Got A Car, A Frig, A TV, A Coffee Maker? Then Don't Worry: You're Not Poor

[kpete]

You know all those "poor people" we're always reading about? Turns out it's a crock. A new paper from the right-wing think tank Heritage Foundation http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/what-is-poverty says the Census Bureau's defining almost 40 million - one in seven - Americans as poor is exaggerated and includes many people who are "not poor in any ordinary sense of the term" because they have housing, a "reasonably steady supply of food," and a host of modern amenities like cable tv, air conditioning, an Xbox and an oven and stove. Whew, for a while there we were worried about the economy, and perhaps even some inherent injustice within it.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/272081/modern-poverty-includes-ac-and-xbox-ken-mcintyre

*****"The home of the typical poor family was not overcrowded and was in good repair. The typical poor American family was also able to obtain medical care when needed. By its own report, the typical family was not hungry and had sufficient funds during the past year to meet all essential needs."

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/07/18-3

[CBGLuthier]

1. Oh well, if he wrote it on a sign it must be true

Nobody would ever say they needed money for food and diapers if it wasn't true.

During the great depression the streets weren't littered with beggars. I assume they are ALL scamming.

Compared to the rest of the world. Nobody is really poor in this country.

[Divernan]

10. Forget about all those seniors who have to choose between food and Rx's

Forget about the people wearing three layers of clothing in the winter to keep the gas bill low enough so they can pay it and it doesn't get shut off. Forget about the 12 people who just died in Kansas City, MO from heat stroke - no fans/air conditioning. Forget about the people who desperately bring their sick kids into emergency rooms because they couldn't afford to take them to a pediatrician. Forget about the homeless we see on the streets.

Good god, what gated enclave to you live in? Got tinted windows on the limo so you don't have to see the hoi polloi in the real world, as your chauffeur drives you to your private jet? Winter on the Riviera, do you?

Yes, there are professional beggars who do scam. Maybe the guy in the photo is one of them. But to state that compared to the rest of the world, nobody is really poor in this country? What are you even doing on this board? This is DEMOCRATIC Underground, not Heartless Misers Underground. Did Charles Dickens model Scrooge after you?

I've never forgotten a graduate research job I had, interviewing seniors in subsidized housing. One sweet old guy told me how many slices there were in a loaf of bread - that's how closely he had to manage his budget. He had a son who lived in a nearby suburb, and once a month this old guy had his son come over for dinner. The old guy had to scrimp and save to buy chicken to have for that meal. I asked him if his son wouldn't be able to help him out financially and he said he didn't want his son to know how poor he was,and that he didn't want to be a burden to his son.

So notwithstanding the all-heart attitude (NOT) of CBGLuthier, I suggest DUers get a clear understanding of the financial situation of their older relatives. You can do this through simple observation (like this guy's son could have looked at the nearly bare kitchen cabinets, the nearly empty refrigerator, and his dad's threadbare clothing).
One quarter of Americans are helping out a poor relative. I'm thinking it should be more. And it's not just elderly relatives who may need help. If you have a sibling who's out of work, how about quietly helping with expenses for your nieces/nephews? They're going to need new clothing as they outgrow the old. They perhaps can wear hand me down clothes or stuff from the thrift shop, but really should have new shoes, at least. More and more high schools are charging extracurricular fees, not only to be on a sports team, but even to work on the school paper, or sing in the choir. Figure out an amount you could spare, and then have a heart to heart with your brother or sister, and offer to help out.

[Occulus]

14. I live to fight the kind of evil you and those like you bring into this world n/t

[Divernan]

23. Well said!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. delete

delete

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. I Can Take You To Places In Orlando Of All Places

I can take you to places in Orlando where people literally live in fourth world living conditions.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. You are serious?

:wtf:

[Maru Kitteh]

47. I dearly hope you find yourself the object of shame and scorn. You seem to deserve it.

And I hope it is want and poverty that brings you there.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. Who would stand on a street corner begging for a few bucks

if they had any other source of income? I see people standing with their cardboard signs at freeway exit ramps all over my city in all kinds of terrible weather, and I can't imagine doing that - being out there in the subzero cold we get here, or the pouring rain, or (lately) 100-degree heat, just to pick up a few dollars here and there from the small number of people who stop to give them something. If you need to do that you're poor. If I have cash I usually will give these people some. Maybe they are scamming; I think mostly not. Maybe some will buy liquor instead of food - so what?

And during the depression there were, in fact, beggars - including hobos who'd ride freight cars from town to town, stopping at houses where a previous hobo had left a sign indicating the person who lived there might help them.

Compared to people in the Sudan or Bangladesh, for example, poor people in America aren't *as* poor. That doesn't mean we should ignore them or diminish their problems.

I'm not particularly religious, but there's something to think about at Matthew 25:34.

[cali]

68. yes, there are people who are really poor in this country and more than a few.

Hell, there are people where I live who are really poor. I know people without indoor plumbing. I know people who are dependent on the local food shelf. I know people who can't afford to heat their homes properly.

[Starry Messenger]

2. I even see people here spouting this RW tripe.

Hmmmmm.

[WatsonT]

3. I think it is fair to say that American poor to day in general are better off than in previous eras

and that you really shouldn't be wasting money on television if you're that poor.

However that doesn't mean debt and medical expenses can't wipe you out even if you do sell off your luxury items and live frugally.

I suspect we have more and are less likely to starve today, but are more likely to go bankrupt due to sudden medical expenses, lawsuits, etc than in previous years.

[madrchsod]

5. ahhh..i can buy a pretty decent tv at my thrift shop for 25 bucks

dvd,cd,and vhs players for under 15 dollars. 1-2 dollars for cd`s,vhs,cd`s. x box`s and other games for around 10-20 depending on the system. a lot of the people who buy the games are kids who have saved up money or birtday/christmas money.

[Divernan]

21. So if the apt. you rent from a slumlord in a high crime area

has an ancient, rusted window air conditioner, which burns up electricity so fast you don't dare run it, plus hasn't had the freon topped off in years, HEY! You de facto are NOT poor because you have air conditioning! And you have roaches and rats too, but the landlord throws those in for free, and ain't life GRAND in the good ole US of A. Thank god you're not in some third world country and STFU.

And if the only entertainment you can afford is from a very old, NON high definition TV, with basic cable you are just as non-poor as the guys with 3 big screens, and premium cable service.

[WatsonT]

43. I never mentioned anything about AC

And there are such things as libraries.

Americas obsession with the TV is not healthy (how can you call it living without 40,000 hi def channels?).

[Divernan]

58. The articles cited in the OP referred to how many "poor" people had AC

Did you mention libraries because people without air conditioning could go there to escape the killer heat waves? The libraries in my area have had to cut back on hours of operaton because of budget cuts by local governments. Mine is only open one evening - until 8 p.m., and closed completely on Sundays. Plus my area has lots of hills, no sidewalks in suburbs, and there are not even bus stops at many libraries. Nobody can walk to my library - unless they can handle hiking several miles on roads with no adjacent walkways.

[WatsonT]

67. No I mentioned libraries

because you stated they had no other form of entertainment, hence the need for a TV to survive (all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding).

And the AC thing came from the article, not from my statements. You don't think I wrote that article do you?

[LanternWaste]

55. Much like saying...

"American poor to day in general are better off than in previous eras..."

Much like saying the child being abused by his father isn't getting abused as badly as the grandfather beating the father in his youth. I imagine we all rationalize things...

[WatsonT]

57. I see quite a difference between starving and not starving

you do not?

[LanternWaste]

63. Much as there's quite a difference between ...

Much as there's quite a difference between abuse that leave marks and abuse that does not.

[WatsonT]

65. So then it's agreed: the poor today

while they face many problems, do in fact have it better than the poor of yesteryear. We do not have mass famine in this country, which we have had before.

[madrchsod]

4. the heritage foundation is hiring college drop outs to do research

i would say high school drop outs but this article has a whiff of some credibility.


or is that the dog shit on my shoe?

[Erose999]

6. Who are the .1 % of people who live without a refridgerator? Oh, and theres no mention in that

Heritage article of the families financial standings, such as their savings, credit scores, etc. Also, the facts are that many of these families are a missed payday or two away from being out on the street.

Fuck Heritage with a broken bottle.

[Erose999]

11. Furthermore, the stove, fridge, washer/dryer and ceiling fans are not usually items owned by renters

while the home may have them usually those are things that are the property of the landlord.

Also, I bought a coffee maker and a microwave at goodwill recently and the total was like $20. And who even uses VCR's anymore? You can't even give them away! Is Heritage going to begrudge people for owning something as worth as little as a Mr. Coffee?

Heritage is completely full of shit.

[drpepper67]

7. American poor is much different than other parts of the world.

There are people on the planet who have never talked on a telephone. Who have to walk miles to get dirty water. Who live on $1 a day.

Use google. Some of those road side beggars make more than people with regular jobs. Not all but some do.

America is still a land of opportunity compared to other parts of the world. Not too many people sleeping in mud huts. I'm not referring to homeless people with addiction or mental problems.

Yes, America has poor people. But not "dirt poor" by world standards.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Yippy. We Are Better Off Than Zimbabwe

~

[dana_b]

52. seriously... wtf?

Is Zimbabwe now a place that we should compare ourselves to? That poster's attitudes (and others like him/her) are a big part of our problems now. S/he should go work for the Heritage foundation.

[The Big Vetolski]

22. "...not 'dirt poor' by world standards." SO WHAT?

When 400 Americans have as much wealth as 150 million Americans, there's something very wrong. When billionaires are bailed out but our leaders want to cut what's left of the old social democratic safety nets, there's something very wrong. There is no reason whatsoever why ANY American should have to live in poverty BY AMERICAN STANDARDS. There's plenty of money here.

Land of opportunity, my ass. There just aren't any living wage jobs being created in this country these days. Not even for Mexicans. A lot of them are going back home because they can't find any work here.

I don't care about "world standards" of poverty in my country. I care about economic justice. And statements like yours only serve those whose greed is destroying my country. You make me so :mad: I want to :puke: , on you.

[Divernan]

25. Not only the Mexicans, but the Irish are leaving US and returning to their home countries.

One poster had it quite right. I read the article in the link, and it repeatedly attacked the Census Bureau as having misrepresented the poverty level for decades - likely the Census Bureau will shortly be told by the present administration to rewrite its definition of poverty.

It will be like rewriting the formula for SS colas Obama will call it "improving" or "upgrading"

[drpepper67]

28. No jobs? Really?

Hemlock Semiconductor is building a $1.2 Billion (Billion with a B) plant near Clarksville, Tennessee.

Volkswagen is building a new plant near Chattanooga, Tennessee.

No jobs?

Hmmmmmm.

Not so sure about that ....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I Guess The Fourteen Million

I guess the fourteen million unemployed, underemployed, and discouraged workers need to fill those jobs right now.

[Pooka Fey]

33. For Volkswagen --- The USA has become Europe's Mexico -- cheap labor & non-union

[Cannikin]

35. Are you aware of the costs related to relocating to another state for work?

We'd need a major sign on bonus to move there.

[WatsonT]

45. Large scale homeownership makes it more difficult as well

you rent and all the jobs disappear: no problem, just bail.

You own a home and all the jobs disappear: you're stuck there until you can sell or lease a house that no one wants because all the jobs are gone.

[Divernan]

38. Big Whoop! Hemlock (aka Dow Corning) hiring 500 in late 2012

http://www.hscpoly.com/content/hsc_comp/HSC_Job_Prep.aspx
Clarksville, Tenn.: Workers can learn more about the hiring process for hundreds of jobs at the Hemlock Semiconductor, L.L.C. plant in Clarksville at a career fair on October 14. The company plans to hire 500 full-time workers before the $1.2 billion facility begins manufacturing polysilicon in late 2012. Polysilicon is the cornerstone material used in solar panels.

The Hemlock Semiconductor Group (hscpoly.com) – Hemlock Semiconductor – is comprised of two joint ventures: Hemlock Semiconductor Corporation and Hemlock Semiconductor, L.L.C. The companies are joint ventures of Dow Corning Corporation, Shin-Etsu Handotai and Mitsubishi Materials Corporation. Hemlock Semiconductor is a leading provider of polycrystalline silicon and other silicon-based products used in the manufacturing of semiconductor devices and solar cells and modules. Hemlock Semiconductor began its Michigan operations in 1961 and broke ground at its Tennessee location in 2009.

HSC and HEMLOCK SEMICONDUCTOR are trademarks of Dow Corning Corporation.

[Divernan]

39. Volkswagon to hire 300 non-permanent "contract workers" @ $12.50/hour

The plant is already open and all new hires will be on a temporary basis at a whopping $12.50 an hour. And I don't think contract workers get shit for health care or other benefits. So compare that "pay" with what union workers earned on a Detroit assembly line. Probably about 1/5th, by the time you factor in sick pay, vacation pay, pension plan, health insurance, etc. Meanwhile back in Germany, workers start out with 4 weeks vacation & some pretty nice government programs for citizens.

http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/story.aspx?id=616137

(From a VW press release)

The assembly plant is already up to 1700 employees and the additional hires will take the operation up to 2000.

But the new hires will not be permanent employees...at least not yet.

VW, and other overseas car builders making cars in the U.S., bring in new hires as "contract workers" first using an outside firm to hire and handle benefits for the employees. Eventually, VW picks and chooses those who will eventually come under their direct employ.

The contract workers start at around $12.50 an hour...whereas the permanent VW workers start in at $14.50.

[AverageJoe90]

62. You think the German far right is going to try to pull the same thing eventually?

Just a thought. After all, the U.S. & European far-righters do seem to agree on a lotta things, ya know.......

[eilen]

64. While not perfect, most will not look in askance

it is a job, an opportunity for a permanent position. It's not perfect but it is a job that many will be happy to get.

[Maru Kitteh]

48. So you think people are too lazy to work and the poor have it pretty easy.

You do realize this is a progressive website, don't you? While there are many places on the internet where you will be made to feel comfortable with your right-wing hog slop - this place is not one of them.

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. Thank You!

:applause:

[Lifelong Protester]

53. You took the words right out of my my mouth...SO WHAT?

I don't care about 'poverty by world standards', I care about poverty in the richest country on Earth (or at least we used to be the richest...).

JUSTICE! WE NEED JUSTICE! ECONOMIC JUSTICE!

Anyone who believes the Heritage Foundation's tripe is beyond redemption.

How does anyone know if the TV or Xbox are second hand? A gift? Left in the damn apartment by the last person? Cripes. People who talk about poverty as only what they can see SEE NOTHING. They want to be comfortable thinking 'oh, well, they aren't THAT bad off'.

When people got nothing left to lose, stuff is going to start snapping and happening.

[dana_b]

50. we were (maybe still are)

the richest country in the world. Why is it okay that people need to beg on the side of the road for food? Why is it okay that kids go hungry or that older folks/those on disability have to ration out their change so that they can make it through until the first of the month? Oh - and not all homeless people are addicted to something or have mental probems. Why do we need to be "dirt poor" for you to give a damn??

[a la izquierda]

51. Kindly explain to me..

what the fuck poor people in Appalachia are? Or how about Native peoples on reservations who have tar paper for roofs? Oh, and don't try to tell me I don't know the rest of the world. I've studied in Latin America.

Poor is poor, quit qualifying it like the right-wing bullshit article does.

[eilen]

60. Probably because we have working sewage systems and aquifers

and reliable power.

For now.

[AverageJoe90]

61. That's true.

It's not like most people are living on only $500 a year like in many 3rd World nations. But unfortunately, we may be headed in that direction, at least in some parts of this country, if the GOPers and the Teabaggers have their way. :grr:

[Pooka Fey]

8. They'll say ANYTHING to justify their greed - why should they define this debate?

A wingnut bankster who has never even SEEN a typical working class American has NO PLACE talking about what defines poverty. Gimme a fucking break!

A REASONABLY steady supply of food??? WTF???!!! I don't think so! Sorry, ramen noodles from Walmart are a "food-like substance" - not food. Ramen has ZERO nutritional value, it is one step removed from eating styrofoam. It is just something hot to put in your stomach. Ideally, we eat to take in NUTRIENTS.

These people are pure evil. "You have an OVEN, so shut up! You're not poor! No increase of the minimum wage is necessary"

I call supreme BULLSHIT on this. :mad:

[hootinholler]

9. Reprise of the Welfare Queen

Nevermind that public assistance is limited by the draconian welfare to work program.

They haz XBox! They get hair done and nails polished!

:puke:

-Hoot

[chrisa]

46. Yeah, this stereotype is pretty stupid, considering

these "Welfare Queens" probably work 100X as hard as the people who fling their noses in the air at them. Many of them work multiple, unsatisfying, minimum (or low paying) wage jobs just to support their families.

Then you have these snobby asswipes with cigars hanging out of their mouths calling these people lazy.

[OHdem10]

12. Next Step. This is preparing the ground work for getting rid of

any public assistance, financial aid to many whom we
now identify as poor.

Heritage leads the way in GOP Ideas.

More of his group should be paying taxes instead of receiving
assistance. Just as the Pragmatic Dems are willin gto cut
SS and Medicare they will roll over on this just as fast.

The Republicans appear to believe we are going to be
a lower wage country, so they are putting things in place
at the state laevel already. Lower wages means the scale
moves downward. Fewer people can be classified as Poor.

The Democrats appear to be willing to appease. Look at
that potential deal on Debt Ceiling.

[Divernan]

17. Very insightful observation - setting us up to accept increased poverty

[Occulus]

13. Bullshit first to last

Facebook message to me last night from a friend. This friend has an apartment nicer than mine, decent furniture, a washer and dryer, coffee maker, and a (14") color TV:

need your help. Im starving. I havent eatin in like a week. Can i borrow like 20 or 30 so i can get some food

I'm trying to get in touch with him now so I can take him out and feed him.

[Cannikin]

15. Why did he go and make a baby if he can't take care of it?

Those are preventable, you know!

That the typical Arkansas Republican response you'd get where I live. Steeped in religion, but never asking WWJD?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Maybe Since He's Broke He Should Just "Casey Anthony" It

:sarcasm:

[Maru Kitteh]

44. Only if he's white and REALLY cute - otherwise he could get punished. nt

[Divernan]

24. Any anti-abortion types should give this guy $10 every time they see him

Put their money where their mouths are. Or if they don't believe his sign, they could give him baby food and boxes of Pampers instead of cash.

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. The comments are disgusting! And outright LIES! Welfare Queens!

:puke:

[EC]

31. Many that are poor now, in 2008 were middle class

and are trying to hang on to what they DO have left. Including their homes, cars, tv's etc. - they ARE poor now, just haven't been forever...


And then there are those poor who know how to stretch a dollar and get things for near nothing. Like TV's and furniture on the curb on garbage day or food in restaurant bins, etc...sure life is easy when you're broke.:sarcasm:

[Ship of Fools]

32. I've been of the mindset of late

that the intention is not to destroy the middle class, but to redefine the parameters of class. Preparing us for the great austerity experiment and probable water wars and all that tommy-rot. Oh, and the unknowns about Fukushima and future fuck-ups.

Just one woman's opinion.

[TwilightGardener]

36. They're redefining it down, that's for sure. I mean, if you have a Mr. Coffee

and a teevee set, what more could you want in life? You're livin' large!

[Urban Prairie]

34. If the Heritage Foundation and those of their ilk would have their unimpeded way

Tens of millions more in the US truly WILL become dirt-poor and homeless.

That is, IF many don't eventually wind up in prison due to committing crimes in an increasingly desperate effort to survive.

[Divernan]

37. Tent cities or shipping containers - will those count as homes by the end of O's 2nd term

in the glorious new Third Way democracy?

[Occulus]

40. Shipping containers already are being used as housing with great success.

Of course, they're fixed up so they can meet building codes, but used shipping containers actually do make good housing material.

Check out this one:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04/shipping-container-house-ross-stevens.php

I like how the containers are built to naturally stack. This one isn't finished on the inside, either; much of the interior surface of the container itself is visible. I'm not sure if I'd like that, but the interior stairway going up right next to the bare rock wall of the cliff is pretty awesome.

Climate control must be a problem with this design. It's unique, though.

edit: here's one with a more conventional look:

http://www.thecoolist.com/cordell-house-shipping-container-architecture/

[Divernan]

42. Those are very creative adaptations, but obviously expensively sited and finished.

I just took a class in urban architecture and saw some very innovative use of containers.

On the other hand, they could just be stacked with exterior staircases, no windows, packed with too many people and be damned grim. They are used to smuggle people as well - reminding me of the railway cars taking people to concentration camps.

[Divernan]

41. Law firms are hiring new law grads for $24 an hour for "contract work" - no benefits, of course

Although nominally retired, I keep my law license active, requiring I take Continuing Legal Education courses. Was talking to some other older attorneys at one of these classes last week. They were hoping to get hired by these law firms for document review, at $24.00 an hour. Then the ultimate clients are billed upwards of $200 an hour. Pretty sweet for the law firms. How are new lawyers going to pay off their student loans? Answer: Most of them aren't.

If you have a friend or relative with a goal or dream of going to law school, and unless they are independently wealthy, do them a favor and tell them to save their tuition money and find something else to do.

[SoCalDem]

49. It's like that in many professions, I'm afraid

My son is a large equipment operator, and when the steel mill he worked for went from three 8s a day to one, his and another shift were entirely eliminated. He went from making over $60K a year to longterm unemployment. he finally found "a job" but it was from a TEMP service, and he was then making $15.00 an hour for waste management...no benefits..long/erratic hours.

He made MORE on unemployment.

He's got a new job now , but still making less than half of what he did 4 years ago...:(

[IndyPragmatist]

69. Some of that has to fall on the law student

The data is out there, and has been for years, the market for lawyers is terrible. We are saturated with lawyers, and its forcing a lot of new grads who had high ambitions to get into the lesser fields like personal injury law or public defense. It happens all the time. My friends thought I was crazy for not going into law school after undergrad. I told them they were crazy. Some have done well, but most have not. They have $100k+ in loans and little job prospects.

People just bought into the lies that the law schools were spewing. They said that law school was a great "investment". Many of these schools operate like businesses by filling as many seats as possible and doing their best to make sure everyone gets through. This makes it even worse for intelligent graduates from state law schools, because law firms are seeing the poor quality of many law school grads, and are forced to assume that most graduates from many state law schools fit that mold. Graduates from Ivy League and other top tier law schools are doing fine. Law firms expect them to know their stuff and they get the good jobs.

In time, the best graduates will be fine. They will prove themselves and work their way up the ladder. But because so many people are graduating from law school each year, you have to be from a top school to get jobs that were often available to state school graduates 20 years ago.

I may sound like a right-winger here, but you have to take responsibility for yourself in some situations. If you do some research, which any good lawyer should do, you would know that law school isn't the guarantee of success that it once was. You either have to get into a top school or really stand out from the crowd to ensure success at a young age.

I hope that you do what you say, and at least inform anyone considering law school to do their research. If its something they are really serious about it, thats fine. However, far too many people are going into law because they don't know what they want to do with their lives and it gives them 3 more years to figure that out under the illusion that their law degree will always provide them with financial security.

[Initech]

54. Heritage Foundation = more Koch Krap

[Blasphemer]

56. They won't be satisfied until we are all living in cardboard boxes

Then they will tell us that since the boxes provide shelter and the garbage can with the burning paper provides heat, all of our basic needs are covered and we are not really poor.

[Capitalocracy]

66. Any modifier before "steady supply of food" means you're poor. And...

what if we don't have those things? I don't have a coffeemaker or a car. Do I count as poor?

And if I'm not poor, oh wise Heritage Foundation, why can't my foreign wife move to the U.S. with me? Maybe they should change the financial requirements so us not-as-poor-as-we-thought folks can marry who we like.