The gang of 6, or the Bowles/Simpson plan will happen, and there is nothing we can do about it. I

[still_one]

really hope someone challenges Obama in the primaries.

It is ironic that the republicans are getting what they wanted all along. Tax cuts for the wealthy, and social security and medicare on the cutting block

[emulatorloo]

1. We can call our congress people. Congress is where laws are passed.

Obama does not pass laws.

[jtown1123]

2. He is the lead Democratic negotiator on this deal, no? But yes, we need to call our reps

[emulatorloo]

8. Yes. Additionally, something is going to have to come out of the house. Teabaggers wield a lot of

power there.

However that does not mean that it won't be modified in the Senate.

My Dem senator is one of the most liberal ones out there. My Rep senator is allegedly a champion of Seniors. So I am bugging both of those guys, mostly the Republican.

[jschurchin]

7. Bwahahahahaha!!!!!

We can call our congress people.

Oh stop it brother your killing me, bwahahahahaha!!!!!!

[emulatorloo]

10. They pass the laws. I am not giving up. If you want to laugh knock yourself out.

[CleanGreenFuture]

17. How can you possibly continue to be so naive after at least 9 years

of observation? That's just your time on DU.

[jschurchin]

20. Remember TARP?

90 fucking percent of US wrote,called, etc. over and over again pleading with our "representatives" NOT TO GIVE THE FUCKING BANKERS ON WALL STREET OUR MONEY. What did they do? The Big FUCK YOU PEOPLE.

And you think they changed? Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

[hfojvt]

28. 90% of who wrote and called?

90% of the public? I find that impossible to believe. 90% of DUers? I still find it impossible to believe. Where do you get this 90% figure?

[jschurchin]

40. You are correct.

It wasn't 90%. Here is a link to an article from the time. Check out who thought it was a wonderful idea.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/97644-who-is-for-and-against-the-700-billion-bailout

[Dept of Beer]

25. Do you understand the role of the three branches of government?

[CleanGreenFuture]

15. I know, right? Funny. We need to do more than call anymore. We need to

take it to them personally. By the millions.

But, alas, only a very small number of American citizens are even paying attention. Which means the rest of America doesn't give a shit.

[jschurchin]

33. I know.

In fact, ‘fiscal austerity’ is a state-implemented program of social destruction, or ‘social genocide’. Such austerity measures include cutting social spending, which means no more health care, education, social services, welfare, pensions, etc. This directly implies a massive wave of layoffs from the public sector, as those who worked in health care, education, social services, etc., have their jobs eliminated. This, naturally, creates a massive growth in poverty rates, with the jobless and homeless rates climbing dramatically. Simultaneously, of course, taxes are raised drastically, so that in a social situation in which the middle and lower classes are increasingly impoverished, they are then over-taxed. This creates a further drain of wealth, and consumption levels go down, further driving production levels downward, and (local) private businesses cannot compete with foreign multinational conglomerates, and so businesses close and more lay-offs take place. After all, without a market for consumption, there is no demand for production.

This is from an article about Greece, but doesn't it sound like what the gang of 6 wants to impliment and "our" President seems to endorse?

Cut Social spending and taxes for the wealthy, that will "solve" everything.

Americans need to wake the fuck up, but I agree with you, most are sleep walking. FUCK ME!!!!!

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article29316.html

[Lorien]

9. If he's completely useless then why support him? Bush passed plenty

with a DEM congress.

[emulatorloo]

16. Bush didn't pass laws either. Congress did.

You remember checks and balances from high school, right?

Congress passes laws, President signs or vetos them. The bills originate in the Congress.

[CleanGreenFuture]

19. Do you think we don't know who passes laws? Really?

[emulatorloo]

26. I am not talking to you.

[Dept of Beer]

What part of "President signs or vetos them" are you

having trouble with?

Congress does not twist the arm of the executive.

[emulatorloo]

34. See my post below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1530217&mesg_id=1530445

Additionally laws get passed only if there are the votes to pass them. Yes president can sign or veto.

[Dept of Beer]

27. echo. delete.

[Lorien]

12. Dupe nt

[Lucian]

14. CALL CONGRESS RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!!!111111ELEVENS!1111!!1

[Dept of Beer]

24. You do understand that he signs them though.

If can veto them, but signs instead, will you put credit where credit is due?

[emulatorloo]

31. Of course I understand that. But many here seem to have forgotten that Congress is key.

I see this especially in the "I will not vote for Obama" threads. When I ask if they are going to push to get solid Dem majorities in the House and Senate in 2012, the only thing I hear is crickets.

[Dept of Beer]

36. No. All three branches of government are key.

Thee is nobody holding a gun to Obama's head in signing anything. He has the veto pen, but if he doesn't use it then he is as much to blame if SS and Medicare go south.

I have become truly jaded over the past decade, but now it appears that I will have even more reason to be that way if SS and Medicare are cut.


If that happens they who do you feel really represents you?

[emulatorloo]

41. Court does not come into play until a bill is signed into law

They don't rule on bills or plans. They rule on actual laws.

My first post argues for calling our Congresspeople rather than just giving up. There is no point in calling the courts.

People are arguing that putting pressure on congresspeople is ridiculous or a stupid idea. This is why I am emphasizing the role of Congress.

I get the feeling you are not in denial about the role Congress plays, But some appear to be.

If there are no cuts to SS benefits/Medicare benefits etc, how will you feel?

[SugarShack]

49. Obama is a dispicable president...nuff said. THE WORST!

[HockeyMom]

3. They will blame OBAMA and the Democrats for the SS

and Medicare cuts, while telling their base that THEY didn't raise taxes. It's a big propaganda coup for them.

[Karmadillo]

5. Given that the Democrats run as protectors of SS & Medicare, they would deserve that blame.

nt

[jtown1123]

6. Absolutely. Which is why it;s obvious this is what he wanted all along.

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/07/19/obama-wants-to-cut-medicare-and-social-security-benefits/

[HockeyMom]

29. Raising the age for Medicare

will mean that come 2014, these Senior will now have to BUY their own health insurance whereas they would have been covered with Medicare. This is more money for the INSURANCE COMPANIES. Again, money for the rich and corporations.

This man is a Democrat?

[SammyWinstonJack]

43. Of course he wanted this all along. He said as much, that he would

target 'entitlement' programs to reduce the deficit. And that was way before his catfood commission, his buddies, the 'gang of six'.

[Lint Head]

4. I know this sounds cynical but the reality is he has already been

President once. He is set for life. What interest does he really have any getting any progressive agendas passed. It's no skin off his nose.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theophilus]

13. We'll see about that! I don't want to take a defeatist attitude. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

18. It is evident that all of us sit under the ever-growing shadow of a great swindle.

A swindle perpetrated by a corporate ruler class which has grown to the point of eclipsing the power of our mere votes. Every one of us should spend time, if not fighting to stop what may be unstoppable, but preparing for our families' security in the coming months and years.

:(

PB

[vi5]

21. Catfood Commission didn't pass?

Oh never mind. They'll just think of some other back door way to pass it no matter what.

Remember when all the cheerleaders/apologists were saying "Oh who cares what the Bowles/Simpson plan says? It's not binding, it didn't get a consensus, and Obama only did it to give himself cover. He's never going to implement those changes or approve them."

So wrong. So much. So many times.

[Dept of Beer]

22. Ultimately, if signed into law, it will be the Obama plan.

There's no arguing that point.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Or.....Obama could veto any bill that cuts benefits.

Hell, he could even "negotiate" from that position.

Despite the cries of the woodchucks, the executive does have the power to negotiate from a position of strength. He would also have the backing of the American people who don't want benefit cuts and do want to raise taxes on the rich.

I'm getting very weary of the "poor president has no power and has to compromise" bullshit.

[Dept of Beer]

32. As a talking point this is one of the most sophomoric positions.

It is apparent that the PTB have employed very poor talking points to be disseminated by lesser paid trolls.

[emulatorloo]

39. There's no need to oversimplify in order to demonize some DU'ers

I have no idea what is going to happen with the Gang of 6 atrocity.

Should it pass the house though, this is what I think the scenario will be.

Senate Dems will not pass it unmodified. Obama and Senate Dems will be part of that push to modify it and take out the most egregious parts out of it.

The fact is some kind of bill has to come out of the House. That is the way it works. That does not mean that the House bill will be passed by the Senate wholesale.

Personally I hope the gang of 6 thing fails in the house. If it doesn't then it is up to the Dems to modify the fuck out of it.

[Dept of Beer]

42. It is a sophomoric argument.

[emulatorloo]

46. Sophmoric to suggest calling/contacting our Reps & Senators?

Rather than giving in to the nihilism of the Original Post?

That is what I am being trashed for in this thread. Seems odd to me.

Oh by the way, the predictible outcome has occured:


-------------------------

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x715717

Senate GOP leadership aide: Obama killed 'Gang of Six' by embracing it


snip - --A Senate Republican leadership aide emails with subject line “Gang of Six”: “Background guidance: The President killed any chance of its success by 1) Embracing it. 2) Hailing the fact that it increases taxes. 3) Saying it mirrors his own plan.”

--------------------------------------

More at link

[Dept of Beer]

50. Tierra_y_Libertad understands

I'm getting very weary of the "poor president has no power and has to compromise" bullshit.

[Faryn Balyncd]

30. This bill must be defeated. Call your Congressman and Senators .

[dionysus]

35. there isn't a bill, and the CBO wouldn't have time to score it before the deadline.

don't be a defeatist. if you think this is goingto happen, try to stop it. wallowing in misery and tryingto bring others down isnt helping.

[still_one]

38. I hear you, but it is going the way the HCR was crafted /nt

[ProSense]

37. Looks like

House Democrats leave door open to 'Gang of Six' debt framework

...you're right!

[still_one]

45. Except for a few tea party elements in the house, the republicans want this too /nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

44. Hit the phones -

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, DNC head
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

White House
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]

Harry Reid
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

John Boehner
Washington, DC 20515
[phone]
[phone] fax

Eric Cantor
P: 202.225-2815
F: 202.225-0011

Mitch McConnell
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Nancy Pelosi
Phone: [phone]

On edit:

Here is the Gang of Six to add to the mix:

Tom Coburn
Main: 202-224-5754
Fax: [phone]

Mike Crapo
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Kent Conrad
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Saxby Chambliss
Main: 202-224-3521

Mark Warner
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Dick Durbin
[phone] - phone
[phone] - fax

[emulatorloo]

47. Inevitable? "Senate GOP leadership aide: Obama killed 'Gang of Six' by embracing it"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/20/996601/-Senate-GOP-leadership-aide:-Obama-killed-Gang-of-Six-by-embracing-it?detail=hide&via=blog_1

ED JUL 20, 2011 AT 08:40 AM PDT
Senate GOP leadership aide: Obama killed 'Gang of Six' by embracing it
by Jed Lewison

Mike Allen writes:

--A Senate Republican leadership aide emails with subject line “Gang of Six”: “Background guidance: The President killed any chance of its success by 1) Embracing it. 2) Hailing the fact that it increases taxes. 3) Saying it mirrors his own plan.”

====================================================================================================================================

I'm not sure whether to say thank you to that leadership aide, or to say fuck you. I guess, both.


------

Link to politico story Jed Lewison quotes:

http://www.politico.com/playbook/0711/playbook1485.html

DU thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x715717

[damntexdem]

48. Really looking that way.

None of the perpetrators deserves to be reelected.