People on the public dole living in denial

[phantom power]

This table has appeared before, but it still shocks me, and makes me wonder how the Dems lost the national dialogue of ideas so thoroughly.

Via Crooks and Liars, there's been some illuminating research from Cornell on public perceptions of what constitutes a "government social program". Turns out that whether or not you identify as someone who has used a government social program doesn't really depend on things like having used a government social program.



Levels are shockingly high across the board, but the data suggests that it's middle class people who don't identify as someone who has used a government program, even when they get a check in the mail from the U.S. Treasury. I highlight that, because the obvious dodge away from seeing what's going on here is to claim that people don't perceive tax credits or deductions as government programs, because they think of government programs as things where you go directly for services or money. But Social Security and VA benefits look like a government program just as much as food stamps. Also, the aesthetic difference between Head Start and student loans isn't enough to justify the gap in perception, and interestingly, Medicare and Medicaid are very similar, and yet there's more than a 10 point gap in perception of yourself as being on a "government program" if you use it.

These numbers only make sense if you assume that whether or not one identifies as someone who uses a government social program depends on irrelevant things like class status. This table demonstrates the effectiveness of decades of Republican propaganda equating "social program" with deragatory stereotypes of poor people and non-white people. When you call someone up and say, "Are you in a government social program?", you're going to get a lot of white, middle or upper class conservatives thinking, "I'm not some low rent welfare queen," and they're going to answer no without really connecting the dots.

The obvious result of this is that Republican voters are supporting ideas they clearly don't understand, because their prejudices are preventing them from thinking clearly. So you see a lot of conservatives raving online about how we don't need to raise the debt ceiling, and they're thinking, "We've borrowed enough money to pay for the liquor and cigarettes for an undifferientiated hoarde of dark-skinned layabouts. Screw 'em. They should get a job and spend their own money."

http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/people_on_the_public_dole_living_in_denial

[exboyfil]

1. Not to start a fight

but programs/laws which allow you to avoid taxes on income do not seem to be in the same category as those from which actually pay you something. It comes back to the assumption of whether what you earn starts out as yours or the states. This is a fundamental question because, if you assume all income is the states, and the state decides what you can keep, then I am not sure how that is any different than slavery.

For this reason tax avoidance items such as the 529, mortgage interest and other deductions, and tax credits that don't exceed the amount of tax which you pay are not government social programs. For better or worse these are programs that attempt to influence behavior. You could also include 401(k)/IRAs and Health Savings Accounts into this mix as well.

At the point in which you receive more income/services/ benefits from the government than you paid in taxes, at that point you have reached a social program. Social Security is a classic example of this - higher current incomes subsidize the system in two directions - towards those with less income and those in the past whose withholding rates were less than current workers. This is why the cap on Social Security contributions is so unfair because it says that every individual, regardless of income, has satisfied their obligation to subsidize after paying a certain amount of money.

You can view taxes in a couple of different ways. I like to view them like insurance. If you have more to insure, then you pay more to insure it. That is the cost of playing in our society. For this reason a wealth tax on assets secured by U.S. law enforcement/military should be taxed on a prorated basis for those services. I could further argue that ensuring a minimum income for everyone is cheap insurance when compared to the alternative (civil unrest, etc.). The argument can be further extended to incomes because you are paying taxes to ensure your ability to continue to receive that income (that earning potential is an asset).

[CaliforniaHiker]

2. I'm going to have to agree

I also understand, in particular, why people receiving Social Security wouldn't consider it a social program. If they paid into Social Security for 40 plus years, then it is hard to make the argument that they haven't earned Social Security, and there are still those who believe that they money they paid in was put into an account specifically for their use. Yes, there are many who may ultimately end up receiving more in Social Security than they paid in, but it is almost like making regular insurance payments, you may eventually need a procedure that costs more than you total contributions, but it is balanced by those who do not need a costly procedure.

[JuniperLea]

3. I consider allowing me to keep more of my own money...

A payment. It's more money than I would have ordinarily... just like if it were given to me.

[phantom power]

4. to answer the first part of your question....

we have a democratic form of govt (and yes, republic, electoral collage, etc etc etc), so in our case "the state" *is* us.

[bread_and_roses]

8. We ALL receive more income/services/benefits from "the government" than we pay in

Public school. Public roads. Public water systems. Courts. Food and Drug Administration. Code. Clean air and water regulation. Gov't funded research. And so on.

[Octafish]

5. ''I'm not some low rent welfare queen.''

Pure racism -- Which is how the Reich managed to pollute the minds of the "white majority" to "social programs" like "welfare" and "food stamps" and the rest.

K&R.

[phantom power]

6. I was thinking, in addition to the racist memes...

there is simply the meme that govt programs are bad, and taking advantage of govt programs is bad. So, independent of racism and classism, I bet there is just straightforward shame: an unwillingness to admit that one is using govt assistance.

[Buns_of_Fire]

7. "Living on the public dole" = congresscritters nt