Philadelphia heirs lose fight with government over 1933 gold coins worth millions

[cbdo2007]

By Associated Press, Published: July 20

PHILADELPHIA — A jury has decided the U.S. government rightfully seized a set of rare 1933 gold coins from a Philadelphia family.

The verdict Wednesday caps an unusual civil case that combined history, coin collecting and whether the $20 “double eagles” legally left the U.S. Mint.

Prosecutors say the coins never circulated when the country went off the gold standard — and were therefore stolen.

But 81-year-old Joan Langbord argues that her late father, a jeweler, could have acquired them legally.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/philadelphia-heirs-lose-fight-with-government-over-1933-gold-coins-worth-millions/2011/07/20/gIQANj6LQI_story.html

[newfie11]

1. possession is 9/10 of the law

this must be the 1/10

[petronius]

9. I think 'being the government' is the other 1/10

The article is incredibly scant on detail, but it seems to me that the burden for the gov't should have been to prove that the coins actually left illegally, not that they merely didn't know if they left legally. Perhaps they did that, but it doesn't say.

Since another 1933 coin did sell as the article says, it's obvious that there was at least some legal avenue for them to be obtained...

[no_hypocrisy]

2. This is interesting b/c I remember radio ads on talk radio (progressive and conservative)

selling "never circulated rare 1933 gold coins". Now let's assume the coins were genuine (I doubt whether the owners would sell on the radio instead of established collectors) and the same as the ones possessed by the family in Philadelphia, the purchasers of those coins would face confisgation by the federal government (history repeating itself).

[NV Whino]

3. Stealing from a mint is virtually impossible

And if the jury is declaring "uncirculated" coins as having never left the mint and therefore stolen, that's going to produce a hell of a lot of criminals... including me.

[yellowcanine]

7. Not ANY uncirculated coins - just these specific 1933 Double Eagles.

As you stated, stealing from a mint is virtually impossible. One of the reasons for that is that mints keep meticulous records about what is produced and what is released to banks for circulation. So if the prosecutors presented evidence that this lot of 1933 Double Eagles were never released from the mint then the government has a good case. At least a case good enough for the jury. I am assuming that there must have been some provenance with the coins that bolstered the government's case - such as the original packaging materials.

[NV Whino]

4. And another thought

Even if they were stolen, what is the statute of limitations on (what I assume is) grand theft. Bear in mind the value of the coins at the time of theft would have been $20 each. This is a very sticky case.

[gateley]

5. The jury was "sticking it to the rich". Maybe. But I think the verdict

sucks, and the only coins I have are in my wallet and soon to be spent. Hide yours!

[yellowcanine]

8. It is a civil case, not a criminal one. It is a question of ownership.

Ownership of stolen goods doesn't change just because the statute of limitations on the theft/receiving stolon goods has run out. For the coins to pass legally to the heirs they have to have been legally acquired. Current value vs face value is irrelevant to the civil case regarding legal ownership.

[Broderick]

6. This case disturbs me

[Historic NY]

10. Sotheby auction of World Trade double eagle...

<snip>
"Coins are not money until it's monetized -- until the Treasury says they're money," Redden said. "They weren't legal to spend. It was simply a bright gold round disc. They were by order of the Treasury in 1937, melted down."

But some coins escaped destruction: The Secret Service discovered years later that George McCann, the Mint's chief cashier, had stolen 10 of the coins.

In 1944, agents for Egypt's King Farouk -- an eccentric collector of stamps, aspirin bottles, old razor blades and coins -- applied for an export license for a 1933 Gold Double Eagle.

"It wasn't until a few weeks after that license was signed that suddenly everyone realized that an awful mistake had been made," Redden said. "This coin was illegal to own, and in fact clearly had been stolen from the U.S. Mint."
<snip>

http://articles.cnn.com/2002-07-30/us/double.eagle_1_coin-mint-pure-gold?_s=PM:US

[Bombero1956]

11. David Tripp wrote a book about these coins

The book entitled Illegal Tender documents the case of how the Chief Cashier of the Mint in Philadelphia stole the coins from the vault where they were being stored prior to being melted down. In 1944 King Farouk of Egypt purchased a 1933 Double Eagle, and in strict adherence with the law, his ministers applied to the United States Treasury Department for an export license for the coin. Mistakenly, just days before the Mint theft was discovered, the license was granted.

[NV Whino]

12. Okay, now I have it...

a. civil case
b. coins were stolen, but not by the family
c. the government fucked up by issuing the certificate for export