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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:04 AM
Original message
Excuse Me.
“This problem goes to the very bottom of the United States. And you know, I said it to them and I will say it again, if we can't sit at the table (of democracy), let's knock the fucking legs off – excuse me.”
James Foreman; Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee; 1964.

One of the issues that is debated on the Democratic Underground on every two-year cycle that I can remember is about the rights and responsibilities of the left wing of the Democratic Party. For sake of this discussion, I will start by providing the accurate definition of a few key terms. The “left wing” of the Democratic Party includes liberals and progressives. (The right wing of the Party consists of moderate and conservative Democrats.)

Liberals and progressives generally share the same basic values and goals. The distinction is that liberals believe that “the system” can be fine-tuned to achieve those goals, while progressives believe that “the system” requires a restructuring.

The Democratic Left is a segment of the population that includes progressives and many liberals. It does not include any moderate or conservative Democrats. There are no republicans within the Democratic Left. There are many members who are not registered Democratic Party members; these can include socialists, democratic socialists, Greens, independents, and other like-minded people.

Opponents of the Democratic Party and/or the Democratic Left often try to twist and play games with these terms, hoping to confuse, discredit, and divide groups of people who tend to share many common values and goals – even though they may disagree on some issues. For example, during the Cheney-Bush administration, republican parrots and vultures frequently used the term “Democrat Party” while speaking on television. The fact that they would purposely abuse the English language because Karl Rove had divined that this would hurt the Democratic Party's image is important solely because it demonstrated that the republican parrots and vultures were a herd mindless cogs being programmed by the Pillsbury Dough-boy's evil twin.

Their abuse of the language began to shift when Senator Barack Obama began to pull ahead in the 2008 Democratic Primary season. The republicans were unable to publicly use the words they had dancing in their mind to describe Obama. During the presidential campaign, these republicans tried to sell the lie that Barack Obama was a Muslim, a socialist, a Weather Underground sympathizer, and worst of all, a community organizer. Since his election, the right wing of the republican party – the self-described Tea Party – has attempted to portray him as an atheist Adolph X, the Enemy of the State.

Other forces in the republican party are now attempting to exploit the normal tensions within the Democratic Party, and between the right wing of the Democratic Party and the Democratic Left. Just as there are normal – and indeed healthy – tensions within an individual's brain (if it does have two working sides), there are tensions between different groups in the Democratic Party. For as Malcolm X said, if two people think exactly alike, it merely means that only one is thinking.

Democrats, by nature, do not have to check in with a Rovian figure each morning to find out what they believe today. We think for ourselves. Thus, some democrats view “party unity” in a different context than others. The same goes for “party loyalty.” What seems both obvious and right to me, may not be the conclusions that you have reached, based upon your life's experiences. We see this on the Democratic Underground daily – do we not? Some like President Obama; some don't. Some focus on the executive branch; some on the legislative (most recognize the dangers of republican-appointed federal judges).

The debating of issues, including individual politicians, is a good thing Recognition of some basic differences within general groupings within the Democratic Party is, too …..though it is important to remember that real life people can have personal beliefs and values that do not fit “snug” within one group label. But attempting to cause distrust and division should be avoided: this is equally true in terms of the right and left wings of the Democratic Party. Yet we see this happening with increasing frequency on this forum as the elections draw closer.

We should be focusing on those who are attempting to sit at an exclusive picnic table. They tend to draw their restrictions based upon social caste. Let's knock the legs off that. Peacefully, of course. And from every direction.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. I recommended, but a conservative democrat and a moderate republican have a lot in common.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 06:35 AM by boston bean
So, it's not that easy to just get along.

ETA: Conservadems don't want to "knock the fucking legs off".
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. "If you cannot act
upon what you know to be real, right, good, and true, then the things you say, the values that you profess to believe in, have no meaning at all."
--Rubin Carter; Eye of the Hurricane; 2011; page 144

There are people who say that they are democrats, but who's actions/lack of actions betray them. This includes many of the corporate lap dogs in DC.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. kick'd and rec'd
I'd love to knock the legs of their faux facts.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. I expect it to get more intense as we enter into the election season.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 06:29 AM by mmonk
I expect those of the Democratic left of which I belong to be blamed here and also at other places such as Dkos and I expect politicians will continue to blame us as well and some of the more progressive politicians. It seems to be sort of a status quo these days. However, the New Democrats in my opinion should drop their condescension and smugness enough to recognize that we might have worthy ideas on occasion and that we represent many desires of those that vote for Democratic Party politicians as well as traditional values of the party.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I agree.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Well said, mmonk. And K&R to an eloquent OP as well. n/t
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. I think your analysis of liberal vs. progessive is right on.
As a progressive, I look at the current two-party system and think the entire process needs a complete overhaul. It's no secret that both major political parties are hopelessly compromised and neither represent the needs of the people. I can't ignore that, I can't whitewash it and I certainly won't spend time making excuses for it. Corporate interests goes to the CORE of the problem here and the major political parties are just ONE weapon in their arsenal. I'm not interested in partisan bullshit. It wastes my time and it assumes that I'm an utter idiot. I'm not and neither are most people on this board. We need to get down to the BASE of the problem or nothing will ever change.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
I'm glad I caught this one. A very important OP in my opinion. I agree especially with your The debating of issues paragraph.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. ^
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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