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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:51 AM
Original message
Time for Dems to be honest!
We lost a the house to "Tea-Party/Republicans" in 2010 we now have to deal with them. They do not share our values BUT they don't have to. They get to call the shoots now. I'm tried of reading what Obama should do! It's time for us as Democrats to take up the responsibly that we didn't when we allowed the crazies to flank us in the house. We were too smart, funny and correct be defeated by the right, remember. We got our ass handed to us and now want the president to take all the heat, and somehow stop a congress that's so right wing they are willing to drive us into the financial abyss just to say it happened on Obama's watch!

Many of you think that Obama can just stick to his guns and the right will fold, sorry not going to happen! We have to adopt a real 365 majority strategy for prolonged legislative dominance. f*ck 50 states we can't gain power an then let the clowns back in to stop progress. Obama is trying to respect the house that has the purse stings and get a little of what he wants at the same time. BTW Dems the re-punks are playing this game the right way when you have the house you tell the president where the money is going to go until he deals. We should have handed bush is balls left and right but we bent over again and again and just took it!

Stop looking at Obama to do more than play the shit hand we gave him. Are you mad at how this tax and debt game is playing out? GOOD! Just remember that as you guys are looking to check out next election. Many of you are true left wing fighters and know it but it's time to face the music we dropped the ball in 2010 not 2008 and are now paying for it!
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. OMG...A voice of reason...surely you didn't think about posting
an open-minded point of view before you did? I admire your bravery and agree totally.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. BULL
You tell me where Obama is going...........
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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. No not Bull and yes I can tell you ...
Sure he is going center right to appeal the majority of voters, the center left will not feel too hurt by this and to be honest this is where his real political base is. As close to the center as he can get. Cuts in the big 3 and upgrades to tax code to make some money on the back end. No side is saying to cut military spending or stop one of the 2-4 wars ( depending on your count) we are in. He's going as politically safe as he can be. Will it win him 2012? I'm not sure yet but it's a better place to be than be seen as far left by many voters. You may not like that but it's the truth Center wins not extremes.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Well then that is just pure bullshit
He got elected to do a job not to keep votes.
It is not his job to be politically safe. That is a sign of a weak leader.
If he only cares about being elected again he does not
deserve to be president. It is his job to bring this country forward
and he is not doing that. It is also congress's job to
bring this country forward and they are not doing that.

War polls: We are in 6 wars
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/07/public-opinion-on-the-wars-new-polls-offer-conflicting-evidence/
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm


I am glad in your world that the center left will not feel too hurt by this.
You say nothing about the bottom poor.
How do the top 10% feel about sharing the pain??
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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Ok, one at a time but fair enough...
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 04:33 AM by DaDeacon
1) He got elected to do a job not to keep votes.
Agreed but to do one he has to do both :dilemma:

2)It is not his job to be politically safe. That is a sign of a weak leader.
Not true in fact respecting the will of the most voters is a sign of both effective leadership and political savvy, but I can see your point.

3)If he only cares about being elected again he does not deserve to be president. It is his job to bring this country forward
Not true, Article 2 of the United States Constitution provides that the president (in brief):

    Head of the government - making sure the government stays open for business and deciding how the nation's laws should be enforced
    Commander in Chief of the nation's military
    Setting foreign policy, that is, how the US reacts to and interacts with other countries across the globe, and acting as the official --representative of the US with foreign countries
    Negotiate and sign treaties or agreements with foreign nations on anything from trade and commerce to nuclear arms how the nation
    Nominate and appoint ambassadors (people who represent the US in foreign countries); members of the Cabinet; US Supreme Court Justices as well as the judges of the other federal courts
    Sign or veto new laws enacted by Congress - the US House of Representatives and US Senate
    Propose the nation's budget - how much money, if any, each department, service, project and many other things will get each year
    Grant pardons to people convicted of federal crimes
    Address the US Congress about the state of the union


no moving us forward is not there I checked. (don't get mad I wish it was too)

4) War polls: We are in 6 wars
They left out the war on drugs, Somali Pirates and Fat kids ...like I said whatever count you want to use.

5) I am glad in your world that the center left will not feel too hurt by this. You say nothing about the bottom poor.How do the top 10% feel about sharing the pain??

Left, right, center, are places on the political spectrum while poor and rich are economic. Some poor are very right leaning some rich are very Left. I am Center left and to be honest I have accept that this class of Republicasn is hellbent on getting some the Dems big 3 cut down and it will happen if not today it will need to one day. Just saying.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. FINALLY! A sane voice in a morass of ugly negativity against this president. K&R! eom
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. You might note that the opposition "got their ass" handed to them in Wisconsin today.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 02:23 AM by jtuck004
They get to call the shoots now. <-- That's just horseshit, and misspelled.

The lesson above may mean that when you bring what the teabaggers want home to momma, momma says get lost.

Right now the House is somewhat of an abstraction. "We have to balance", yada, yada, yada. All sounds good and responsible, as long as they don't put any real details on paper.

If, on the other hand, they decide they are gonna take $1000 out of Mr. Smith's Social Security check over the next 10 years, or force Ms. Jones to pay private companies to take a profit before she gets less senior health care than before, less security for all of us, more people in poverty for longer...

And we we figure out how to bring the results of their vapid and greedy approach to draining this country into the pockets of the wealthy home to momma in a way that makes it personal, it is entirely possible that they won't just "get their asses" handed to them, but they will be marinated and smoked before they are delivered. They may very well find themselves in the minority again.

I don't personally believe that we will get anywhere without a jobs\training\rebuilding program, one that should have begun after we faced the loss of 9 million jobs. But I see no reason whatsoever to get mad at worthless and selfish little piglets. They are not nearly, not nearly, that important.

How's that for honest?
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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. I agree, however....
Joe and Jane SUV/No Savings/NIMBY need to understand that. Investment now reward later is just fairy tale to them. That is the nutritive we are losing because it's not an easy one to sell.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. What in our government or eduction system teaches them to do anything else?
Yes, there should be thought given to personal responsibility. But we teach people to be consumers. We don't, not really, talk about investing in people or the country - these things are seen as "expenses", something dirty which must be minimized. We mouth the words "save money", but have no conversation about why our priorities are so screwed up, about what value there is in employers who don't pay enough to save anything, about why it cost someone who makes less than $30,000 a year a couple grand in extra fees that wealthier people don't pay. (There's a whole damn industry profiting from that). We need to have a grand conversation about whether we want to live in a bankster economy. In that economy there is little investment, nearly nothing that will lead to wealth-building except by a few. And the country crumbles around them.

We could craft policies that insure investment in our country, with so many jobs we could have billboards in our cities which say "We Welcome Businesses That Want To Pay Taxes. If You Are Looking For A Handout Tax Credit, Please Molest Another City". We could re-structure our lives so that Joe and Jane could trade that SUV off (she never liked it anyway).

Our immediate problem, however, is the effort of the assholes led by Grover Norquist, Koch Bros. and friends, who have only two goals in life. 1 - Get the black man out of the presidency or 2) Destroy the provisions for Social Security and other ideas from earlier in the last century that made and continues to make our society better, safer and healthier. (there are some other issues, but it really boils down to these). So far I have seen no evidence that they wish to do anything other than defeat, destroy, and dominate over the tar-paper shacks that are left.

They would be quite happy to see (literally) smoking ruins at their feet, where the rubble contained all of us, everyone we love, everything we ever cared about, in the pursuit of those goals. I agree with the statement in the op "They do not share our values...".

Our negotiating position should be Obama holding a presser while he nails wanted posters to the podium. With a bounty. Maybe send a seal team after the treasonous bastards.

In the meantime, we could distribute fliers that ask "Is your mom missing money from her purse? Ask one of these Republicans where it is".

There are a lot of things that could be done if enough voters realize exactly what they will lose if the 'baggers prevail, We cannot give one centimeter. Any quarter you give them will cost you dearly. Never address any of their ideas as even worth discussion, because they do it for selfish, petty, childish reasons, and their end will be the destruction of this country. We have to change the conversation, and force others to do so.

There are reasonable people out there, statesmen and brilliant women, who care about the country and its security. We can work with them and build something.

Here's a little honesty, a point about just one of their goals, decreasing SS:

Our U6 unemployment is 16.2%, up .4% from last month. There is nearly nothing out there which indicates that we will be able to markedly reduce that for at least the next 10 years, perhaps longer.

Thus, millions of our neighbors who have lost their jobs in their 50's have already worked and been laid off or fired from the last job that will pay them a living wage. Millions have worked the last job they will ever have. Not the last one they need, but the last one they will ever have. SS is the first relief they will see, 5, 6 8 years from now.

8000 people a day are turning 65. (We added over 500,000 people to the rolls of SS in the past year).

According to Bernie Sander's latest report, 1 million seniors, our neighbors, do not have enough money for food. The SS Administrations stats show 38 million of our neighbors on SS, and a third of them with nothing else between them and abject poverty.

A raise in retirement qualifications means 2 more years without food, heat, or shelter for those people. It also adds hundreds of thousands more to their number.

Knowing that, how many people could you send to bed hungry, or into the street in the winter, and still think you are doing the right thing? Half a million, a million? Not me brother/sister.

That is not representative of what the people in my country want, I am pretty sure, so I see no reason to go down that road. I will never vote for anyone who furthers that aim - there is no possible result that I think is important (or scary) enough to do anything else. As a nation we have insured the jobs and bonuses of very wealthy people and corporations (wait, are corps are people too? But I digress...) at the expense of these, our most vulnerable. Demand is the ONLY thing that will fix this economy, and there is none to speak of. Were we to invest the bankster payoffs in our people instead - training, in building whatever passes for manufacturing\wealth building facilities and jobs in the economy of the future - we would very likely have no need to have this conversation, and the 'baggers would look even sillier and more radical than they do now. (They are giving "radical" a bad name, eh?). They must be sealed away, so to speak, so we can get on with the important business.

When that is made plain and clear, that the choice is that stark, evidence seem to indicate that enough people will rethink their position and stop this. (It's early, but Wisconsin may prove to be not only an early indicator, but a warning of the kind of effort it will take to move this conversation in a different direction.
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indurancevile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. yes, another call to work even harder to elect democrats. i believe we had the presidency,
house & senate when obama was elected?

but it wasn't good enough because of those nasty "blue dogs".

it's always something.
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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Look at the heath care vote.
It's not a "something" friend it was a reality!
I tell my 8 year old soccer team: You work to be the best, not to rest.
Work harder for a better Party!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. Obama dropped the ball in 2010.
If he had fought for a public option, his base would have fought for him, and the voters would have voted for Democrats.

Obama has no one to blame but himself.

He is still eavesdropping. The airport security measures are more intrusive than ever. Guantanamo is still open. There are still too many secrets. We have no way of knowing whether really important security like securing chemical factories or nuclear reactors and the like have been taken.

The bankers still take their huge bonuses. The banks are still "too big to fail." Obama has not taken the argument that the wealthy should pay higher taxes to the voters. He has taken it to the Republicans although their rejection of that proposal is a foregone conclusion.

Obama has not argued strongly enough for the idea that Social Security and Medicare should not be cut, and the programs should not be means-tested to any greater extent than they are. He has just acquiesced without a fight of any kind.

Obama does not have absolute power, but he is the most powerful man in the world. His power does not simply arise from the fact that he can press the trigger to signal the use of the greatest military force in the world.

Obama's true power resides in his ability to command the attention of not just the American people, but the people of the world. It is that power -- the power of his bully pulpit -- that Obama has failed to use well.

That is why he alone is responsible for the fact that there are so many Republicans in Congress. He failed to grab the narrative. Since taking office, he has allowed the Republicans to write the script for his presidency. It's very sad.

The American people deserve better. That is why I am hoping a progressive challenger for 2012 will emerge from the Democratic Party.
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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I disagree and here is why.
You must remember that the house Dems refused to put a single player plan on the table even after the first year president asked for it saying that "It would be political suicide in 2010" do you not remember that or do you only remember what we ( the left) wrote in hindsight. Do you remember how the Republicans went on a bad PR campaign that made Dems run from the idea of Obama/death camp/Clinton care BS. Good now that we have removed the revisionist history let's go back something you said:

"Obama does not have absolute power, but he is the most powerful man in the world. His power does not simply arise from the fact that he can press the trigger to signal the use of the greatest military force in the world."

Sorry the military IS why he is the most powerful man in the world, that "bully pulpit" is there because in all practical logic he could just have all who oppose him killed. That most powerful man hogwash was not bestowed to the American President till the rise of the US during the Cold War. It's not his job to educate you on why policy is needed, however it's nice of the office to do so. Your education is provided for free between the ages of 4/5 - 17/18 if you can't think for your own best interest that's not on the President, Rush, or Jon Stewart fault it's yours.

Republicans own the house because they have beat us Democrats on the narrative not the President, the Democrats. The frame that you used above I'm afraid is why. There is too much "They" there. For anyone that has cared Obama has done some huge things in the past 12 months alone that any other president would be proud of but when you ask a Dem not even a Republican a Dem what has he done you get a blank stare. We have given into their negative arguments and it so stupid. He's not a leader. really? Killed Bin Laden(I misspelled it, I don't really care!) his administration has kept net neutrality alive (so far, wait speaking of so far http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/). All this with the weakest US economy since the carter/ford Rescission while on a 24 hour new story every 20 min news cycle that loves failure.

Keeping up bullshit to show how much of a left wing bad ass you are just gets you kicked out of office ask Alan Grayson. There was no better left wing Fighter than Grayson, did he keep his seat? No, because in big boy and girl world you have to compromise to make real progress.
I am not anti Dem but I have become anti-"Anti-thinking" and this web-page has lost what used to be it's best feature. True political analysis from "thinkers" on the left who didn't have talk shows but read a news paper from time to time. Wake up guys It's not that he is our best option he never was. Currently he is the president from a weak party that has no real long term political goals beyond fighting the other party and no one beyond us is buying it!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Problem is that Obama hasn't tried to persuade Democrats to
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 11:12 AM by JDPriestly
back him up.

That's why I say that he has not used his bully pulpit.

I remember Harry Truman. I remember his hearing his voice when I was a child.

I remember hearing my parents talk about him when I was a child.

Harry Truman was not well educated, but he knew what he thought was right, and he at least told you what it was in so many words, no more, no less.

Obama thinks too much about what is possible and not what is right.

And as a result, he accomplishes the easy things that his base really doesn't care about very much.

I know that his avid supporters talk a lot about all the things he has accomplished, but those are not the things that I feel need or needed to be done.

So, as a result, I, who have been a very active campaigner, door-to-door, standing in farmers' markets, talking to voters (very persuasive I might add), will not be campaigning for him.

Why? It's not that I don't like him. It's that I wouldn't have anything to say about him that could persuade a voter to vote for him other than that the Navy Seals supposedly killed Bin Laden during his presidency. No proof, and I believe him, but I couldn't prove it to anyone.

Obama passed health insurance reform, but the cost of health care has not come down, very few people have better access to health care (not enough to make a difference at the polls), and Medicare will apparently be cut in some way, but no one seems to want to admit or can explain to us seniors just what that will mean for our pocketbooks and our health care.

Obama may have a bragging list, but it's not something I could campaign on.

In spite of all the focus on cutting the national debt, as commander-in-chief, Obama is not closing anywhere near enough overseas bases. Now, I think he could just declare a financial crisis and start cutting since he is commander-in-chief. I don't think he has cut any of the many military programs and weapons programs that haven't even produced functioning weapons.

Obama has not gotten the lobbyists out of the White House as he promised. His own chief of staff worked in government affairs at Morgan Stanley before coming to the White House.

Obama likes right-wing Republicans more than he does traditional Democrats like myself. I hope he is able to get them to GOTV for him, because I won't be helping.

Obama's admiration for Reagan is just the final insult.

I hope that a challenger that I can support will step forward if only for the primaries. Obama has been more callous toward Democrats like me who worked hard for the Democratic Party including in his 2008 campaign than he has been or the most right-wing Republicans. I'm not fool enough to back him this for 2012. Not at this point anyway.

I will continue to back my solidly progressive congressman. He's great.
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