine Radical]

12. Perps Club.

Works for me.

And I know Abby well. It's a very small town (pop maybe 1000) in the middle of nowhere, in farm country.

[TheCowsCameHome]

20. Maybe they have a strict dress code.

...like you can't come in naked.

[hughee99]

78. Do they actually have a significant African-American population?

Putting up a sign like this in an area with virtually no AA people sounds far more of a publicity stunt or an attempt to shake down the town for money to go away, than an honest display of racism. Sure, they guy is probably a racist, but I doubt his true motivation is to open a strip club in a town of 1000 people and exclude the handful of "Negroes" that live within 25 miles.

[Jackpine Radical]

90. I imagine there are a few black people in Marshfield,

about 20 miles away, and Wausau, about 35 miles away.

[Kalyke]

15. Correct - "gentlemen" don't ogle women.

Regardless - this story is sick.

[Bluebear]

25. Always had the exact same reaction to that little euphemism. nt

[sixmile]

16. I can only imagine what the Strippers look like

Yikes!

[H2O Man]

18. Dick Gregory

once went into a diner, and was told, "We don't serve Negroes." He responded, "That's okay -- I don't eat Negroes. I'll have a burger and fries."

[KamaAina]

51. Priceless!

:rofl:

[ZombieHorde]

88. Awesome comeback. nt

[HopeHoops]

19. I say we all send him Richard Prior concert DVDs - he shares the same last name.

That should piss the fucker off.

[NeoConsSuck]

73. Pryor

[HopeHoops]

89. Close enough for marching band. It would still piss him off.

[mwooldri]

21. What the heck is a "negro" anyway?

I thought the Civil Rights Act got rid of "negroes".

But then if it is a private club and he has the right to discriminate then people have other rights too, such as not joining, not allowing the private club to open on zoning issues, protesting the building, opening, etc.

And to top it off, get all the churches in the area to picket the place too as being "immoral".

Plus if (hypothetically) the President of the United States wanted to pay a visit, which part would be allowed in and which part would be excluded?

[struggle4progress]

22. His business assumption "Most sexists are also racists" sounds plausible to me

:shrug:

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[plcdude]

24. are you

serious?

[Dogtown]

27. How illuminating.

And unpleasant.

[Dreamer Tatum]

42. The unfettered rights of all to look at titties is guaranteed in the Constitution. nt

[MrScorpio]

28. The laws are clear...

Racial discrimination in public places is illegal.

I think that a nice law suit is in order.

[littlewolf]

37. it is not a public place of business

it is a private club ... this allows him to do what he wants
lawsuit is a waste of time and money ...
easier ways ...
zoning laws for example ...

[Bluebear]

41. Then if it's a 'private club', the sign is not needed, yes?

Only a member could come in so what's the point of the sign in the first place other than to discriminate?

[littlewolf]

43. dont know ... perhaps to let folks know

who need not bother to apply?? I don't know what is going thru this POS mind ...
sorta like way back in the day "Irish need not apply."

[DireStrike]

55. Ah yeah, that's legal too.

:sarcasm:

[Bluebear]

30. You're "in the minority" about refusing service to "negroes"?

You know nothing about being a minority. Idiot.

[Bucky]

31. Perhaps you mean "minority" in the sense that you disagree w/ public accommodations laws

Our titty bar owning friend from Wisconsin is about to discover what Title 2 of the 1964 Civil Rights Act means. May I suggest you go ahead and look that up yourself before you settle down into your libertarian viewpoints?

[H2O Man]

32. ass

[JustAnotherGen]

34. This same business owner

Probably has a cousin's brother's uncle's ex-girlfriend's twice removed aunt that "once" didn't get promoted because a transgender jewish chinese/ecuadoran woman got promoted instead.

He whines about that . . . then does this.

We ALL know the 'type'. Ya know?

[Hosnon]

35. And we could choose not to regulate medicine and let the market figure out which ones don't kill.

Via the body count.

If we agree on the desired outcome (e.g., no racial discrimination in the marketplace, safe drugs), why make X number of people experience something we've just agreed is undesirable (e.g., racial discrimination in the marketplace, death) when we could just work to fix the problem on the front end (e.g., anti-discrimination laws, the FDA)? All for blind faith in the free market? :eyes:

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bullwinkle428]

38. Welcome to our board, Senator Paul!

:eyes:

[Politicub]

Yep, you are thankfully in the minority here

[shellgame26]

40. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

[TheKentuckian]

45. I hope you're in the minority but a stiff wind changes minds pretty quick around here

[tjwash]

47. Can you please specify whether you are conservative or libertarian?

It's getting increasingly difficult to tell the difference between the two anymore.

[Viking12]

49. IBTT

[guitar man]

50. not for the reason he's giving he doesn't

If his business is going to be open to the public then he has an obligation to serve the public. Can he refuse to serve someone if they've had too much to drink, are getting too "handsy" with the girls, not wearing shirt and shoes etc etc? Sure can. Can he refuse to serve someone just because they are black? Not just no, but HELL NO!!! This was resolved by law in 1964. If you don't want to serve the public, don't open a business, it's that simple.

[KamaAina]

52. Racial discrimination is against the law

refusing service to an individual such as Phelps because he's a world-class douchebag isn't.

[Jamastiene]

59. What an assholish thing to say.

How white of you. :thumbsdown:

[liberalhistorian]

63. Not under federal law he doesn't.

You must follow the law when running a business, and the law does not permit discrimination no matter how much of a big, fat, moronic hateful racist idiot you are. Or, at least it doesn't at present; the way things are going now, who knows if that will stick.

[Bandit]

39. I think just posting such a sign is illegal

If it is a Private Club there is no need to post any sign since only members can enter.

[CatholicEdHead]

46. Abbotsford, halfway between Wausau and Eau Claire

It sounds like a good old boys rural thing going on. The City of Abbotsford will probably do something about this as it is a big negative to the area to hear stuff like this.

[AngryAmish]

56. I love Wisconsin, I really do

It is so pretty up there. People are incredibly nice. But many of them are real backward.

[Deep13]

57. "I think I have the right as a business owner to reject service to anyone."

***BZZZZZTTT!!*** Sorry, wrong answer. Thanks for playing. Jesus, he even admits that it was just a few guys and that race really isn't the problem.

[Jamastiene]

61. That place is gonna suck.

I suppose no black strippers either. That means it'll suck double. :thumbsdown:

[guitar man]

64. No kidding

The black strippers are usually my favorites :P

[Xithras]

62. There's a loophole in the Civil Rights Act that may let him get away with it.

The Civil Rights Act only covers businesses that engage in commercial transactions. Many hole in the wall strip joints don't pay dancers a wage (they're contractors) and don't charge a cover. Anyone can theoretically walk in of the street and watch a show without paying a dime.

Public entertainment venues are covered under Part B(4) of the Civil Rights Act, but Part C makes it clear that the restrictions only apply if the business is engaging in "commerce" under the Commerce Clause.

Many girls dance for tips only which, if the location is good, can be hundreds of dollars a night per dancer. The club then charges them a "stage fee" for their use of the facilities, which keeps the doors open...usually a percentage of their earnings.

Because tips are voluntary, the club might be able to legitimately claim that they aren't a commercial establishment offering any services for sale. His "customers", legally, would be the strippers themselves, and not the men who came in to watch them. If there is no commerce, then there's a very real chance that Part B wouldn't apply and he could discriminate as he saw fit.

Does it meet the legal standard for discrimination for a property owner to ban minorities from his property, when the property owner isn't engaged in any sort of business with the public himself? Does the relationship between a stripper and a man offering her a tip even rise to the standard of a "business transaction"? Are strippers required to remove their clothing and dance before minorities, if doing so offends them?

This would be an awesome case to see in the USSC. Not only would the press and late night talk show hosts have a field day with it, but it would answer some real grey areas in the law.

[guitar man]

66. Interesting

So that would mean he could never charge a cover charge, and no drink minimums. Hell, if I'm understanding this right the drinks, beer or whatever would have to be free. And since the strippers are actually the "customers" in this case, he'd have to allow black strippers?

[Xithras]

69. If he sells beer or other drinks, then it's legally commerce and the CRA applies.

Many strip joints work this way to end-run county laws that prohibit any sort of commercial transactions for sexual activity. In many areas of the country, it's illegal to sell a strip tease, but it's perfectly legal to give it away for free (assuming that you're checking ID's to assure that everyone is a consenting adult).

The legal question is simply whether the strip club owner is directly selling services to the public. If so, then his actions are illegal and he can be shut down. Even if he's only selling beer and nachos. If not, if his only business transaction is to rent the stage to the strippers, he may have found a loophole.

Which leads to the second half of my questions above. Is it a business transaction for the stripper to collect tips from customers, when there is no requirement that they pay? Can tips, which are legally gifts, be considered commerce? If so, does that then require strippers to abide by the same laws as everyone else, and lapdance for minorities and the disabled even if they're uncomfortable with it? If the relationship between the stripper and the tipper is legally a business transaction, then the CRA would still apply, because it would cover the entire building. If it isn't a business transaction, then NO commerce is occurring between the club owner and public, and he may be exempt from the CRA.

It's a fascinating question.

Oh, and there's no question that he'd have to allow black strippers, and I can't see any legal recourse for him to deny them entry. If they're contractors renting his stage, then it's a business transaction covered by the CRA. If he's actually paying them a wage, then it's employment discrimination. Either way, he'll get nailed if he tries to turn them away.

[guitar man]

71. Strippers on stage

dancing for dollars on the rail may or may not be commerce, but selling lap dances for $20 a pop damn sure is. No $20, no lap dance.

The only way I could see getting around that one is the strippers would have to give away a certain number of lap dances in order to claim that the tips for the lap dances are voluntary gifts.

Hell, no cover, free beer, free lap dances. If word got around about all that, the place would be so full of 1%ers he'd wish he's never tried to pull his little racist stunt! :rofl:

[Xithras]

82. LOL! Most strippers call fees for lap dances tips too, though.

Technically, a nude dance for a fixed fee counts as prostitution in most of the country. I realize that it happens every day, but even with lap dances the idea is SUPPOSED to be that the money exchanged is simply a tip.

Which brings up yet another question. If a white prostitute refuses to sleep with a black customer, is that a violation of the CRA? What if it occurs in a legitimate and legal environment, like a brothel in Nevada? Is that "commerce"?

I'd never really thought about all of this before, but it's an interesting legal question. Can a black man sue a white prostitute who refuses to sleep with him for racial discrimination? That's a mindbender...the legal right to decline sexual activity vs. federal nondiscrimination laws.

[guitar man]

85. yeah, it's supposed to be

But I guarantee you ain't gonna go over here to the Red Dog Saloon and get a lap dance without coughing up a $20. I ought to ride over there and tell 'em they are violating the law :evilgrin:

The prostitute question you pose is indeed intriguing. As far as I know, the ladies at the legal brothels in NV are free to choose who they do and do not do business with and can turn down any guy any time they like. The question of racial discrimination in such a business definetly adds a different twist to it.

[seabeyond]

87. i thought the whole purpose of the prostitute was she would service them all.....

i mean, reject a black dude and take a dirty, old, ugly, stinky fat WHITE dude that can only get it thru $? nah.

[KamaAina]

65. In other news, Rush Limbaugh to broadcast his radio show live from Abbotsford, WI

:eyes:

[noamnety]

67. Sexist Club Posts Racist Sign!!!

[Rochester]

68. Ban ALL FORMS of private discimination

Just have protections for race and a few others isn't good enough. FORCE all businesses to treat all people equally no matter what!

[Xithras]

72. California already does this at a state level via the Unruh Civil Rights Act.

In California, it's illegal to discriminate against someone for the length of their hair, or their political party affiliation, or the kind of clothes they wear, or any other "distinguishing charactersistic". If a business of any sort denies access to anyone for any reason, they must show a compelling business case for that access denial.

For example: Let's say an emo group with black nails and face piercings started hanging out at a local Starbucks, buying coffee and being loud. It would be illegal, under the Unruh Act, for Starbucks to throw them out based on their looks or the way they act. BUT: Let's say that the same Starbucks started recording the time that those people were coming in, and were able to document a 20% drop in sales during that period, because the emo kids were scaring other customers away. In that case, Starbucks could ask them to leave and not return. Starbucks has demonstrated that their request stems NOT from bias, but from a legitimate business problem.

I don't understand why this model isn't echoed across the country.

[Rochester]

74. That's a good idea. I wish my state was as blue, or that...

...we could simply force it down all the other states' throats by enacting at the federal level.

[guitar man]

75. That's interesting

So in California, a club couldn't post a "no motorcycle club colors allowed" sign? I see plenty of those here, some bar owners have gotten fed up with club rivalries in their bars.

[Xithras]

81. Interestingly, THAT EXACT EXAMPLE has already been tried in court.

Hessians vs. Flanagans (2001)

Flanagans Bar posted a sign requiring that biker gangs remove their colors before entry, and denied access to bikers if they refused. The Hessians Motorcycle Club sued, claiming a violation of the Unruh Civil Rights Act. Flanagans Bar prevailed, because they were able to demonstrate in court that the presence of biker gang colors in their business presented a security and safety hazard for both the bikers and other customers in the bar. The court determined that the bar hadn't denied them entry because they were bikers (which they welcomed), or because the bar had a preference for one gang or another (all bikers were equally required to remove colors). There was no bias involved, but simply an understandable intent to ensure the security of their business and the safety of their customers.

Because the business owners could show that the exclusion occurred for a legal reason, and not as the result of bias, no civil rights violations were found.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1464906.html

Unruh is a very well written law, and should be used as a model in other states. It guarantees that no bias can occur in any sort of business, while still providing business owners the flexibility they need to remove actual, genuine risks.

[guitar man]

83. thanks!

That's some interesting reading :hi:

[Liquorice]

70. That's just disgusting. What a loser that man is, but he does own a strip

club so I wouldn't expect him to be anything but rotten. Some strip clubs also won't let unaccompanied women into their clubs. If you're not with a man, they won't let you in. That's discrimination too, IMO.

[guitar man]

79. Yeah i've seen that before too

I used to be a DJ and bouncer at a couple strip joints years ago. One guy I worked for wouldn't let unaccompanied women in because he had a strict policy against the dancers turning tricks out of his club, so prostitutes would come in and hit up on the customers. It didn't work though, they would just bring some guy in with them, and more often than not he'd pimp for the girls, so the club owner just finally dropped the policy.

[Sparkly]

77. PAGING RAND PAUL!!!! nt

[BOG PERSON]

84. shocking

to think a STRIP CLUB OWNER of all people be so backward and ignorant. SHOCKING.

[Initech]

91. What... what year is this? What year are we living in?