Can a Playground Be Too Safe? Experts say kids need "risky play"

[Liberal_in_LA]

CHILDHOOD RELIC Jungle gyms, like this one in Riverside Park in Manhattan, have disappeared from most American playgrounds in recent decades.

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His philosophy seemed reactionary at the time, but today it’s shared by some researchers who question the value of safety-first playgrounds. Even if children do suffer fewer physical injuries — and the evidence for that is debatable — the critics say that these playgrounds may stunt emotional development, leaving children with anxieties and fears that are ultimately worse than a broken bone.

“Children need to encounter risks and overcome fears on the playground,” said Ellen Sandseter, a professor of psychology at Queen Maud University in Norway. “I think monkey bars and tall slides are great. As playgrounds become more and more boring, these are some of the few features that still can give children thrilling experiences with heights and high speed.”

After observing children on playgrounds in Norway, England and Australia, Dr. Sandseter identified six categories of risky play: exploring heights, experiencing high speed, handling dangerous tools, being near dangerous elements (like water or fire), rough-and-tumble play (like wrestling), and wandering alone away from adult supervision. The most common is climbing heights.

“Climbing equipment needs to be high enough, or else it will be too boring in the long run,” Dr. Sandseter said. “Children approach thrills and risks in a progressive manner, and very few children would try to climb to the highest point for the first time they climb. The best thing is to let children encounter these challenges from an early age, and they will then progressively learn to master them through their play over the years.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/science/19tierney.html

[The Straight Story]

1. Well, we could allow people to smoke at playgrounds

:hide: :rofl:

[originalpckelly]

17. Fuck that, we need to have a mandatory smoking program.

If those kids aren't at a pack a day, they shouldn't move on past the 3rd grade.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. I remember playing on a jungle gym like that one.

And there was also this merry-go-round contraption that was a big flat steel disk that pivoted at the center, and you'd pull it around as fast as you could and then jump on it and spin until you got dizzy. Usually the metal surface was really hot, and sometimes we'd fall off onto the gravel underneath it. It was fun, though. I don't know if any of those are still around.

[Liberal_in_LA]

4. I remember the spinning thing. Havent seen one in decades. Played on a monkey bars that

was a lot less complex than the one in the picture. Yeah, we'd fall sometimes and injure ourselves on the asphalt. Now they have this spongy material under the bars.

[Drale]

6. The only place I know that still has one is

Minocqua, Wisconsin, or at least as of last year they still had one in their lake front park.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minocqua,_Wisconsin

[Kali]

3. I will never forget

the time my son got in trouble for CLIMBING on the playground equipment. (he was shimmying up a support pole instead of the bright plastic ladder)

:wtf:

[Brickbat]

5. I agree with this. Children need to learn how to take risks, and they are generally pretty self-

regulating. Generally.

[Kali]

7. yes

they need to eat some dirt and play UNSUPERVISED (or at least not hovered over)

the ones that are nuts will hurt themselves anyway - padding or not

I am so shocked at how over protective people are - and then meeting the adults that have been raised that way - ugh. Helpless, entitled assholes.

[TheWraith]

10. Precisely. And, conversely, it makes them safer in the long run.

A child can learn how far they can push themselves, and what's safe, when failure is relatively harmless, instead of later on doing stupid things when they get older.

[leveymg]

8. I really loved the carousels. You don't see those anymore.

Used to shriek with laughter when the big kids would get the thing spinning like the impeller in a jet engine and we could barely still hang on from the centripetal force.

That, and launching off the long swings at the top of the swing. Teacher's wouldn't allow that today. Also used to love climbing the baseball diamond backstop, until I fell and broke my lower leg. But, so what - I had to spend the next summer in a cast, but still had fun playing kickball - I could really wallop the ball with my plaster cast, and everyone wanted me on their team. There were no lawsuits, we all just took broken bones, bruises and cuts in stride as part of growing up. I'm still proud of my scars.

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/153391/153391,1212514930,5/stock-photo-a-playground-merry-go-round-in-the-grass-13344022.jpg

It was my teens - hotrods, small sports cars, motorcycles, and climbing microwave transmission towers and trees that was really dangerous. G-force and height freak - probably learned behavior from the carousels and backstops. Amazing I survived, but it's part of who I am now. I wouldn't want it to have been any other way.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. Yup, that thing!

The one I remember was painted bright colors. And it really got hot.

[leveymg]

21. I probably got addicted to G-forces on those. Go-carts and bikes also fed a craving for

road racing and other risky behaviors in multi-colored toys. But, I wouldn't have been the same person without enjoying risks.

[tridim]

30. I built my own Go-Kart out of 2x4's, angle iron and an old engine I found in a barn.

No helmet, no seat belt, no brakes, no suspension. It was awesome, and an obvious death trap.

I guess it taught me to learn the machine before pushing it. I never got more than a bruise or two.

[leveymg]

38. Awsome. The things you build yourself are always the most meaningful

and valuable.

I love auto junkyards. Treasure troves, really. The real joy is seeing stuff run again that others had thrown away.

Never pay retail.

[izquierdista]

40. Go to Africa

They are getting very popular there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv1V5gV_nRQ&feature=related

[leveymg]

43. Tools out of toys. Play power, not work! What a concept.

I can definitely embrace that approach. :thumbsup:

[FLPanhandle]

9. I agree with this, but the inevitable lawsuits mean it can't happen.

As soon a little Jimmy breaks an arm and the school/city is sued, it's back to bubble wrap for the kids.

[tridim]

11. That jungle gym is pretty epic

Ours was about half that size, but still made of galvanized pipe. I'm sure I hit my head more than once.

Our swings were awesome, and oh-so dangerous. We used to swing as high as possible and jump at the apex. I could even do a back flip off the swing. The teachers didn't seem concerned at all.

[FLPanhandle]

13. Our teachers weren't even around

They spent recess in the lounge smoking.

[originalpckelly]

14. Yeah, I personally think they are too fucking safe.

A few burns from hot metal and a missing finger or two adds character, if you ask me. Couple broken bones? Yep, need those motherfuckers. That'll teach your ass to jump from the top of it on to the cement.

Same thing goes for wood shop. What the fuck good is a wood shop if you can't have a life threatening injury? It's no fun to talk about woodshop when everyone comes out alright at the end. Fuck no, a good story about someone cutting off their hand, it flying across the room, and landing on the shoulder of the girl they liked, and her thinking he was making moves, makes for a damn good story. Compare that too, "Yeah, I made a key hanger." Give me a break, which one sounds better later on down the line? You know it's the one with the hand flying off, don't fucking lie to me!

And when it comes to bullying, same thing. After all, we do have an obesity epidemic. I think it's primarily caused by a lack of bullying. After all, most kids used to lose some lunch money to the bullies, thus depriving them of food every once and a while, contributing to a slimmer population. And of course, on one cannot underestimate the cardiovascular benefits of running all the way home from school being chased by a bully.

And no one remembers how the bullies used to invest their stolen lunch money and learn how to become wall street robbers. If we don't do that, who will steal from us when we get older, right?

Just a bunch of panzies these days, with their child safety.

And what about lead paint? Perhaps that's the problem with the younger kids, they're too fucking smart and they are catching wise as to how badly they're getting fucked. I say we put lead back in everything, in fact we ought to make that shit part of the food pyramid, or weird plate system like they have now. A little brain damage from heavy metals never hurt anyone, now did it?

And what of toys that have no parts to come off a choke a kid? How are people supposed to learn the Heimlich maneuver if they don't have someone to practice on every once and a while?

We need more danger: damn straight tooten rooten USA Patriotic stuff whatever.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

22. You are overreacting. There needs to be a reasonable middle ground

between situations that are unreasonably dangerous and those that are ridiculously overprotective. I think it's a good idea to have playgrounds with rubberized surfaces rather than gravel or asphalt. I think it's a good idea to prohibit lead paint and to be require playground equipment to be sturdy and without edges. On the other hand you can't keep kids in a bubble forever. They do need the change to explore and experiment, and sometimes there might be some risks. Maybe there will be some skinned knees and bruises. Of course we need to do what we can reasonably do to prevent serious foreseeable injuries, but if a kid can't learn to appreciate and understand some level of risk his expectations about life in general could be pretty unrealistic.

[originalpckelly]

24. Oh bullshit, they're a bunch of sissies.

In my day, you never knew if you were going to get out of the slide with all of your skin intact. It was exhilarating! It's like gambling, only instead of losing your shirt, you lose perfectly formed youthful skin!

And what kind of scraped knee is it, if it doesn't have some gravel embedded in it?
We must think of the antibiotic manufacturers!

We cannot underestimate the value of 1 inch splinters either. After all, I think it increases the bond between mother and child when she worries to death about the kid over a splinter that's gushing blood!

[leveymg]

35. What's really character building is coming back a year or two later and beating up the bullies

I was a real target for bullying in Jr. High. Long haired hippie freak, John Lennon glasses, Nehru Jacket, peace symbol medallion, Eugene McCarthy bumper sticker on my note books - the works. Really pissed off the Italian kids from the other side of the tracks whose fathers were cops and older brothers were going off to the Nam. I was a pacifist, and mouthy. A little scrawny peacenik who quoted Gandhi and Martin Luther King, and it drove them nuts - and they really took it out on me. One time after a pep rally, 10 or 15 of them chased me down and dragged me behind the bleachers. But, no permanent damage done - at least, except to my glasses that were broken in two and that little cut on my temple.

I then had a little encounter with the juvenile justice system and was sent away to a private school that encouraged football, boxing, hockey and Lacrosse. Much more emphasis on muscular Christianity and far less on turning the other cheek. Nobody seemed to take much notice that I was not Christian, and I learned quickly that outside of Freshman Latin Class and Philosophy, nobody was particularly impressed by quotations. That also coincided with the onset of adolescence, so when I returned to public High School a year later my voice was an octave lower, and I put on about 35 pounds of upper body weight.

One afternoon early in my Sophomore year at the local High School, I was hanging out smoking cigarettes and noticed a little crowd was beginning to develop in the parking lot. Two of my schoolmates were amusing themselves by breaking mirrors and tailpipes off of parked cars, while some of the crowd egged them on. Most of the kids just stood there quietly, watching. My reaction was different you see, I like cars, and don't like mindless destruction - I stepped forward and told them to stop, and they said who was going to make us? Someone pushed me - all I remember after that was my arms moving and one of them going down after the other in slow motion. I then recognized these two as a pair of brothers from Middle School who had tormented me and broken my glasses. Funny thing, nobody was ever violent toward me after that. I also had a whole new set of friends, and nobody ever bothered them when I was around. Finally, I had found the path to peace.

So, yes, I agree that there is benefit to rough play, dangerous stuff, and some pain and fighting should be a mandatory part of growing up.

[XemaSab]

15. Kids need time running around outdoors period

There's a perception that things are more dangerous today than they have ever been, and I think that's nonsense.

Kids got kidnapped and molested in the 50's and earlier, and the only difference is that now you hear about kids being molested halfway across the state whereas before you wouldn't have. Kids are more likely to be molested by relatives or other people the parents think are "safe" than by creepy strangers hanging out in the park.

Man, when I was a kid I went places and did things that my mom really had no idea about. It was a great time, and it gave me a lot of perspective on the world. I used to go to the park, the cemetery, the local vacant lot.. all over the place. This was in Oakland.

[Gabi Hayes]

16. sure. right. like this:

sounds like more RW bullshit from some anti-tort group

anybody seen this yet:

HBO's "Hot Coffe," in which they put the lie to stories like the 81 year old woman disfigured by the 180+degree coffee spilled on her lap. you know the one. the one who became the poster person for tort reform. only problem is, the story that made it into the mainstream media, of which pretty much only one side was told (that of MacDonald's) was pretty much massive BS

LOTS of people here were totally in the dark, as well, if you read discussions on the subject at the time

here. check the trailer, and the quotes. I think there might have been some threads here about the movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBKRjxeQnT4

[originalpckelly]

18. And what about fireworks and matches?

Fireworks teach you to not burn yourself, and matches teach you how to burn your house down. We've seen a massive drop off in houses being burned down, this is in fact the real reason there is a housing glut. Usually, enough kids burn down their houses to make up for an overproduction of houses.

Kids, too safe?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. The study was done at a Norwegian university.

Norwegians tend not to be raging right-wing anti-tort types.

[originalpckelly]

26. They also happen to be able to play outside like one week a year...

so the likelihood that their kids will be seriously hurt on a playground is significantly lower.

[Posteritatis]

29. Does that kind of obtuseness come naturally, or does it take prolonged effort? (nt)

[originalpckelly]

32. Lots of effort to get something to be more than 90*, definitely lots of effort.

[Gabi Hayes]

27. we have more than enough right here to make up their dearth.

those norwegians are too busy committing suicide to be worried about child safety, anyway

so there

[Gabi Hayes]

25. here's a DU thread on Hot Coffe....can't believe all the anti-lawyer stuff building up here already:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x610255

btw, I work at a grade school, and our playground is supposedly child-safe, and kids get hurt ALL the TIME. no lawsuits so far

this is total BULLSHIT

little kids are nuts, and they do crazy stuff all the time; stuff you can't even imagine. like diving off the top of bathroom stalls, and breaking their arms, trying to 'fly'


or jumping from one stair level to the other, just for fun

or throwing scissors at each other

or shining laser pointers into each others' eyes....you can't control most of this stuff

they get all the 'danger' they need to help them 'mature' into 'well-rounded' adults

glad they're bringing back Jarts, are you?

or how about these?

http://www.sampa.com/killer-toys/5-wtf-were-they-thinking-toys-no-1-%e2%80%93-hang-ten-mini-hammock/

[tridim]

19. Anyone else miss diving boards? Especially high-dives?

[demmiblue]

20. Personally, I think that modern-day playgrounds do a great job accomodating all skill levels...

including those with special needs.

:shrug:

[Gabi Hayes]

31. thank you! I'll bring a picture of our playground when school starts

PLENTY'o deathtraps right there

like I said, we get injuries sufficient for nurse/doctor treatment there every week

we don't have a jungle jim as big as the one pictured, but there's something similar, as well as contraptions we didn't have when I was a kid, and there's plenty of danger to be had

it's just better designed....softer corners, softer ground (mulch!), things like that

as I said, they have plenty of opportunity to exorcise their danger demons on the playground

[demmiblue]

41. Yep.

I think a lot of people commenting have not seen modern playgrounds.

Shoot, the slides that exist today would make my inner 10 year old jealous!

And, like I said, many incorporate the needs of all children. The risk takers, the non-risk takers, the disabled, etc. A playground should be able to appeal to all children. Many also incorporate imaginative play... arghh!

:hi:

[cali]

28. Of course. I'm sure many here would think I'm a bad mom because I encouraged

independence in my son from a young age. Had him downhill skiing by age two, x-country by 5- and some pretty long jaunts, at that. He was ice climbing when he was 10, splitting kindling when he was no more than 9. He took off for long hikes with friends when he was still under 10- and the kid has never even had a broken bone. He's had his fair share of abrasions and cuts, but nothing serious. And yes, he played on jungle gyms- they still have them where I live.

[JoePhilly]

33. Give them Lawn Darts, and thin the herd!!!

[leveymg]

44. Bows and arrows, pellet pistols, 22s, and when they're big enough, shotguns.

Somehow, the ones that should reproduce end up doing so, despite our best efforts as parents.

[alphafemale]

34. Well. Those modern playgrounds are rarely in use.

No surprise.

They look boring...boring...boring.

The empty lot the neighborhood association took over to build this boring, plastic piece of got used by lots of kids every day.

[applegrove]

36. Does anyone remember having 'chicken fights' on monkey bars? That is where you'd

hang from some bars and try and wrap your legs around your opponents waist. Then you'd squeeze the daylights out of them until they either said uncle or fell.

[surrealAmerican]

37. A big part of what I've observed around here ...

... at least in public parks, is changing the age the playground is built for. Playgrounds that were built for ten-year-olds are being remodeled for three-year-olds. That may or may not be in response to demand, but it certainly has the effect of excluding the older children.

[Posteritatis]

42. I think it's more that they're treating the ten-year-olds like three-year-olds. (nt)

[wildeyed]

39. They took out the diving board at our local community pool.

And not the high dive either, the dinky regular diving board because, they say, it was a liability issue. Replaced it with a super-lame water slide that nobody likes.