Is anybody still defending the President's "brilliant rope-a-dope?"

[markpkessinger]

I mean, seriously -- we're back to the Catfood Commission's recommendations. But sure, Obama has them right where he wants them, right?

Something tells me it is all of US who are being "rope-a-doped."

I am simply beyond disgusted.

[catbyte]

1. I'm just depressed by the whole thing. It's all hopeless.

And Justin Amash is a dick. What an embarrassment to the state. One of many, sadly.

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. Beyond disgusted as am I.

Nice legacy he leaves, eh?

[Dept of Beer]

125. He will still have 4+ more years to add to his legacy.

Be sure to get out and vote for him in 2012.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dept of Beer]

151. Perhaps you are the one that doesn't get it...yet.

Wake up.

[robinlynne]

154. oh I get it. Obama sold our country to the same people Bush was selling it to before.

[MattSh]

226. Yep, you definitely get it...n/t

[UnrepentantLiberal]

236. Yep yep. This is beyond belief.

He's brought about change alright. He's changed me from a, I guess naive fool, who was positive and had hope that Obama would be this country's next FDR to a cynic who no longer believes this country can be changed.

-----

Custodial services, benefits management and the water-bill call center will be privatized after 30- and 45-day layoff notices go out...

(Chicago Federation of Labor President Jorge) Ramirez insisted there have been “no negotiations over work-rule changes — period” with local unions whose members would be impacted by those salary-shaving changes.

...“If mayor Rahm Emanuel were serious ... he would have taken the appropriate measures to engage in such discussions. The fact that he has never done so is clear evidence that this attempt to blame union work rules for the city’s massive deficit is public relations gimmickry,” Bayer said in a statement.

-----

Last summer, during a White House meeting with first-term Senate Democrats, Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont, asked Obama whether he'd nominate Elizabeth Warren for the permanent head of the consumer protection agency.

Obama held up a half-full glass of water and told him: "That's the problem with you progressives. You see this as half-empty."

That right? Then why did you run as a progressive during the 2008 Democratic primary election?

[MedicalAdmin]

319. I know this comment will likely get deleted.

But I once met Obama (pre election at a dem fundraiser at a friends house) and he always struck me as a deeply intelligent, passionate, and spiritual man. He seemed to care. But I never saw him as the leader we needed.

We needed Nelson Mandela. I'm not sure who we got, but it wasn't a man willing to back up his convictions with his life. This is just my impressions, but I think they are non the less valid.

[rhett o rick]

288. I have a different perspective. Obama works for the same over-lords Bush worked for. nm

[grahamhgreen]

161. A tiny part of me agrees, we may be better off having the senate and house and a shitty Repub we can

rally against....?

[paulkienitz]

174. either way, it's congress we have to work on

Realistically, we have a choice between Obama and a mediocre to awful republican... the place we can make a difference is in congress. More real representatives of the people and fewer stooges means Obama or whoever has to do more real stuff... and assuming it's still Obama, once he sees which way the wind is blowing, it could be a case of "the leaders will follow". So in this election, getting solid people in Congress is probably more important than the Presidency.

[jtown1123]

239. Yes. It is easier to have a repuke pres that all the Dems can rally against i.e. Bush and SS Priv.

[AllTooEasy]

245. EASIER FOR YOU! Bush was complete hell for me and everyone I know!

[jtown1123]

260. Yes but is SS privatized? NO.

[newspeak]

282. yeah, Little Boot's set up the scenario for the big fall

He may act like an idiot, they might have portrayed him as a good old boy idiot, but there was a method to his madness. And, now you know what it is. The stage has been set and the actors know their lines very well. You think it was a coincidence that Little Boots before the election had his pow wow about how things were fekked and you need to save my buddies? He's been pouring money to his "constituents" for eight long years while giving them massive tax cuts while our jobs under his watch were going bye-bye-also increasing the deficit.

To me, the whole scenario has been orchestrated and Obama is the second part of the play. I said on another thread awhile ago, that I was not staying home, I was voting democratic and I hoped the democrats would overwhelmingly win the congress, to see what form of progressive policies they'd initiate. But, if congress (either house) wound up with a repug majority-they'd have an excuse to cut the social safety net and further privatize government programs.

The more these cretins privatize, the more taxpayer money is funneled to corporations-the more corporate corruption without over site, the more services cost us. They are in it for profit, so why would anyone think that privatization is better? And, the more of our money the corporations rake in, the more they spend doing ads and buying politicians against our interests. What a fekkin circle jerk!

[rhett o rick]

289. Agree but when Bush was president I had hope. That's gone now. nm

[ThomWV]

235. +1

[jtown1123]

238. I'm in the same boat if this shit passes...I just can't cast my vote for him

[robinlynne]

331. me too.

[swilton]

244. Thought of various scenarios

to play out what you describe....I'm counting on voting for the Presidential candidate whose positions are most consistent with mine, regardless of political party.

The political party charade is just nonsense and totally meaningless.

[Enthusiast]

213. No he won't.............nt

[cui bono]

250. You mean his legacy of being the best republican president ever? n/t

[texshelters]

304. You'll have to do better than that

why should I bother. Yes, I will vote, but Obama might not be on the list. Locally, there are some Dems who have earned my vote. Besides, the electoral college means my vote in Arizona doesn't make a difference. If it was winner take all, well, that MIGHT be another story.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[bigwillq]

3. I've been disgusted by politics

for a very long time. I feel very few are actually fighting for the American people.

[Doctor_J]

16. I don't know how or why Bernie Sanders, Sherrod Brown, Alan Grayson,

Marci Kapture, ... go on.

[proverbialwisdom]

24. Dennis Kucinich, Rush Holt...

[in_cog_ni_to]

178. I don't know why

one of them doesn't step up to the plate to save our freakin' party and challenge him in the election. Someone MUST now.

[Enthusiast]

215. Sherrod Brown is under a barrage

of dirty Rovian TV advertisements. They are disgusting and they run frequently during the evening news on Columbus TV stations. I don't know regular people can hope to compete with massive corporate money.

[newspeak]

280. and that's the crux of the thing

that corporate cash influencing the populace with mostly fabricating ads over and over again, because they got the moolah. I get so sick of hearing the ads on TV over and over again-"I'm worried about my children's future, grandma's worried about her SS and then they say something about they want to raise our taxes, stop them from raising taxes. So, full of BS-what is it? You worried about grandma's SS or you worried about taxes?

[dana_b]

301. well thank goodness they do

because they are the few that I still have some hope in.

[bdamomma]

302. I feel the same way

we are definitely on the back burner getting burnt!

[damntexdem]

4. But his rope-a-dope WAS brilliant -- really got around all the Dems in Congress.

And fooled a good portion of DU, to boot.

[Dept of Beer]

126. Which part of DU was fooled vs not?

[ClassWarrior]

160. Are you admitting you knew he was aiming for Catfood Commission standards all along?

NGU.

[Dept of Beer]

166. I'm waiting for damntexdem's reply.

Please understand. I'm a skeptic at heart.

When an official, local or otherwise, tells a crowd something that they like to hear, without a shred of proof that s/he will do it, then I look at it through a jaded lens.

Unless I have their sig on a piece of paper saying that they will do exactly what they say then I will NOT believe them.


I have that right as an American. Most people have forgotten it.


Obama is not a god to be worshipped. He is a man. Men are fallible.

[cui bono]

251. Since you had to ask the answer should be clear to you now. n/t

[Dr Fate]

271. Pretended to be fooled might be more accurate. The DUers who pretended the big 3 were safe.

Is who we are talking about.

DUers who assured us Obama would not touch the big 3-they were either fooled or pretending.

[Divernan]

281. That's right. You weren't here until a month ago, so wouldn't know

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[no limit]

6. Remember how anyone that took the catfood commission seriously was called nuts?

How Obama would never embrace the commission's recommendations and that it was all just done to waste some money?

That was obvious since at the time any Democrat defending what the commission proposed was absolutely unacceptable. But now that Obama was embraced it then it's a-okay all of the sudden. And now you're considered nuts if you don't think the catfood commission was a good thing.

[Divernan]

37. My vet had me switch my cat to baby food - cheaper & healthier than cat food

This information will become of great value to us all in 3 . . . .2 . . . .1 . . . .NOW!

[Dept of Beer]

127. I'm sure that there will be many blue links in support of his plan.

[defendandprotect]

144. Obama's administration is one big "Cat Food Commission" ... topped off by team of Simpson 's... !!

[Divernan]

242. Obama's named a Fracking Commission to undercut EPA

It's makeup is blatantly biased against the environment and in favor of Big Oil & Gas.

[lark]

285. He's the best Repug president big money could buy

or as I prefer to think of him - our very own Trojan Horse president- sent to destroy the Democratic party and doing a great job of that. He's beyond disgusting.

[AlabamaLibrul]

228. The goalposts have fallen to tectonic shift n/t

[jtown1123]

241. I remember. It feels not so good to be right though...

[SSDA]

246. Sad but true.

My default position now is always the absolute worst and most pessimistic, which sadly seems to be the most likely from this admn and congress.

Horrible.

[newspeak]

284. yeah, HE APPOINTED the cat food commission

and many on DU were worried because Simpson was on it. Some said "don't worry, there's others on it, too." You couldn't put a moderate repug on it, he had to put "kill SS" Simpson on it?

[Doctor_J]

7. It's been renamed

Boxing In The Repukes

Please keep your smokescreen language up to the minute

[woo me with science]

8. Oh, there's boxing going on,

but the Republicans aren't the target, it seems.

[Mimosa]

10. Good drawing, WooMewithScience.

Did you do it?

[woo me with science]

19. I just adapted the Obama trading card

being passed around in this fawning link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x710145

[bananas]

15. That would make a great t-shirt. nt

[woo me with science]

26. Well, maybe a protest sign.

I honestly don't know if I could wear a shirt with a beat up old person on it, even in cartoon form.

These sociopaths have to be stopped.

[shanti]

106. put some long hair on the old guy

and O can be punching hippies too - old hippies!

[Dept of Beer]

128. Are you calling O a sociopath or an enabler of such?

[U4ikLefty]

163. yawn

[Dept of Beer]

167. Do you feel the need to reply for others?

They can do it for themselves.

[U4ikLefty]

170. boo-hoo

[Dept of Beer]

173. There is no boo-hoo involved.

Sorry to disappoint you.

[U4ikLefty]

184. yawn #2

[cui bono]

258. yawn #3

[MissDeeds]

74. Sadly true

My god, whoever thought a "Dem" president would even consider this? Seems I've been wondering that quite a bit in the last two years.



:grr:

[roxiejules]

113. And who thought a "Dem" president would oversee the demise

of the public schools and teacher's union?

[defendandprotect]

147. "Only Nixon could go to China" ... "We had to burn the village to save it" ... !!!

[MissDeeds]

230. That was particularly hard to take

I'm a former public school teacher, NEA member, and professor of education. I used to think the Democratic party was a friend of education; now I'm inclined to believe we're on our own.

[Fuddnik]

286. Probably the same ones who "reformed" welfare.

And financial regulation. And free trade agreements in the '90s.

[bvar22]

50. Oh Yes. He SURE Out Foxxed the Republicans.

After he adopted all their positions and put Social security and Medicare On the Table.
they had no place else to go!!!
Brilliant.
Beat the Republican by becoming MORE Republican than THEY are.

[MissDeeds]

79. +1

[man4allcats]

183. +1 He was slick, wasn't he?

I knew he might take a little getting used to, but I never figured him for this. Guess he showed me a thing or two!

[JoseGaspar]

300. He was always more Republican than they were...

The Republicans had no intention of going after Social Security. After the hit with the "Ryan Plan", they were afraid of Medicare, too. The Republicans wanted to smack discretionary spending, pay back some old debts, make noise for the Tease Party, force through some crazy shit and go away.

Forget putting it on the table. Who brought up Social Security in the first place? Who can't accept a debt ceiling agreement because it "doesn't address the deficit"? Who is after a "Grand" scheme?

How did Kent Conrad make a comeback?

How can Health-Care/Financial-Reform/Bush-Tax-Cuts Soap Operas be back in reruns ALREADY?

He is way past "tool"...

[TrollBuster9090]

98. Well, you at least have to give Cantor credit for sporting a new outfit to the negotiations

[pa28]

9. Did anybody actually believe that fairy tale?

Obama said he wanted cuts and he meant it. There was no brilliant gamesmanship or stunning feat of reverse psychology at work.

[Doctor_J]

13. Some did. I posted the True Believers Stages Of Acceptance

for the various presidential "chess maneuvers" like health care, Gitmo, wars, torture, etc. Here:

I. Are you going to believe the WSJ?
II. Are you going to believe the NYT?
III. Nothing's certain yet
IV. He had to cave in due to the prevailing political climate
V. What are you going to do, vote for Bachmann?

[taught_me_patience]

23. DU deniers are out in force today

stuck at III... claiming nothing's certain yet. The rest of us know the framework of the gang of six plan and it's pure shit.

[woo me with science]

28. It becomes surrealistic dark comedy at a certain point,

the ridiculous denials...

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.

And the chained CPI? I am sure we will be hearing that it increases the chocolate ration.

[markpkessinger]

56. That sums it up nicely. Thank you!! n/t

[SSDA]

119. Lmao. So true!

[Dept of Beer]

134. Is there a VI?

[defendandprotect]

149. A+ --

[Kall]

179. +1

[Confusious]

187. Are you going to believe what he does or what he says?

I for one, prefer to listen to what he says, and not look at what he does.

:sarcasm:

[FedUp_Queer]

311. A good friend of mine, still an Obama supporter...

Constantly is trying to convince me he's really worth it. All the time, I hear telling me of a speech heard him give or of what he said. It's astonishing to me that some otherwise very intelligent people just refuse to look at what he has done...to continue believing his speeches over their lying eyes.

[MessiahRp]

201. +1,000,000

That's it in a nutshell... though they've been good at blending those first two into, "Are you going to believe second hand/third party/anonymous source quotes?" and "So you'll believe these media outlets when they say something bad about Obama but not when they agree?"... they apply that last one to polls they like as well.

It's pretty routine and all they have to defend their guy, right or wrong, no matter what.

Rp

[myrna minx]

254. Wow - too true. n/t

[woo me with science]

264. Touche. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. He said he would reform 'entitlement' programs in order to reduce the deficit

and that was before his catfood commission. So no suprise here.

[Enthusiast]

217. No surprise at all.

The big TELL was when HE decided to cut FICA contributions. That gave him away for anyone willing to open their eyes.

[MisterP]

52. ya REALLY need to ask?

[shanti]

107. cuts, yeah...

there are way more important things to cut than SS and medicare! get real.

[Marr]

11. I am both Shocked and Awed.

Who could've anticipated that the multi-dimensional chess argument would turn out to be bullshit??

[Doctor_J]

14. I am awed, but he can no longer shock me.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dbonds]

17. There are some still defending it. And in full force today.

[woo me with science]

30. ...

[shanti]

109. they're probably young

and don't feel that they have a chance in hell of seeing any SS. i don't see any other reason why du'ers would buy that bullshit.

divide and conquer sure worked, didn't it!

[defendandprotect]

152. Do they know it will be end of Obama and probably end of Dem Party? Koch Bros will like it -- !!

[newspeak]

277. I believe once the MO is exposed, both parties

influenced by corporate powers, then we can either take back our party or form the labor party. It seems after the supreme court ruling, they no longer need us, they get their pay from international corporations who could give a damn about this country or its' people. Just serving their profit interest, that's all that counts.

Because we have reached such a disparity in this country between the rich/poor, it seems what little assets we have left should be pulled to form our own corporation-a corporation for and by the people. We need a major sounding board, a major media outlet to just state the facts with real debates.

The only ones who are going to be concerned if grandma has food and shelter, if children have proper education and if food is fit to eat, will be the populace. I don't know, it just seems that we, as a group, need to pull everything we have together and head these cretins off at the pass or many americans are going to be hurting more than they are now.

[defendandprotect]

305. Third parties are absolutely blocked by the two party "duopoly" ...

And presume if they opened those gates, they'd flood the system with so many parties

that any "win" would be fragmented -- but I would try for it.


Liberal voters are a huge voting bloc -- with many over decades having stayed home

because they know the politicians are not talking to their interests or working for

them. A populist will bring them out --

Now all we need to do is find another FDR -- !!

And take the party back -- !!

But seems to me that if the party could be taken back that liberals in Dem Party would

have risen to do that -- !!

Rather, I think that 20 years of Koch Bros funded DLC infiltration of the party,

influencing the party's agenda and its candidates, means that we probably have more

Koch Bros than Dem Party left in the party!



But we all need to keep on talking about this -- and decide on something to do in 2012 --

2016 will be too late for Social Security and Medicare -- and they are not going to

stop there, either --

I'm sure you know that -- !!


:(

[EFerrari]

18. If this administration gave a damn about the public

it would have done something about jobs and foreclosures in two and a half years. I think it's that simple. I don't expect them to turn into some other administration at this late date.

[myrna minx]

20. I'm beyond disgusted. n/t

[Fuzz]

21. Lawrence O'Donnel?

[Pryderi]

64. Yeah. I'm waiting to see if he'll be willing to eat crow.

[xchrom]

25. Rope-a-dope a can of cat food for seniors. Nt

[ClarkUSA]

27. What exactly are you complaining about given there's not a single thing agreed upon in a final bill?

[woo me with science]

29. You're HERE!

What took you so long?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

51. That's all you've got left, isn't it.

I do have a question, though...

I am curious when the shift will happen. When will you shift from denying cuts to Medicare and SS will happen, to actually defending them as part of the best possible deal we could get?

Do you start defending this abomination right on the day it is passed? Or do you start rationalizing it a few days beforehand, to get people used to the idea?

It just seems such a big leap ahead. I am curious about how it will be handled.

Or do you actually want to come out now and affirm that you will never, ever justify this sort of attack on the most vulnerable among us from a supposedly "Democratic" President?

*
*
*
*
*

....I didn't think so.

[MissDeeds]

81. Long briefing?

[rhett o rick]

291. Apparently you dont have him on ignore. Might try it. nm

[Doctor_J]

34. Since he's already agreed to cut SS benefits, any further "negotiation"

will no doubt move the final "bipartisan" bill farther from my preference, not closer to it.

[ClarkUSA]

43. Prove it. I'd like a full quote from Pres. Obama and a credible source link.

[Bragi]

53. Want an exact quote? No problem.

Here it is:

Speaking to reporters before the dinner, the President said he's "already agreed to cut SS benefits, so any further negotiation would move the final "bipartisan" bill farther from the preferences of Doctor_J, not closer. Americans will just have to accept that."

http://www.crediblenewshouse.com/hellokitty/file.htm

[polmaven]

72. Well, I guess there is just no disputing

that fact. There is the quote right there!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[TrollBuster9090]

92. I think the quote about Elizabeth Warren refusing to accept a recess appointment is in there, too.

It's a good article, that one.

[whathehell]

123. He actually said "Americans are just going to have to accept that"?

He thinks so, huh?

He may just be surprised at what "Americans have to accept".

We don't have to accept HIS rank betrayal...Primary his ass!

Even if a repuke wins...I can't see how it could be that

much different, seriously...I'd be willing to do it

if he cuts SS and Medicare...There IS no democratic

party after that, especially since he won't even support Labor.

[TrollBuster9090]

204. No, he didn't say that. It's a fake/joke quote.

A pretty good one, too.

[emulatorloo]

268. Click the link = "Domain not found." Obama didn't say that. It was a

Joke. Too many people are way too eager to believe that sort of fabricated stuff.

[whathehell]

275. Well, someone else just said the same thing...Nonetheless,

I don't think of it as a big "stretch" considering

what he's been ballsy enough to suggest cuts to

Medicare and the "Third Rail".

[emulatorloo]

265. Excellent link.

Lol

[jtown1123]

261. Here's a nice summary of that

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/07/19/obama-wants-to-cut-medicare-and-social-security-benefits/

[SkyDaddy7]

38. Folks here will complain about Obama regardless...

They want Obama to adopt the Ryan Plan most of all so they can really complain...Or at least that is what it seems like. Just want Obama to give them something to be mad about because whether he does or not they are going to be mad! That is 100% FO SHO!

[ClarkUSA]

44. You know it. Some people feel bereft without outrage fuelling there every word.

On the other hand, intellectually honest Obama supporters are a much more knowledgable demographic. Furthermore, we make up a huge majority of the President's supportive base and he knows it.

:fistbump:

[SkyDaddy7]

76. Thanks for all the input you do here on DU and...

Supporting the President & doing your best to unwind the spin that goes on around here! Sometimes I wonder if this is a Republican forum with all the anger & especially the hurricane like spin that is used to attack our President.

I am sure you saw the new Gallup Poll posted that said 69% of Democrats want a Compromise on the deficit/debt reduction even if it is a deal you do not fully agree with. HHmmm? So, that means the noise here on DU is the fringe & not the majority like many here like to think.

66% of all Americans say YES to compromise & 57% of Republicans do as well...JUST LIKE OBAMA TOLD THE REPUBLICANS AMERICANS ARE ON HIS SIDE NOT THEIRS...We will see what happens.

Thanks! :toast: :hi:

[neoralme]

96. You are crazy as a lune. Obama is single-handedly destroying the

two most important accomplishments in Democratic history. And the payback will be severe. Wait until the 69% in your pretend poll are eating Simpson-Bowles catfood for dinner. The first dish was served yesterday.

[Jefferson23]

118. LOL.

Republican spin from Bernie?


Bernie Sanders: We must make it absolutely clear to President Obama and the Dem's and Rep.Leadership
https://services.myngp.com/ngponlineservices/petition.aspx?X=Ja5OPsDYzMY=

[Mimosa]

195. You're disingenuous.

Americans are WORN OUT, scared and want an end to the GAMES. You should know poll results depend on how questions are phrased.

You sound awfully out of touch with 'Americans'. Most are very angry. SAD.

[rhett o rick]

290. You call DU'ers "the fringe" like that's a bad thing. What does the "fringe" want that you disagree

with?

[newspeak]

287. If SS gets cut, I have family members on SS

and a very small pension-they can hardly make ends meet as it is and they own their own houses, paid for from years of laboring. Why in heaven's name should they sacrifice when the wealthy who use more of our resources and military for their corporate interest, do not sacrifice enough?

[bdamomma]

306. just remember what George Carlin said

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJeFrqBJF6E

boy I wish he was still around he would say TOLD YOU SO!!

[green917]

325. intellectually honest?

Are you kidding me? There's nothing either intellectual or honest about blindly supporting a man who tells you 1 thing and does another:

"I think one of the options should be a public insurance option. (Loud cheers) Let me clear. It would only be an option, nobody would be forced to choose it. No one with insurance affected by it. But what it would do is provide more choice and more competition. It would keep pressure on private insurers to keep the policies affordable, to treat their customers better. I mean think about it. It's the same way the public colleges and universities provide additional choice and competition to students. That doesn't inhibit private colleges and universities from thriving out there. The same should be true on the health care front. Minnesota I have said I'm open to different ideas on how to set this up we're going to set this up but I'm not going to back down on the basic principle that if Americans can't find affordable coverage we're going to provide you a choice."

"To overcome extremism, we must also be vigilant in upholding the values our troops defend – because there is no force in the world more powerful than the example of America. That is why I have ordered the closing of the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, and will seek swift and certain justice for captured terrorists – because living our values doesn’t make us weaker, it makes us safer and it makes us stronger."

I could, frankly go on and on and on and on. It's time to face the fact that the idea of "hope" and "change we can believe in" that this man and his administration sold us was a lie...a carefully constructed marketing ploy to hoodwink the American people into believing that we still have some stake in what happens in this nation's political sphere. He sold us for our votes so he and all of the other vampires on the hill could continue to steal our money and funnel it upwards into the only class of people that really matters within the beltway...the ones who write 6 figure checks!

[fascisthunter]

77. yuh, that's what it must be...delusional if you really think that

[shellgame26]

202. you got it!

The spinning exploding head syndrome is not unique to the T party. Plenty of knee-jerk reactionaries here..

[no limit]

45. I ask you this everytime you post in a thread like this. I never get a answer from you

let me try again.

If Obama agrees to raise the retirement age what will you think of that? Will you still support him?

[ClarkUSA]

46. I'm not interested in gotcha hypotheticals. Ask me when that language is in the final bill...

... which has not been agreed to yet, much less has been written, although it seems these salient facts are no obstacle to self-inflicted angst.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[markpkessinger]

54. This ain't exactly my first rodeo . . .

. . . I've been around long enough that I believe I can see pretty accurately where this is headed. And I believe that those who don't see it are either blind or are intentionally averting their eyes. You disagree. So be it.

[ClarkUSA]

57. As his repeal of DADT and now soon-to-be DOMA should tell you, Pres. Obama is Bubba's antithesis...

... in so many ways, so I'm not sure what "history" you're referrring to. During this budget battle, he hasn't triangulated nor has he"caved" to Republican demands as many said he would. In fact, he has Republicans on the defensive, as reading any political analysis will tell you.

Self-inflicted angst amuses me, as it is so predictably without a shred of supporting evidence.

[bowens43]

88. You really do live in a fantasy world.....

maybe if you would stop worshiping at the alter of Obama long enough to look around and what is actually happening you could get back in touch with reality.....

[rhett o rick]

297. Is ignored stirring up trouble again. I would alert but have him on ignore. nm

[Jackpine Radical]

91. Ending DADT and DOMA are safe positions.

They don't cost Corporate America anything, so they don't give a shit what he does about them. Since he's not gonna get any Teabagger votes no matter what he does, he might as well go for these and pass himself off as a liberal.

[TrollBuster9090]

108. True, but the Fair Pay Act, Credit Card bill of rights, Dodd-Frank, creation of CFPB and Health

Health Care bill of rights, forcing HMOs to accept pre-existing conditions sure as hell DID cost corporate america something.

Give the man his props. Despite not being a real progressive, he's passed more progressive legislation than any president since LBJ.

The Fair Pay Act
The Credit Card holder's bill of rights
The creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform
Forcing British Petroleum to pony up a TWENTY BILLION DOLLAR TRUST FUND for damages to the Gulf IN ADVANCE.
Repealing DODT
and
Passing the Affordable Health Care Act which not only forbids HMOs from dropping people, or refusing them because of pre-existing conditions, but also puts limits on the amounts they can raise premiums and legislates the amounts they must spend on services vs. profits...

Holy cow, man..let's put this in perspective. OBAMA HAS KICKED CORPORATE AMERICA IN THE BALLS MORE TIMES THAN JIMMY CARTER.

Yes, he picks his battles. (ie-trying to play PHARMACEUTICAL companies off against HMOs by cutting a special deal. Dumping the Public Option...etc.)
But, in spite of making a number of strategic retreats, he's had an AMAZING degree of success when you take the realities of the political world into account.

[bahrbearian]

120. The List, The List

[Lasher]

130. Don't forget, he got his girls a dog.

For that, PolitiFact gave him credit for a Promise Kept on their Obamameter. They don't bother to mention his promise to renegotiate NAFTA though. Not important enough, I guess.

[TrollBuster9090]

138. Trust me, if he HADN'T gotten the girls a dog there would be progressives withdrawing support

and calling him a traitor to the cause and a corporate sell out.

Not that I'm complaining. As I said, the progressives need to make a HELL OF A LOT MORE NOISE about not supporting Obama if he compromises with Republicans. It's the only way to get the Overton Window back to where it belongs.

(But in private, I have to give the guy credit for an INCREDIBLE degree of success, and some pretty top notch political skills.)

[Lasher]

153. I'll give him credit for getting bin Laden.

Everything else has been as meaningless as getting his daughters a dog, milquetoast 'bipartisanship' compromises, or absolute sellouts. His 'success' can hardly be described as incredible, unless your ideals are radically different from mine. And he must have kept those top notch political skills well disguised when he let the GOP Senate minority jerk him around for two mostly wasted years.

[TrollBuster9090]

211. I'm not really sure what you expected to happen, given that you can't pass ANYTHING without 60 votes

in the Senate. And as long as the Republicans decided to adopt a scorched earth, party before country policy to defeating the democrats by opposing everything they tried to do, it means that even a 58 vote democratic majority in the (plus Leiberman and Sanders) can be sunk by one or two nervous blue dog democrats. (ie-Baucus, Nelson and Landrieu.) That's exactly what happened.

Under those circumstances, it's next to impossible to do ANYTHING, watered down or not. Which is why I'm surprised and pleased Obama and the 111th Congress managed to get done as much as they did.

[Divernan]

240. I detect some repressed self-hatred in your handle!

[Lasher]

263. Yet Republicans manage to get the Bush tax cuts extended while in the minority.

They must be magic.

[emulatorloo]

269. Are you forgetting the 2010 elections? That was the political context then

Revisionist history is not cool

[Lasher]

274. The context was, Senate Republicans were in the minority just as I said.

Before and after the 2010 elections. Yet Obama took the initiative to extend the tax cuts. I am tempted to call it the biggest political blunder ever, but in my opinion it happened because Obama wanted it. And now, we're paying for it on the backs of the elderly and the disabled, with Republicans refusing to give back even one nickel of the tax cuts Obama gave them in December. And as if that isn't enough, the gang of six sellout includes even more tax cuts - with a Senate still controlled by Democrats and with a Democratic President in the White House.

'Revisionist history' is a familiar cliche, often mindlessly bantered about without any relevance whatever to the discussion at hand.

[TrollBuster9090]

316. They traded extending the Bush tax cuts for repealing DODT and extending unemployment benefits

during the lame duck session of Congress right after the election. Frankly, I was surprised the Democrats managed to negotiate BOTH extending unemployment benefits AND repealing DODT in exchange for just the one concession from the Republicans. And by doing so they exploited a wedge issue for the 2012 election. Namely that Republicans claim to support values voters by opposing gays in the military, and yet they were willing to throw the values voters under the bus and repeal DODT in order to protect tax cuts for plutocrats, who are the part of their base they REALLY care about. I thought it was a pretty sweet move.

[Lasher]

330. Good Lord, you think that was a sweet deal?

Do you have any idea what impact the Bush tax cuts and the Obama extension have had on our deficits? Do you understand what measures are being taken to reduce our deficits? These wasteful and polarizing tax cuts are going to be sustained on the backs of the elderly and the disabled. This is a direct result of Obama's December capitulation. And you call that a sweet deal? That's just disgusting.

[defendandprotect]

165. Right .. 'cause MEDICARE FOR ALL, Social Security, Medicare are same thing -- !!!

Not to mention Wiretapping, Patriot Act -- Tax cuts for rich --

On and on -- on and on -- you know the song!

If Obama got his daughters a dog -- nothing else should matter!!

[defendandprotect]

164. Are his three new trade agreements on the list -- ???

[Lasher]

175. No, but they are mentioned.

He promised to include environmental and labor standards in new trade agreements, but getting these three free trade agreements is not included as a promise.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/8/include-environmental-and-labor-standards-in-trade/

I know what you're saying. Promising to pimp even more free trade agreements is like promising to kick US workers in the nuts. I just wanted to be concise.

What a screwed up country we have become! Our president shows great concern for labor standards in other countries, while he negotiates even more neliberal free trade agreements that will surely disadvantage workers in his own country. And it's a Democratic president!

[defendandprotect]

182. Clinton's trade agreeements should be overturned --- not much that should be happening ....

is happening -- !!

Just the reverse -- :(

[TrollBuster9090]

139. Flakey Foont wrote it all out for me.

I was too busy groping Devil Woman.

[defendandprotect]

162. Are you kidding ...? Koch/DLC Rahm "crowed" about how business should be GRATEFUL to Obama --!!!

Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:03 AM

”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18FE-70B2-A835FE1E7FA8D74C


And if that doesn't make you sick to your stomach -- nothing will !!


:nuke:

[Kall]

185. Yep. Old news, though...

This stuff was being said as Joe Biden was going around just after Recovery Summer #1, lecturing people to get out and reward this clown car.

Apparently Recovery Summer #2 involved cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Shame it wasn't in the midterm campaign, I bet it really would have juiced Democratic turnout even more than it already was...

[defendandprotect]

188. It would be "old news" only if Obama undid all of those things -- !!

Certainly voters in 2010 had gotten the message -- !!

Four more years of this?


:nuke:

[Kall]

216. I just meant that it took place in 2010

Wasn't dismissing it. The behaviour certainly hasn't changed.

[defendandprotect]

222. Understand -- and it is certainly still negatively effecting the country and will continue to ...

Betrayal on universal health care --

Not amending trade agreements -- and 3 new ones now -- more jobs will be gone --

Attacks on public education -- teachers -- unions -- across the country --

Bailing out criminal capitalism and making it wealthier with taxpayer bailouts and Fed 0% loans --

Billions in the stimulus which went to corporations -- not to the public's benefit --

No real re-regulation of Wall Street and capitalism leaving us open to a REPEAT of all this -- !!


That's a great deal for the nation to handle and cope with --

a whopping new level of Shock & Awe -- !!




:hi:

[TrollBuster9090]

207. Anything you have to say about third-way Rahm you don't have to justify to me.

There were some good left-overs from the Clinton Administration and there were some bad. He was the worst.

He's RIGHT of course. Business SHOULD be grateful to Obama. But he's also stupid to ever think they would be. Obama just let them steal from middle class Americans, they said "yeah, thanks...whatever" and went back to donating money to get the party elected that will let them steal the safe AND the family jewelry.

Rahm wasn't a good choice, and neither is the entire DNC. I think Obama should have chosen Howard Dean as his Chief of Staff. Either Dean, or (on the outside) Bill Richardson.

[defendandprotect]

223. You actually think that Obama didn't know WHO he was choosing in Koch Bros DLC Rahm????

Wow --


:rofl:

[TrollBuster9090]

321. No, I just think both Clinton and Obama overestimated his value.

He's the Donald Rumsfeld/ Dick Cheney/ Paul Wolfowitz of the Democratic party. ie-an empty suit with an impressive resume and no real talent.

And now that he's Mayor of Chicago he's finally shown the true depth of his contempt for the working class. He kept it pretty well hidden.

[Confusious]

191. Seriously, some of those bills are weak

Consumer Financial Protection Bureau: being gutted by the Republicans as we speak. So scared won't even nominate warren.
Dodd-frank: Weak, weak, weak. Didn't fix shit.
British petroleum only paid 20 billion dollars? That's probably less then a tenth of what's needed.

Affordable care act. We HAVE to buy outrageously priced insurance.

Please. Weak, weak, weak, Obama blinked again. Big, Big surprise.

[MNBrewer]

129. No way will DOMA repeal be soon

[HERVEPA]

313. DOMA not being repealed.

Bill has little chance in Senate and none in the House. Just for show.
Only way to get rid of it is judicially, which is not possible with this set of Supremes.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TrollBuster9090]

111. Let me guess: you voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 because Al Gore was a corporate whore?

Thought so.

[shellgame26]

203. lol

:thumbsup:

[LooseWilly]

225. I did.

And I'd do it again. ;)

The fact that this seems to be a touchy subject for you suggests to me that you maybe ought to work less on trying to justify corporate whoredom among Democratic Party candidates and instead turn your self-satisfied pragmatic powers-of-persuasion upon Democratic Party candidates themselves in order to convince them to be less-corporate-whorey... so as to avoid a Nader repeat.

Or maybe you think corporate whoredom is alright as long as one wears a "D" in place of an alligator on one's polo-whore shirts?...

[TrollBuster9090]

323. I'm not touchy on the subject, I just see two problems.

1. The problem with politics in general is the influence of corporate money. Politicians in both parties are bought by corporations and plutocrats. It's exactly analogous to steroids in professional sports, or even the Olympics. All sides agree it's bad, but nobody wants to be the first to stop using them. All politics would fall in line with the aims of the people if corporate money were excluded from politics.

a) That is not going to happen until the composition of the Supreme Court changes.
b) The composition of the supreme court is not going to change until one of the five conservative activist judges retires and is replaced by a liberal or centrist.
c) A retiring conservative is not going to be replaced by a liberal/centrist unless there is a Democratic president to nominate one.
d) Despite all his flaws, chopping Obama off at the knees is a perfect way to guarantee a Republican majority in both chambers of Congress, and a Republican in the White House who's going to nominate more conservative activists to the Supreme Court.
e) Supreme Court Justices are appointed FOR LIFE. Appointing MORE conservatives is a sure fire way to fuck up the country for GENERATIONS TO COME.


2. The problem with the Democratic party in general is that, unlike the Republicans, they're constantly cutting off their nose to spite their face. Until the rise of the Tea Party, we've never seen Republicans doing that. As stupid as they are, they're realistic enough to realize that getting SOME of what they want is better than getting NONE of it. And they realize that getting people elected who only half-heartedly support their cause, and are vapid in their defense of it is a lot better than allowing people to be elected who will work three shifts to DESTROY their cause.

[pmorlan1]

237. I voted for Gore

I voted for Gore, Kerry and Obama. I worked as a moderator on the Kerry website and traveled to Ohio to campaign but I damn sure won't vote for Obama again. I'd rather have a Republican president so at least there will be an opposition party to Republican policies. There is NO way I would support the treachery of this President. He is the worst Democratic president in my lifetime and no amount of BS spin is going to change my view.

[TrollBuster9090]

320. Worst Democratic President in your lifetime? So you were born in 2000?

And you forgot Bill Clinton gutting welfare and converting it to workfare, and signing NAFTA? You forgot Clinton allowing Phil Gramm to gut the funding for the IRS, forcing them to lay off all the auditors for high income tax returns, giving the plutocrats a free ride on income taxes. (Estimates of around 300 billion in tax lost every year from that.) Forgot BIll Clinton signing the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act which facilitated the financial meltdown of 2008?

Don't get me wrong, I thought Clinton did a good job given what he had to work with. (ie-a House lead by Newt Gingrich.) And I think Obama is doing a good job given what he has to work with, and given the fact that he had no leverage even with the Senators from his own party for the first year of his Administration. Even Ted Kennedy admitted that when he was first elected the Democratic Senators didn't know whether to stand up when he entered the room or send him out for coffee.

[green917]

326. +1,000,000,000 n/t

[Hawkowl]

314. Way to win hearts and minds

You are going to insult people into voting for your corporate whore? How'd that work for the midterms? :rofl:

[TrollBuster9090]

318. So, you only saw the one insult there, did you? :)

[A Simple Game]

85. III n/t

[neoralme]

87. Time to change your batteries.

[Dept of Beer]

136. Once it has all been agreed to what will your

talking points be then?

Bookmarking.

My post may be deleted, but not what was said.

[cui bono]

252. Dude, you need to take your blinders off. And pay attention.

Did you not hear The Big O say he likes the Gang of 6's plan?

[FedUp_Queer]

312. Seriously. How much is the administration paying you?

Like the rising of the sun, anything critical of Obama, and there you are. I get people defending him, I guess. However, it's always the same talking points no matter the subject...at least it seems that way to me. (I'm waiting for the "all you do is complain" epithet or "you're just here to criticize the president"...so, let 'er rip.) However, after you have hurled your screed at me, I would like to know your reasons for always seeming to show up and to tell people that what is happening is not really what's happening or isn't what really will happen. It's always the same. That's all I'm saying.

[sendero]

337. Exactly.q

.... excuses excuses and more excuses. "He hasn't twisted his dick off in your ass yet, so he might pull out" type of bullshit.

It's frankly sickening.

[Recursion]

31. What's the rope-a-dope here?

The House will pass what it will pass; not much he can do about it or pretends to be able to do about it.

[Obamanaut]

32. I'm sure there are a few. Me, I'm hoping for another 'screen name change amnesty'

so I can go back to the original.

In a moment of euphoric 'change I could believe in' during the last amnesty, I changed it.

[dbonds]

35. If you look at it right it says Obama Not

[Bake]

267. Don't feel too badly.

I believed it too. Cried for joy on election night. Thought we were entering the 21st Century. And this wasn't my first rodeo, either.

I won't shed another tear, though. At least I didn't change my DU name.

:hi:

Bake

[fascisthunter]

36. My Mother works in a Building for the Elderly....

he just about lost the majority of folks living there.

[Doctor_J]

42. He could have tied "Seniors' subsistence cuts" to Ryan and the whole GOP

after Ryan's disastrous plan was made public. could have gained back dozens of Congressional seats on that issue alone next year. Instead he hems, haws, and ends up adopting a Republican plan. What a train wreck.

[shanti]

110. believe it

if this garbage passes and obama signs off on it, he's DONE.

[TrollBuster9090]

156. Then tell them to get a pair of scissors and prepare to start clipping Ryan's Medicare Coupons.

Not to mention saving a lot of dough to plug the doughnut hole that the GOP will re-open if they win in 2012. And better get them a copy of "The Stock Market for Dummies," too, because they'll probably be handling their own "personalized" Social Security investments by 2014.

Again, don't get me wrong. It's RIGHT to criticize Obama for not being vocal enough in his defense of Medicare and Social Security. But on voting day this needs to be kept in perspective.

[KittyWampus]

39. LOL! Obama didn't agree to anything. He said the negotiations were heading in the right direction.

[Skittles]

47. I would prefer negotations heading in the LEFT direction

[KittyWampus]

59. This ideal isn't happening. Period. Reid & Durbin just said there's not enough time.

[defendandprotect]

190. We had best make sure Obama doesn't get another crack at Social Security/Medicare ...!!

Clearly we don't need four more years of this!!

[MissDeeds]

86. Exactly

But when the going gets tough, he goes to the right.

[Skittles]

221. f***

he's been sucking rightwing dick since day one and I am SICK of it

[sabrina 1]

55. That's what we're afraid of!

[Skittles]

60. I hear you

if Obama's happy with it, it probably stinks

[defendandprotect]

192. +1 --

[defendandprotect]

189. Obama cut COLA's, gave us the Cat Food Commission and Simpson ....

In fact, he gave us Simpson's all over government from first day after

election -- !!

[cui bono]

259. Oh! Well... now I see how hilarious it all is. LOL!

Come on everybody... LOL now!

[rhett o rick]

296. Can you spell rhetoric? nm

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tnlefty]

48. Nope.

:kick:

[StarburstClock]

49. Lots of blinded partisans everywhere, proud to be stupid and blind

They will only care when something happens to them as per twentieth century brainwashing propaganda techniques dictate, which they've fallen for completely.

[fascisthunter]

63. yup... they should take a look at our current situation and congratulate themselves

[ProSense]

58. Not me

I'm jumping ship based on the declarations that he has caved. Why wait for details of the plan?

The smart people know that details are for suckers!!!

[TBF]

67. I know you're really good with blue ink and all, but I hope the campaign also teachs you to read -

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/20/us/politics/20fiscal.html?ref=global-home

The large attendance — 47 senators, including 23 Republicans — and the positive reactions inside and outside the meeting surprised even the six senators who produced the package. It would make deep spending cuts over time in domestic and military programs, including Medicare and Medicaid, and raise new revenues from closing myriad tax breaks and loopholes, while lowering tax rates across the board – much like last year’s plan from Mr. Obama’s fiscal commission.

[sabrina 1]

71. Why is Social Security even being mentioned

as part of any discussion on the Deficit? Why doesn't the President simply state that SS contributed NOTHING to the Deficit, nor would cuts to SS do anything to lower the Deficit, that it is a totally separate fund that belongs to the American people and that he as President will not allow anyone to attempt to tie the two together? Why does he keep tying them together?

I keep asking people to explain that, but so far, I can't seem to get an answer.

[Still Waters]

75. Amen! Why did SS get linked to this?

[ProSense]

90. "Why doesn't the President simply state that SS contributed NOTHING to the Deficit" Here

in his own words.

[sabrina 1]

102. That makes no sense at all. On the one hand he admits it has

zero to do with the deficit, but then goes on to say that he will include in the deficit talks in order to protect it. That is like saying I will jump into a lion's den in order to strengthen my ability to jump.

Why is it in this discussion at all? It cannot be dealt with, does not NEED to be 'strengthened' at this point, it is not in any danger, it has zero to do with the deficit, which he KNOWS, so why has he not firmly stated to the far right morons he placed on his Deficit Commission and elsewhere, 'forget about SS. It has no place in these discussions, YOU know it and I don't want to hear it mentioned again'.

Sorry, but I could strengthen my jumping ability far more safely than practicing it in a lion's den.

The fact that he knows there is zero relationship between the two makes it all the more inconceivable that he would continue to tie the two together in his speeches.

[TrollBuster9090]

143. Good link! I wonder why nobody pays attention to what he actually says?

[sabrina 1]

157. Because what he says and what he does are two different things.

Maybe YOU can explain, given he has admitted that SS has zero to do with creating the deficit, why he continues to link the two instead of stating clearly that SS is OFF THE TABLE in any discussions about the deficit?? By even mentioning the two together, he is giving the impression that there is a connection. Why is he doing that?

[TrollBuster9090]

324. Because he's trying to appear flexible to win undecided votes.

The only reason Obama won the 2008 election is because he was supported not only by the Democratic base, but also by the undecided voters who broke 2/3 for Obama in 2008. The undecideds then broke 2/3 for the Republicans in the 2010 elections and you saw what happened. Unless Obama can create THE PERCEPTION that he's moderate and flexible, rather than being a partisan hack, he's not going to win the undecided/independent voters in 2012. And, unless you want to see two or three more activist conservatives appointed to the Supreme Court by a Republican, you should be interested in making sure Obama gets re-elected. I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of another three Roberts' being appointed to the Supreme Court FOR LIFE. Or three more Alitos, or three more Scalias.

No thanks. For all his flaws, I'd rather put up with Obama for 8 years than risk having a conservative activist, corporate whoring Supreme Court overturning civil rights legislation FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS.


So, Obama can play at trying to capture undecided/independent voters by appearing to be "flexible" on things that Democrats are not (and should not be) normally flexible on. Republicans can bellow about NO NEW TAXES to please their base, and Democratic Senators and Congressmen can and must bellow about NO CUTS TO SS and MEDICARE to make sure the country remembers who created and WHO DEFENDS those programs, leaving Obama to appear to moderate "both sides." But whether or not he's a traitor to the Democratic cause remains to be seen. Yes, progressives can and MUST be inflexible about this. It actually helps Obama's efforts to appear to be a triangulator, which the moderates love...but I'm not one to assume he's a traitor to the cause until he actually betrays the cause.

So far he's succeeding with the image crafting game. Opinion polls show the majority of Americans want the national debt reduced through a combination of spending cuts and tax increases. Obama and Biden have shown they're flexible on both, while the Republicans walked out on the negotiations because they refused to eliminate tax loopholes for corporate jets. That was a perfect spin moment. One that will boost the "Republicans are the party of plutocrats" narrative for a long time.

Yes, it's true that SS has nothing to do with the debt, but many people don't realize that. However, most people realize that SS and Medicare are sacred cows for the Democratic party. So, Obama wins if he appears to be flexible on Democratic sacred cows while Republicans are not flexible on their own sacred cow. So, simply by talking about SS in the context of the national debt, Obama wins, even though SS has nothing to do with it.

About modifications to SS...they've already happened. Modifications to the way it's administered have been happening for the last 40 years, and have been discussed for that long. You've heard that the retirement age has been raised to 67. That was done in 1985 by House Democrats. It was designed to kick in 25 years down the road. Other changes that have been discussed by PROGRESSIVES are the idea of means testing. ie-cutting SS benefits for retired millionaires who don't need them in order to give MORE to retired poor people who can't live on the amount provided. Not a cut, but a re-distribution. I don't see why Bill Gates will be getting a check for $1200/mo that he doesn't need while some other poor bastard is actually forced to LIVE on $1200. Why not give both checks to the poor guy? To exclude all modifications to SS would be foolish.

About "cuts" to Medicare. Well, Obama already cut 500 billion from it, and it was a GOOD thing. He eliminated 500 billion in WASTE from Medicare Advantage, and used the savings to close the prescription drug doughnut hole. Not all cuts are bad if they're linked to progressive re-distribution.

So, if Obama talks about cuts to SS and Medicare being on the table, and in the final analysis they turn out to be re-distributive cuts I'd support it, and he also gains the advantage of appearing flexible. If they turned out to be across the board cuts, I wouldn't support him.

[sabrina 1]

348. Sounds like a lot of game-playing to me. And while I know

if someone wants to win a national election they have to appeal to more than their base. However while you say, correctly, that he could not have won without Independents, which is true, he would not have had a chance without Progressives. And many of those Independents have now abandoned him, leading one to believe that they were 'left' of center and are unhappy with his rightleaning policies.

However, I really have lost interest in the presidential race, the only difference it might make to us is SC nominations, as you point out.

I am now only really interested in Congress. That is where the people have some chance of influencing what happens to this country.

Clearly the WH is influenced much more by corporate interests no matter who is there, this is what we have learned. So, what is needed is a strong progressive Congress which will make the WH irrelevant, unless it's occupied by a Progressive also.

As for his games re SS, who is trying to impress with that? A vast majority of Americans do not want SS touched at all. So, if it's voters, then he's wrong to assume he has to look 'flexible' on that issue. Flexible will lose him many democraphics on an issue he needs to be the strongest on.


You know, people are sick of these games and want to hear straight talk. He should state clearly that the Republicans can throw temper tantrums all they want, but SS is not up for grabs and the American people agree with that.

Just take it off the table! He would have so much support if he just did that. But I am afraid it is not the people he cares about influencing, which is why he will not do it.

[green917]

327. To answer your question as succinctly as possible...

because he WANTS it on the table! Because that's what his good friends (and contributors) at Goldmann Sachs told him to do/say!

I don't understand why the clap louder coalition can't seem to fathom why we would have so much of an issue with the dichotomy that is the absolute chasm between what this man has said and what he has done! Boggles my mind!

[U4ikLefty]

168. I will veto any bill that......

[neverforget]

146. Good thing he put it on the table to strengthen it with the Republicans

forever looking to kill it. He gave them a hostage when he admits it doesn't add the deficit.

[grahamhgreen]

266. Yet, during his press conference he said SS DOES drive the defecit,

it's just not he PRIMARY driver. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x599482#599670

The truth is, it does not contribute ONE NICKEL to the deficit.

[Dept of Beer]

137. Goodbye then.

[Zenlitened]

62. I think a lot of people use that phrase without really knowing what it means. - n/t

[Pryderi]

66. Muhammed Ali.

[Zenlitened]

68. Ali cleverly let Foreman win with a TKO, right? - n/t

[Pryderi]

69. Just like Lawrence O'Donnell said. n/t

[Pryderi]

65. you mean the "dopey rope trick", right?

[Marnie]

70. It bad enough the the Republicans are playing Lucy

to Obama's Charlie Brown.

Obama is playing Lucy to his own voters.

Lucy is not a very nice person, who, among other things, repeatedly betrays the trust of a person who is very nice. And She does so while blaming the victim for being so nice as to be foolish enough to trust to her word.

I wasn't that crazy about Obama in the first place now I really do not like or trust him. And his analogy of Lincoln maintain the enslavement of human beings in the North while freeing those of the South as a great piece of political logic makes me sick to my stomach.
It is much the same logic as Bush used to torture. As Salem used to burn witches.

Obama accepted Lincoln's logic that an evil is acceptable if it allows one to reach a goal that one thinks is to the greater good of some one or thing, other than those who suffer the evil.

[0rganism]

193. It's trickle-down Lucy!

Where can Obama voters pass our Lucy? Hmm... maybe our kids would like some too.

[Ikonoklast]

73. FUD.

[Forkboy]

78. Charlie tango teakettle barbeque.

[bowens43]

80. We who worked to get him elected are the dopes.......

[defendandprotect]

194. Stick together -- we are a huge liberal voting bloc -- we have options --

Othewise we're going to have four more years of this destruction of

Dem Party and Social Security/Medicare --

2016 will be too late to save Social Security/Medicare --

[Danger Mouse]

82. It''s 20-dimensional chess, haven't you heard?

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

196. Keep giving leadership to "organizing" for other options in 2012 ... 2016 will be too late ..!!

[TrollBuster9090]

89. Let's put this in perspective. The only "dopes" were those who actually believed Obama is a liberal

He's not. He's center-right. Nobody knew that better than real progressives. Thus, the only dopes who believed he was actually a liberal were Republicans and conservatives.

However, having said that, the only people here who've been ROPED are the REAL progressives who didn't make enough noise to start pushing the Overton Window back to the real political center of the country. The Democratic progressive caucus needs to make a hell of a lot more noise, and so do we.

Having said THAT, it IS still to early to tell what deal (if any) will me made. Obama sometimes surprises me. He surprised me by losing the 2010 mid-terms so badly, but then surprised me again by getting Congress to repeal Don't-ask-don't-tell during the lame duck session that followed. Yeah, they traded DODT AND an extension of unemployment benefits for an extension of the Bush tax cuts, but I was surprised the GOP didn't actually succeed in negotiating an extension of the tax cuts in exchange for ONLY the extension in benefits. I didn't think he and the Dems would be able to negotiate DODT in ADDITION to the unemployment benefits, but is so doing, they also managed to split a wedge between the Republican economic royalists and the values voters which can be exploited in 2012.

[SHRED]

93. Obama said today it was a "balanced" approach but...

...that he and his staff had "not read the details".

WTF is going on here?
:shrug:

[Dawgs]

101. They know exactly what's in it, but haven't worked out how to spin it yet.

In other words, we're not going to like it.

[Dept of Beer]

140. What is balanced is the shared sacrifice of the

Ds and Rs to gut the rest of Us.

[Palmer Eldritch]

94. The term "Catfood Commission" is used by those who prefer buzzwords to actual thought.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

97. Buzzwords like "Shared Sacrifice" and "compromise"?

[Palmer Eldritch]

99. Hyperbole does not become you.

[EFerrari]

100. Like "bipartisan" and "pragmatic"?

like "shared sacrifice" and "balanced"

[Palmer Eldritch]

103. Do you ever admit when you are wrong? Will you on August 3?

[EFerrari]

135. Do you ever mount an argument or is your specialty

attacking other posters?

[neverforget]

150. much easier to attack the poster and not the message

[cui bono]

257. The message is too depressing to think about even for the apologists. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

104. I know. It's hard to detach myself from "Hope", "Change", and "Audacdity".

Not to mention, "necessary war", "transparency in government", and "he is the one we've been waiting for".

[defendandprotect]

198. +1 --

[defendandprotect]

197. +1000% ---

[frylock]

122. like job creators?

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[TrollBuster9090]

141. That term is TRUE, just incomplete. They create jobs..in CHINA

[defendandprotect]

199. +1 --

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

95. Well, he and his co-negotiators have us on the ropes. To the cheers of the Third Way.

Who assure us that the outcome will be good for us and that we should love sharing with the rich.

[dflprincess]

105. Well, at least we know the one thing Candidate Obama said that President Obama still believes

is that he didn't care if he was a one term president. Four or eight years makes no difference to him, either way he'll be well rewarded for his role in continuing the destruction of the working and middle classes. Just think how well Clinton has done since he left office - I'm betting Obama will do even better.

[defendandprotect]

200. True -- sadly - !!

[Exultant Democracy]

112. He was handed a win and the white house said they wouldn't accept it. F---!

[pam4water]

114. K&R

[Jakes Progress]

115. Of course they are. First to say it won't happen. Then to say it's brilliant.

[NorthCarolina]

116. We are being played, that's for sure. Classic Good Cop-Bad Cop play acting

1. Obama creates a conservative debt commission (the gang of 6)to look at deficit spending.
2. Deficit committee broaches subject cutting entitlement spending, but reaches no real consensus. People are rightly outraged at the outcome, calling it the "Catfood Commission".
3. Obama avoids speaking of Debt commission findings, lets the issue fade as if forgotten or rejected.
4. GOP issues call for balanced budget amendment.
5. Democrats take to the floor of the House and call out the GOP plan as an attempt to completely KILL Social Security and Medicare.
6. Obama suddenly embraces the findings of the Catfood Commission, including deep cuts to entitlements.
7. The plan put forth by the Catfood Commission becomes the lynch pin in raising the debt ceiling so we can borrow again to pay for continued wars.
8. Obama takes to the airwaves to insist that he HAD to back the Debt Commission recommendations for cuts to Social Security and Medicare because the alternative, the "Constitution Amendment for a Balanced Budget" proposed by the GOP, would have been the end of Social Security and Medicare entirely. So you should appreciate his herculean accomplishment limiting it to simply cuts to these programs as opposed to the GOP alternative.

Oh yes Mildred...we ARE being played...by both parties.

[Dept of Beer]

145. Sad

[in_cog_ni_to]

177. OMG

You have no idea how many times I have thought that over the last year. :(

[Dept of Beer]

210. Great movie. Bad reality.

[Lasher]

181. The Catfood Commission made no recommendations.

They were unable to reach a consensus. And so, any associated recommendations are those of individuals, and not of the commission.

Today these proposals are being mischaracterized by just about everybody as Catfood Commission recommendations. Back when the Commission failed to reach a consensus, it was accurately predicted here at DU that this obfuscation would occur.

[woo me with science]

229. [phone]

[SSDA]

117. The only rope is the one around our neck!

[me b zola]

121. yeah, someone was rope-a-doped

...just not who some that it was.

[Dept of Beer]

124. Be you'll sure vote for him in 2012 though.

[robinlynne]

131. as am I.

[ProSense]

133. Proof that the President's "brilliant rope-a-dope" is working

Jane Hamsher: Why won't Obama support the McConnell plan?

OFF-BALANCE: Now The Theater Is Done, How About That Debt Ceiling?

I don't think either of them (the GOP or Hamsher) knows what hit them!

[Dept of Beer]

148. Do you have an original thought, or is it dearly bought?

[ProSense]

158. Do you really want to hear it?

Give me an F!

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[libmom74]

322. After reading many of that ones

posts it's my opinion they are on a pay per post plan, that's the only way to explain the blind loyalty and ready access to White House talking points links.

[mckara]

142. Support Better Candidates and Work Harder

The price of Liberty is Eternal vigilance!

We need to work harder.

[earcandle]

155. Rope a dope is right. If I pay all of my bills on credit cards, and have no revenue coming in, I

am essentially paying not only for the borrowing, but also for
interest.

Given the Federal Reserve has printed the money we pay
interest on, and now 44% of our debt is to them,
it is pretty fucking obvious that we are NOT LEVYING REVENUES
SO THESE DICKHEADS CAN ROB US BY INTEREST EXPENSES>

People, get a fucking clue.  Accounting is accounting.
 
Our leaders MUST levy taxes to play our debts.. not borrow
from the Federal Reserve, not from China, not from Social
Security or anywhere.

Pay our fucking bills by levying taxes on everyone.  Not just
the middle class and poor. That is no money at all! 

We are so fucking stupid.  Why are we so fucking stupid?  As a
party?  Why are we so fucking stupid? 

Raise taxes and get us out of this mess.  We need our
services, our expenses to produce quality of life products and
services
regulated long long ago.

Shit head, mother fuckers... all idiots.  

[Dept of Beer]

171. "play our debts.." Your Freudian slip is showing.

Or are you just hemming it up for the masses?

[earcandle]

205. We are PLAYING our debts, instead of paying our debts.

[Chef Eric]

233. Raise taxes on the rich? We can't do that; Fox News might get upset. nt

[JDPriestly]

159. Me too.

I am watching an old movie with real footage from WWII, stars Gregory Peck -- 12 O'Clock High is the name.

When I think about the sacrifices that American soldiers have made over the years in wars, just and unjust, it shocks me that the richest Americans do not want to pay the fair share of taxes it would take to repay the Social Security bonds of the poorest Americans including many veterans.

Where is the patriotism? Where is the dedication to the Union? "One nation under God, with liberty and justice for all" is surely not a meaningless phrase today.

After all, who has benefited more from wars like the War in Iraq than the oil industry?

Why are they not willing to pay the full measure of the their taxes?

Think of the young men who paid the full measure of their lives so that these oil companies could drill Iraqi oil and sell it to us and others around the world at great profit. But they cannot even give up oil subsidies they don't really need although they must know it would be for the good of the country.

[earcandle]

206. Thank you. Well said. I think they need to be shamed into it. That is why a pie in the face of

Murdock... he needs to be shamed too.  His newspaper has
caused the stupidity we all suffer by dumbing news and
revising history and then feeding it to the people, while the
government allows uneducated people to teach our kids.   

We are too bought in to do anything about it but rant..as if
that freedom to rant is all powerful.  It only is when we act
as well.

Oct 6 in DC.  Be there. David Swanson's event...watch for it. 

[in_cog_ni_to]

172. Change we can believe in.

And there are people here still defending him.

[Dept of Beer]

176. There's one who really is giving the non-believers a pasting.

:rofl:

[harun]

180. They are using the shock doctrine to get more Right Wing policy in to law.

[johnaries]

186. First of all, they never got the votes for a recommendation. What

you are probably referring to are the unofficial recommendations released by Simpson/Bowles, although there was at least one other "dissenting" report released as well.

As far as the unofficial Simpson/Bowles recommendations, did you read them? First of all, they acknowledged that SS didn't contribute to the deficit. They also did NOT recommend that SS be privatized, as many people predicted and some still (wrongly) proclaim. In some cases, they actually recommended EXPANDING Social Security benefits. They did recommend some "tweaks", but nothing close to the major slashes in benefits that SOME people predicted.

Nothing that would force seniors to have to eat cat food.

Just Google Fiscal Commission and read the facts for yourself.

[99th_Monkey]

208. But Wait!! I thought this was a 4-dimensional Chess match. Was I mis-informed? ~nt

[bbgrunt]

209. well at least the Dems in WI know what the agenda should be.

We have been played at the national level.

[Enthusiast]

212. I'm not being 'rope a doped',

I could see what Obama was up to right from the start. His objective is to depress the Democratic voter turnout like he did before the 2010. Well, I can't say it is his 'personal' objective but it is the objective of his employers.

[certainot]

214. how many here expected super obama was going to kick ass in the white billionaire's white house?

- and then sat out in 2010 - if you did then fuck you very much for not voting, and if this wasn't my country too i'd say you got what you deserved you whiny naive assholes.

maybe some of you didn't just turn voting age and you were just waiting for the perfect candidate and took a chance on obama. maybe many of you have been lazy sacks of shit and haven't not been paying attention until it got as bad as bush and finally you woke up and thought we still had a some kind of functioning democracy.

maybe some of you are trolls.

and how many actually believe the media interpretation that the tea party is a new problem? or that fox TV is the republican party's most important media tool?

obama's bargaining position is considerably weaker because of the continuing naivete that a dem or liberal president can do what he wants just because he's president, and the silly notion that he has the bully pulpit.

there are a lot of people analyzing and evaluating obama, including 99% of the professional 'analysts' with no clue what the right's most important weapon is, and some twits thinking this is because obama is a closet republican.

many of the compromises the right is forcing are because of the left continuing to allow the right a complete free speech free ride on the most important part of the right's giant well oiled propaganda machine, the right wing talk radio monopoly. there is NO organized effort to get in their face and call them liars, while they make most efforts by the left orgs half-assed.

it is the equivalent of giving the corporate right a soapbox on every corner and stump in the country for a bunch of jerks to scream all day long that the obamas are whores thieves and traitors and thief and all these people who pledged they'd get obama's back just walk by with their iPods in their ears.

wake the fuck up. getting obama past the corrupt election thieving republicans is the best you're going to get until americans fix the radio problem. this is the best you're going to get considering the supremes and the citizens united ruling and the fact that there 1000 unchallenged corporate-coordinated corporate-fed radio stations pounding away in unison to 50 mil a week, protected by call screeners and prompted by paid callers.

and of course, a few of you are trolls, maybe sharing cubicles with talk radio callers in the basement of the heritage foundation.

[sulphurdunn]

232. I don't think Obama

has any immediate plans to take on the talk radio mob.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/18/white-house-obama-opposes-fairness-doctrine-revival/

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/02/26/senate-votes-to-kill-fairness-doctrine-but-gop-concerns-remain/

[certainot]

262. it's up to the base to fix with local sponsor shaming, picketing of stations, and getting unis out

it's for all thinking americans to tackle - local sponsor boycotts, picketing the stations, get universities out of RW radio and monitoring the main talkers and calling them out for their lies

there's a reason the two most feared words for the GOP are Fairness Doctrine and they've used it's absence so well even the left falls into their alternate reality, uses the language, and believed their crap about the fairness doctrine. but until the left stops giving the left a free speech free ride no major reforms are possible.

[sulphurdunn]

283. Regarding radio,

the American people own the airways. They are merely leased by broadcasters. Since the airways are part of the public domain, it is the responsibility of government to see that all broadcasts serve the public interest. Rant radio falls way short of that standard. Remember, neither Rush Limbaugh nor Clear Channel have any free speech or proprietary rights to broadcast over the public airways. So go ahead and picket the stations, but don't forget the FCC.

[certainot]

333. not sure what you mean about them not having free speech rights

please explain- i've heard a lot of people protecting limbaugh's free speech rights....

[sulphurdunn]

346. Talk radio people

are trying to grant themselves the same 1st Amendment rights on the air that they have off the air. Not so. While the FCC has abandoned the Fairness Doctrine and loosened its rules for the sake of right wing hate mongers, it still makes the rules and can crack down on the likes of Limbaugh anytime it finds the guts to do so. For Limbaugh to claim otherwise is a variation on the corporate personhood argument favored by the Supreme Court and Wall Street. The public owns the airways. Corporations are not people. When Limbaugh runs his mouth on the radio he is acting as an employee or contractor of Clear Channel Communications, a private corporation whose license is leased from the American people. He is in no way acting as an independent citizen expressing his views, nor is he a member of the press. In fact, he claims to just be an entertainer. If he wants to say whatever he wants he should get a job at a subscription cable network like HBO. Otherwise, he hands off his 1st Amendment rights at the studio door just like most of us do on the job.

[certainot]

349. thanks. i guess you're saying public air waves and him being a business make the difference

i suppose the progressive talkers are in the same boat tho

[sulphurdunn]

350. Yes.

[uponit7771]

218. YES!!!! YOU BASHER HAVE BEEN WRONG TOO MANY TIMES NOT TO DEFEND OBAAM

[cui bono]

253. Why did you bring up Pebbles' boyfriend?

I don't remember him being Irish though. :shrug:

[dreamnightwind]

219. Obama's game is the hope-a-dope

and he's quite good at it. Please, somebody with clout and a conscience, primary him. If we can't primary him, what does that say about the left in this country? Left out. Time for us to step up our game.

[SSDA]

247. Yep - he needs to be primaried.

When does this madness stop? Is there any bridge too far for the obots?

[AtomicKitten]

220. Yes. Lawrence O'Donnell is. nt

[cui bono]

256. Yeah! I could not believe him saying how brilliatnt Obama was a few days ago!

Ugh. I really like O'Donnell but that was odd.

[blkmusclmachine]

224. We're being played. Conned, robbed, and ripped off.

And have been for 30 years. The pieces are in place, and the mask is pulled off. We're being f***ed big time, folks.

[defendandprotect]

293. True -- and it's not going to end with Social Security and Medicare ...

this is fascism in America --

And, I'd also encourage anyone reading this to read Al Gore's article in Rolling

Stole which describes it -- without using the word --



:(

[bdamomma]

308. what bothers me if they have been playing us for 30 years

when are we going to say enough, or hit the streets in numbers!! just saying

[JJW]

227. He won't allow drastic cuts, he claims

but Cat Food Commission dismantling of SS and Medicare, that even Congress thinks is a sad joke and just fine and dandy for Mr. O, the corporate tool.

We should have all none after what he did to single payer option. The option that was off the table as if it was articles of the impeachment for Bush.

[sofa king]

231. Yes, and the round isn't over.

And seriously, some of you desperately need to do a little brushing up, starting right here. If you learn something new in those three minutes, you really probably ought to keep going and drop in on Wikipedia, or something.

If you ask me, what's going on right now is that the republicans are desperately trying to find some silver lining that works for them in the next election, but those idiots can't even pull it together for one day to appear anything other than greedy, remorseless, and irresponsible. And their propaganda wing is withering at the same time.

Not a single important Republican-authored bill has made it far enough in this session to even be vetoed by President Obama. It's not even necessary to review the details of what the Republican House is cooking up on this issue; it will die, and you'll have to look hard to find even a fragment of it in the final "compromise."

The reason is simple: thanks to some gentle posturing by the President and Dems in Congress, the GOP has positioned itself so that it is currently endangering the interests of big money, whom they never ignore and never harm. Yesterday, the big money said, "knock it the hell off," and now we're down to the political theater that the GOP will have to desperately play in order to come out of this not looking like they had their asses handed to them.

Even if the GOP does get thrown some sort of a bone in the form of compromise and concessions, I'd put money on the fact that most of those provisions will have a delayed start date until 2013, when a completely-controlled Democratic Congress can draw the poison out of them. Thus, the Republicans' own greed can be used to snooker them into an agreement, and then it will be used as a weapon against them for the next year, and the damaging provisions in a compromise can still be removed. The GOP is also going to take the blame for any hard decision that is actually agreed upon.

By August, the Republicans are going to be punched out, dropping their guard, and totally unprepared for what happens when the President bounces off the ropes like Ali and unleashes his first flurry of counter-punishment. The first thing we're going to do is make them fight like hell just to get the month-long vacation in August that they so dearly love. This is only fitting, since the GOP has been maneuvering since February to time this shut-down so that they can go on vacation at the same time.

I still don't think they're going to get either of those things.

Oh, and by the way, if you want to see the real rope-a-dope in action, you should watch the excellent documentary When We Were Kings. I'm pretty sure it's one of President Obama's favorite films. The key to the rope-a-dope is the illusion of vulnerability. That feigned vulnerability is what so many of you have focused upon, just as George Foreman did.

[Hubert Flottz]

234. Like Karl Childers might say...

"Ummmmmhuh some people call it chess, I call it snookered!

[tweeternik]

243. Yeah ... I'm defending it !! Unrec!!!

pay attention .... maybe you'll learn something. You'll see in the next couple of weeks.

I'm totally disgusted too! By THIS kind of shit among "progressives"! Have you noticed what Obama is dealing with ???? The rethugs have as a primary goal "to make Obama a one-term president"!! NOT embrace policy that best serves this country. What do ya'll propose ... pushing "progressive" legislation that doesn't have a chance in hell of passing?? Get real!! and Get his back!! :think:

[markpkessinger]

307. I'll get his back when he gets mine n/t

[tweeternik]

310. He's got your back .....

like I said, keep watching .... he'll get the best deal possible now AND if WE get him "enough" real democrats in Congress next year we'll get more! But, that's the key. We need to elect more progressive democrats in 2012, which means getting out to VOTE and toning down the bullshit griping about 'obama's not progressive enough'! Gimme a break! :argh:

[BlueJac]

248. He is a master CHESS player.....

we just simply don't understand the game he is playing!

:sarcasm:

[meow mix]

249. i gave up on him like a year ago

trash heap of republican values in there.. id like my vote back plz

[tekisui]

255. Just read GDP for the answer.

[Dr Fate]

270. He is waiting for the Republicans to fall on thier own sword.

You just wait, one day they will ALL fall on their own swords.

All we have to do to make it happen is to agree with everything Obama does, or does not do.

Oh, what a glorious day that will be, when it finally comes!

[avaistheone1]

272. The president evidently thinks he himself is brilliant, and everyone else is a dope.

He continually proves how wrong he his, and with tragic results which will outlive his presidency.

[humbled_opinion]

317. LOL but you really didn't

believe all that hopey changey stuff did you?

[ooglymoogly]

273. Ropa dope is too kind. Its a flym flam swindle and kabuki shell game.

and we are the suckers given a shit sandwich and expected to eat it with a smile and a "can I have some more?".

[WiffenPoof]

276. I Am Beyond Words....Really.

I simply don't know how to react to a Dem President who is giving away the farm...the very principles that made our party the "Party of the People." It's like I'm living in some bizarre upside down world.

I'm starting to fade into the background...I've lost my passion for politics. Completely depressed.

-P

[bdamomma]

309. me too, the DSCC called me last night

what money to give??? and they talk about the repigs beating us or whatever, I have lost my passion too. It doesn't matter who gets in they are all owned by someone bigger than themselves. Lousy attitude huh?

[WiffenPoof]

335. No...I Completely Understand

I don't know where my party went. Any Dems upholding the original principles of our party are considered on the fringe now. We are the extreme. Funny, it wasn't that long ago that I was just considered a Democrat. Times have changed.

-P

[okieinpain]

278. why dont you run for office. start there and see how it goes.

not being a smart ass or anything but you folks that are not happy with how things are going, should get out there and do something about it. start small and work your way up, personally I think president obama is doing a pretty good job, to be honest he's doing better then I expected and I'm not even a big fan of his.

[defendandprotect]

292. "Run for office" ....

Evidently you don't understand that many here have been involvled in politics --

the gates are shut to any but the wealthy --

[okieinpain]

295. even local office, school board, council man, something. hell

lets pool our money together and pick someone to run. I'll chip in a hundred a year just to see someone run that folks could support. I'd really like to see how they would do if they got elected.

[Dr Fate]

299. I raised $50K for the DNC. Do I get to criticise my own party now?

Also worked for the DNC, the GA State DEMS, Richmond County DEMS, and did some fundraising in California.

Is this good stuff, or do I still need to "get out there"?

Oh- I forgot- I have not actually run for an office, so I better hold my tounge.

That goes for swing voters as well. Unless they have run for an office, they must vote DEM or shut up.

[ooglymoogly]

342. Rahm, is that you? nt

[Dr Fate]

344. Rahm is critical of Obama and centrist strategy?

LOL! ;)

I cannot help it if some are having trouble identifing irony, sarcasm and parody.

[defendandprotect]

303. There are VAST amounts of corporate money involvled -- 2010 was $4 billion ...

of which Dems got $1 for every $7 that Repugs got --

Would that cause Dems to become the party of NO CORPORATE MONEY ... ???

Seems not - !


Corporations have control over our governments at every level -- Fed, state, local --

You can run as a Green -- but I imagine they would steal your votes, anyway to

disguise that the party is popular -- and if you did get elected, you would be heavily

opposed. I'm not saying that it isn't worth it to run on one of these third party

tickets -- especially since many more people seem to be waking up having had their trust

in the Democratic Party fairly well shattered!!

[okieinpain]

340. if you think president obama or the dem party is not representing

you what do you care if you still votes or not. run for office but you better be able make your ideas work. not threatening just saying I"m going to be a pain in your butt if you don't keep your word.

[Dr Fate]

298. And for those of us who have done all or much of what you say yet still have critiques...

When the critisms come from us, are they legit, or just more petulant whining?

The "until you become the as powerful as the president or until you quit your job and 'get out there'- you need to shut up" critism probably plays about as well with independent and moderate swing voters as it does here.

[okieinpain]

339. it's only whining if you don't do anything about it. My backyard

is horrible and every time I start talking about it my wife tells me to shut up because I'm not doing anything about it, I think that should apply here also. the president obama critiques are ok, but you should show me that what your complaining about is doable also, else it's just whining.

[Dr Fate]

343. Does that apply to swing voters, moderates & independents?

If they are unhappy with DEMS, we will blame them for not campaigning for DEMS?

LOL!

[okieinpain]

347. sorry I'm stupid, I missed your point. n/t.

[FedUp_Queer]

332. I'd love to run. HOWEVER...

I, for one, don't have the time to take a vacation from work and have several million dollars to piss away on a campaign. That suggestion is, unfortunately, akin to telling a homeless person: "Just go buy a house."

[okieinpain]

341. well that's not exactly true. you can be homeless through no

fault of your own. it would be more akin to telling an addict to not do drugs. it's up to the person and how bad they really want to do or not do the drugs, that's a choice a person can make much like you running for office. how bad do you want to make change you can believe in.

[FedUp_Queer]

351. That's silly...or you're joking.

Sure, I can "run for office." And what about working to pay my bills? Fundraising? Fundraising? Fundraising? It's a silly notion because only the entrenched and rich can actually do it any more.

[mzmolly]

279. Has the rope a dope ended?

I wasn't aware of an actual deal to mourn about, yet. In fact, Democrats came out today saying NO CUTS TO SS AND MEDICARE.

"We have made it very clear that we have no intention of supporting that cuts beneficiaries' benefits," Hoyer told reporters in the Capitol Tuesday.

The comments represent a subtle but significant change in Hoyer's approach to the negotiating table. As recently as last week, the Democratic whip was being careful not to rule out any policy options during the contentious debt talks — a position shared by President Obama.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/172259-hoyer-no-benefit-cuts-in-entitlement-programs?wpisrc=nl_wonk

[alp227]

294. I can't but will vote for him to counter the Republicans n/t

[kenny blankenship]

334. Uh, are you SURE you know how that works?

[alp227]

336. do you want to pay for 4 years of Marcus "Gays are barbarians" Bachmann lodging in the WH? n/t

[kenny blankenship]

338. Democrats seem to remember Democratic programs & principles a lot better when they're in opposition

Wish it weren't so. But with Obama and company, it so obviously is.

The Bachmanns do not scare me. Neither do you. "Democrats" trying to scrap the best achievements of FDR and LBJ scare me.

[Hawkowl]

315. Rape-a-dope

That term would be more appropriate. The average citizen being the dopes.

[Islandlife]

328. We had plenty hope, now here comes the change

[nc4bo]

329. It doesn't seem like he's trying to rope-a-dope Republicans so much as he is...

he's rope-a-doping us. There, I said it. My primitive brain voice is speaking louder and louder.

Time will certainly tell us all we need to know.

[Zorra]

345. My exact words back then, concerning the rope a dope:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1481934#1482521