Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

[Lesleymo]

Most of my friends and family are right-wing, evangelical Christians. They don't believe in gay marriage or abortion or any of that sinful stuff. Turns out they don't believe in poverty, either.

A post by a "friend" on Facebook today pointed to this article:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/272081/modern-poverty-includes-ac-and-xbox-ken-mcintyre#.TiX2HkWXLho.facebook

(Quoting from one small part)
Data from the Department of Energy and other agencies show that the average poor family, as defined by Census officials:

● Lives in a home that is in good repair, not crowded, and equipped with air conditioning, clothes washer and dryer, and cable or satellite TV service.

● Prepares meals in a kitchen with a refrigerator, coffee maker and microwave as well as oven and stove.

● Enjoys two color TVs, a DVD player, VCR and — if children are there — an Xbox, PlayStation, or other video game system.

● Had enough money in the past year to meet essential needs, including adequate food and medical care.

~~~

The fine print below a chart in the article shows that a "poor" family is defined in 2009 as having annual cash income below $21,954.

So, first, Mr. Christian, YOU try meeting "essential needs, including adequate food and medical care," on that kind of income. Let me know how that's done. And second, Oh Christian Friend of Mine, tell me how you would like these families to live? Are you outraged that 99% of them have a refrigerator? Do you envy the 48% who have a coffee maker? Is it crazy that 54% have a cell phone? Really?

grrr ... my response on Facebook was:

I agree that this article is outrageous. But I doubt that we would agree on the reason why.

[Missy Vixen]

1. How dare they not live in a cardboard box?

I look forward to additional "facts" such as the above Facebook post.

:eyes:

[Taitertots]

2. Few things are more dangerous than statistics and people who don't understand how to analyze them

The average had enough to meet their medical needs... But only a tiny fraction would need face catastrophic health problems every year. The average person would be unable to pay for any health care, but didn't need to.

[Stuart G]

3. It is bullshit, made up lies. Makes me sick..nt

[IndyPragmatist]

6. Wow? Really? I'm glad you cleared it up for us

It isn't made up. The conclusions made from the data may be ridiculous, but the data is legit. Unless of course, you think the Department of Energy is just in bed with the Republican Party.

Try to open your eyes a bit, you would be amazed at what you can learn if you aren't preoccupied with being illogical and discrediting anything that doesn't please you.

[muntrv]

4. $21,954 may have been "rich" in 1971, but not today. Try living on that income in NYC, Chicago, LA.

[Lesleymo]

18. Exactly. And I believe ...

most of the poor live in cities. With air conditioning and an Xbox, apparently. Lucky them.

:sarcasm:

[Xithras]

19. $21,954 in 1971 $$ = $116,849 in 2011 $$ based on the CPI

Reversing that, someone making $21,954 today is making the equivalent of someone who only made $4,125 in 1971.

[w8liftinglady]

5. I should take them to my partner's school some day.

He and a co-worker just spent $5000 to shoe some of their students (donated).These kids don't have a pot to piss in,live doubled and tripled up. Big fucking deal they have a television or an old video game.Mom has to juggle peter to pay paul,and sometimes they don't have electricity.

These supposed "Xtians" sicken me. Jesus would have straightened them out pretty quickly.

[BOG PERSON]

7. this article raises an important issue though

it would be a good idea to compare what sort of basket of commodities an average lower/lower-middle-income could obtain in the 60s/70s compared with today's average lower/lower-middle-income. how much space one had in one's household, what kind of appliances (microwaves, televisions, and other standard stuff), luxury items (e.g. xboxes) one could afford, accessibility of consumer credit, etc.

[Warpy]

13. Things have changed so much it's apples vs. oranges.

I had a little portable stereo in the late 60s but no TV, lived alone in a one bedroom apartment and drove a used car on little over minimum wage. I had health insurance through work that didn't ask pre existing illness questions or require deductibles or copays. I was able to afford the occasional concert and a trip to the beach once a year. I was also able to save enough for emergencies. I did most of my own cooking then as now, but I could afford the occasional restaurant meal, especially at lunchtime.

These days it wouldn't afford me any of that, relatively speaking, because it doesn't pay for safe housing, health insurance for minimum wage workers pretty much doesn't exist, insurance makes car ownership out of reach, and it's a daily grind of hoping for enough hours, enough overtime, even another job added on top of a full time one, just to be able to afford a subsistence diet in unsafe housing.

People who write garbage like this don't seem to realize what's happened in this country, that wages were never indexed to inflation and that what might have been a decent income 30 years ago is not a decent income now and that people are falling from living wages directly into poverty at an astonishingly rapid rate thanks to the policies of the party they vote for.

I often challenge them to go through the Sunday paper, look at rents and food prices, and make a budget for this sort of an income. Oddly, no one has ever taken me up on this. They'd rather just sit there and tell the lies that make them feel smug and comfortable and relieve them of any responsibility for causing this much misery.

[hfojvt]

30. microwaves are standard?

I still don't have one.

However, one of the problems here is perspective. The conservative wants to point to a poor person and say "look they have a microwave and a coffee maker and a DVD player, how can they be considered poor? Except that you can get all three for probably less than $300 and they will last for ten years or more. Whereas things like rent cost $500 a month or more (sometimes a lot more, and sometimes less as well) and utilities are $150 a month and food for a family of four might be $300 a month depending on what you eat. So the cost of these luxuries really pales in comparison to ordinary living expenses.

Ten year cost of a television = $500
ten year cost of rent = $60,000

Now cable and cell phones, otoh are monthly expenses. And things like beer and cigarettes are daily expenses. I recently pondered, again, on the fact that I have probably spent $6,000 over the last twenty years just on pop. And that does not even include the increased dental expenses caused by said pop consumption, or other medical expenses.

But way back in the 1990s, I was arguing with myself that I should quit drinking pop. Amd myself argued back that pop was one of my few pure enjoyments of my life, and dammit I was gonna indulge myself this one little bit.

[ThoughtCriminal]

8. I'm sure they said the same thing about radios in 1932

There's no Depression! A lot of those "unemployed" people have radios and drive a Model-A!

[ThatPoetGuy]

9. "Had enough money in the past year to meet essential needs, including adequate food and medical care

What this means:

it means that 51% or more of the poor people in America did not starve to death in 2009.

It means that 51% or more of the poor people in America did not die from medical neglect in 2009.

It means that whoever put that statistic in there was consciously, deliberately trying to mislead people like your facebook friends.

Your facebook friends have been lied to. Why aren't they angry that people have been lying to them? Where is their self-respect?

[Stuart G]

12. How does this add up..one in six Americans are hungry each day.

Is hungry..."adequate food"?..it is bull shit, lies and distortion of facts.

[Yavin4]

10. Most Have Refrigerators Because Housing Law Enforces That Regulation on Owners

The same is true for air conditioners, ovens, and other appliances. Landlords get tax breaks for offering these amenities.

[Warpy]

14. I can tell you that around here, those AC units never get turned on

Evaporative coolers, if they have them, are used sparingly. Otherwise, people make do with fans, if they have them.

A landlord who installs refrigerated air units in his building is assured of never having service calls to pay for. No one can afford to use them.

[indurancevile]

27. and to get paid by section 8 for family housing i believe you need to have functional stove, etc.

& i believe section 8 & medicaid is the only reason a family of 4 w/ < 22K income can afford stove, air con, med, etc.

on the flip side, section 8 & medicaid = subsidies to the private sector. a lot of landlords would be out of business should section 8 disappear. a lot of docs & pharm businesses too.

[Yavin4]

11. What No Cadillacs and Steaks?

Man, the Reagan myth lives on.

[Stuart G]

15. That myth it is true ,never dies..

[TheMadMonk]

16. He does have part of a point at least.

It's not that 99% have a refrigerator, or 9X% having a washing machine and/or stove.

It IS the very significant proportion who have AC, and other power guzzling convenience/comfort appliances. Who have wallet draining subscriptions to cable and gaming services. (I will even allow an internet connection as a near necessity in this day and age, but a "pipe" capable of delivering video in real time and lag free gaming? Really?)

I used to do garrage/yard sales on a regular basis, and just as regularly I saw "poor" families disposing of perfectly good but outdated gaming consoles, televisions, VCRs, DVD players, Bread makers, Pizza ovens, etc. And as likely as not, if you asked why, the answer was an unembarrassed, "We've got something better/bigger now."

Meat and three veg for 1/2 the price of a fast food meal is very easy. Pasta meals are cheaper still.

A whole cryovac rump is not that expensive, cut it into steaks, a couple of roasts and put the trimmings through a food processor to make mince.

A good part of the problem today is that many do not know how to cook a meal, make minor repairs. And a good many who flat out will not settle for anything less than the latest and greatest.

And yes I am fully aware that another big part of the problem is that the world around these people and the people themselves have been deliberately re-engineered to make them skill poor, dependant on external services and demanding of worthless luxury. However, beyond a certain point these people have to actively cooperate in their own plight, nether the clown nor the colonel are holding a gun to their heads.

[indurancevile]

28. Please present your budget for a family of four making $22K.

I lived on $1K as a single 10 years ago. No car, no insurance of any kind & good health is the only thing that made it possible. I had a land line & no TV at all. Rent took half my income. I was a vegetarian, I bought clothes/home supplies second-hand. The only things I bought in "real" stores were underwear, food, & hygiene supplies.

[TheMadMonk]

29. I am not saying $X is enough. I am saying I have seen a lot of...

...evidence for people crying poor, whilst dining on take out several nights a week and buying all the latest and greatest gadgets.

No TV? Is that you saying you're a slave to advertising? Because, therein lies a great deal of the plight of the poor of developed countries.

I've also seen a lot of "middle class poverty" in people who took out 110% home loans with honeymoon rates and made only minimum payments during that period; Who used interest free and no payments for 12/18/24/36 months store credit to purchase items with depreciation periods better measured in minutes than years; Who put cash on plastic; Who put plastic on plastic; who never make more than minimum payments on anything.

Yes, banks predatorially offer pre-approved cards to kids without jobs and raise limits sans requests to do so.

They're betting that a certain percentage of people are too fucking stupid to get out of their own way, and those people promptly rise up, saying "I'll take that bet." and then proceed to prove the banks are right.

Race track or the financial district, it's the bookie's wife who wears the fur coat.

This is not about right or wrong. I mightily disapprove of modern financial practices. It's about what is and the futility of behaving as if it were anything else.

[indurancevile]

34. no budget.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. I bet I know who your friend is.

Back by 5 Mile?

:hi:

K&R :loveya:

[Lesleymo]

22. I need better friends, don't I?

When are you guys moving to Texas???

[TheUniverse]

20. Healthcare cost a lot more than an Xbox

You can buy a used video game system very cheap at a pawn/thrift store. If you have cancer, you may be out $200,000. Big difference. The "poor people have TVs meme is getting old. You cannot eat a TV, and a TV cannot give you surgery.

[sudopod]

21. Color TV is a big deal? What is this, 1970? nt

[Johonny]

31. pretty much

you define "luxury" item to what you want it to be and then declare things as great. We just went through a 14-17 year press on being a consumer society focused on producing cheap consumer goods and cheap consumer food. I remember seeing my first microwave, now from second stores to ebay a microwave isn't that big an expense and more important a lot of cheap food is produced to eat with a microwave. 97.7 % have a TV, 17.9 % have a big screen. 20 years from now even the poor will have a big screen TV.

On another note 60 % have a cordless phone. Do I know any young rich with a cordless phone at home? No. They all have wifi, Skype, smart phones... who uses a land line with horrible rates except the poor?

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. I heard the guy who wrote this interviewed today on a right wing station

We were driving through Wisconsin and picked up this show - I think it was out of Madison. Anyhow this guy was an ass and the host implied that "leftists" who complain about poverty are insulting the poor, who actually live pretty comfortably.

Just right wing nonsense.

Then the host interviewed Scott Walker (the actual reason we had turned this show on) and that was interesting. He actually believes he's doing a good job and isn't the least bit concerned about a recall. It was an entertaining interview because Walker is clearly delusional. The host started asking him about protesters following him around and Walker claimed they'd been kicked out of Madison. The host said they were anarchists. LOL

[tjdee]

24. As someone who made less than 21K last year and has AC, lemme say

they can kiss my grits.

Millions of people who had good jobs were LAID OFF the past few years. We didn't sell ALL of our things (we did sell a lot) because we were too busy applying to jobs and thinking it was temporary.

My car is not new and is driven as little as possible since there are repairs I haven't been able to make. The air conditioners came with the house, and my cell phone is a pre-paid service. And I shouldn't have to explain that to anyone who sees the outside of the situation and has no idea how much I have given up and sacrificed. If I want to buy a pizza once a month it's none of their business.

[Chorophyll]

25. This is a rehashing of the "Welfare Queens" meme of the 1980s.

Too bad conservative people won't just make two basic admissions about themselves:

1) They're selfish

2) It's not as much fun to have things if you can't watch other people suffer

[Pithlet]

26. Yep. This should flush a few out. n/t

[RadiationTherapy]

32. America: the Most of What You Need the Least

[Arger68]

33. Last winter one of my friends on facebook was bitching about

how she drove by a guy begging for money and he had the - gasp - gall to be wearing a North Face brand jacket. I was thinking at that time wow - so does he have to be wearing rags or less in sub-zero weather to ask people for money?