Loughner's parents described as loners father argumentative with neighbors

[RamboLiberal]

Another neighbor directly across from the home also did not want to give his name, but said a mother, son and father live at the house.

"They weren't real friendly," said the neighbor who described himself as 60 and retired. They mostly didn't talk to anyone and mainly stayed inside. "Loners," he called them.

Another neighbor, Anthony Woods, who was three years behind Loughner in school, said the father in the household was argumentative.

Woods said the dad would complain about everything from neighbors' trash cans on the street to standing too close to his property by the fence. Woods said law enforcement interviewed the mother and father at the Loughner house Saturday night.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/09/arizona-suspected-gunman-no-stranger-to-trouble/

[geckosfeet]

1. No kidding? I would never have expected that.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm:
:sarcasm: :sarcasm:
:sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Unrec. Their son was an adult who chose to kill people.

It is certainly not their fault and their neighbors opinions are no more than gossip.

Yuck. Just saw this came from Fox, who is promoting the 'He's crazy, not a right winger' myth.

:puke:

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

4. No they are NOT criminally culpable, but the KID was 22

... and lived at home... and his home life can be an indicator of where he was in his life.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. My adult children live at home. Are you going to judge me now?

Oldest one moved back when he was laid off. I suppose that makes us bad parents?

[RamboLiberal]

7. No but if you see your son is mentally ill & buys a gun

You are liable. And Pima Community College did communicate with them that their son needed a mental health evaluation before he returned to college.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. And you're sure they didn't see that he got that evaluation?

He's an adult anyway. Legally their hands are tied. They can't force him to do anything.

And honestly, we don't know WHAT they did or did not do. Until we know, I'm not judging them.

[RamboLiberal]

6. Actually they can end up being responsible in a civil case

If they knew he was mentally ill & if they knew he had purchased a gun. We had a caae like this in Pittsburgh. And Baumhammers legally bought his gun just like this shooter.

Nine years after Richard S. Baumhammers went on a racially motivated killing rampage, the civil court saga came to an end last month with a quiet settlement paid out from the killer's family to those of his six victims.

Mr. Baumhammers, who turns 44 tomorrow, is on death row for the April 2000 shooting deaths of Anita Gordon, 63, of Mt. Lebanon; Anil Thakur, 31, of Bihar, India; Ji-Ye "Jerry" Sun, 34, of Churchill; Thao Q. Pham, 27, of Castle Shannon; and Garry Duane Lee, 22, of Aliquippa; and for injuring Sandip Patel. The 32-year-old Ross man died in 2007 from complications related to quadriplegia.

Parents Andrejs and Inese Baumhammers agreed to pay each family of the deceased a little more than $130,000, a total of $785,000 to put the case to rest. Richard Baumhammers was living in Mt. Lebanon with his parents at the time of the killings.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09136/970618-455.stm#ixzz1AZYXhcDA


The victims alleged that the parents were negligent in their failure to procure adequate mental health treatment their son; failure to take their son's handgun away from him; and failure to notify police that he possessed a handgun.

Donegal argued that it had no duty to defend or indemnify Baumhammers or his parents in the civil actions filed against them by plaintiffs since the shootings were not accidental but were instead the result of intentional conduct not covered by the policy.

Donegal additionally asserted that if, however, Baumhammers or his parents were entitled to have Donegal defend and potentially indemnify them, the shootings were the result of a single "occurrence."

The high court sought to examine whether the victims' injuries were caused by an "accident" that constituted an "occurrence" under the policy. The high court said that the claims asserted by the plaintiffs contain the degree of fortuity contemplated by the ordinary definition of accident. "The extraordinary shooting spree embarked upon by Baumhammers resulting in injuries to Plaintiffs cannot be said to be the natural and expected result of Parents' alleged acts of negligence. Rather, Plaintiffs' injuries were caused by an event so unexpected, undesigned and fortuitous as to qualify as accidental within the terms of the policy," the court said.

Because the parents' alleged negligence resulted in the tragic accidental injuries to the individual plaintiffs, Donegal is required to defend them, the court ruled.



Read more: http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/east/2007/12/31/86019.htm#ixzz1AZZCRcRK

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. That a fairly rare, was the son previously institutionalized?

[RamboLiberal]

14. I believe he was voluntary

Which allowed him to still buy the gun. Baumhammers also made racist posts on the internet. Only reason I know quite a bit about the case is he murdered a young African American in one of the karate schools of which I was a member at another local branch. Also murdered 2 in a Chinese restaurant near my office and at which I ate many a lunch. I was thinking of eating there that day but I was late getting out & I knew they closed between 3-5.

I don't know how an AZ court would judge vs. a PA court.

There were definitely signs that AZ shooter was mentally ill & I would imagine from all I've read he probably exibited symptoms at home.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

16. PA. should be responsible for allowing mentally ill people

to buy guns. I know many wonderful parents that have struggled with troubled children.
Our society lacks the resources to help families and with further budget cuts the problem
will only get worse.

I think without knowing these people and what they may or may not have been through it's
arrogant to presume they are in any way responsible.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. If a lawsuit is filed

The chances are about slim to none.

[mentalsolstice]

18. I went to law school with Baumhammers

So much for my claim to fame. x(

[RamboLiberal]

20. Was he whacky then?

Amazing he could function to get a law degree.

[mentalsolstice]

23. I was 3rd year when he was 1st year

So I don't know what he was like for the duration. However, no, for that year he was pretty normal or was good about flying under the radar. Any 1st year whackiness was always noted through the grapevine, as that was when it usually manifested itself (students running down the hall crying, developing odd tics, promiscuity amongst the library shelves during finals week, etc.). The school was small so gossip made it's way around quickly. More telling would be how he got through the pressure of taking the bar exam, that's when people really go off their rockers (I speak from experience, my roommate at the hotel where we were staying for the exam went totally unhinged).

[MattBaggins]

15. The kid was clearly crazy

It would appear that he had some right wing views. We will probably be finding out that he had attended some tea party or other crazy meetings but it is still fine to say that the guy was bat shit insane; but then again so is Bachman.

The guys life is part of painting a picture of who he was.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

3. Well it's a start, but it IS Fox News

So what's up with that, the other MSM wait for Fox to state what should be said and then follow suit?

[Darth_Kitten]

8. Nothing wrong with being a loner....

being an introspective human being doesn't create all the violence in this world. :(

[DevonRex]

13. +1. That's an important point. nt

[Darth_Kitten]

17. Thanks.....

:)

[JI7]

19. yeah, but the part about being argumentative and complaining about people

standing too close to his property is something worth discussing. and he probably wasn't introspective but just angry and hated everyone and everything.

the introspective loners you describe wouldn't care about the above. they don't hate people and you can have nice conversations with them also.

[Darth_Kitten]

21. Right....

:)

[murray hill farm]

12. If he lived in their home and was raised by them....

he was influenced by them and it seems reasonable to wonder what were their political views, their views of society about patriotism and what talk radio hate they listened to every day. Not to prosecute them, but just to get a hint of the atmosphere in which he grew up and still lived. It is like seeing kids holding hate signs at the town hall meetings and wondering what chance those kids have to turn into decent human beings. This is not to excuse this shooter...but if the tea bag madness permeates the parents minds and the homes, it might be like second hand smoke. It still kills.

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. And, so?

As an introvert myself, I find it troubling that a lack of social gregariousness is seen as a character flaw and cited as evidence of something being "wrong" when it's found in someone accused of a crime or their immediate family.

[upi402]

24. Yeah, my neighbors are conservatives

I have no love for them recently. I travel for friendship, no problem.

[my2sense]

25. Co-sign

I rarely converse with my neighbors which are overwhelmingly conservative. I don't choose my associates, friends based upon my address.