DU is extreme and unrepresentative of Americans.

[woo me with science]

Most Americans will understand that this is the best deal we could have gotten.

[Ruby the Liberal]

1. Subtle!

Rec'd you back to 0

:eyes:

[Autumn]

2. Very good.

Got it to 1.

[indepat]

106. A representative government not responsive in the least to the people they represent

is no longer a legitimate government imo and should be voted out of office in toto. :patriot:

[democrank]

3. K & R

[nashville_brook]

4. k and r

[Greybnk48]

5. Yeah, we're way off the mark for sure. LOL! n/t

[Karmadillo]

6. This data suggests we need a government of the people, who know what needs to be done, and not

a government of the puppets, who know who pays to pull their strings.

[Brigid]

7. Rachel in "teacher" mode:

:loveya:

[Hissyspit]

47. Didn't you hear?

She's a:

"...sick puppy" - George Herbert Walker Bush

[FreakinDJ]

8. Welcome to Insanityville

now go home

[tridim]

9. The President agrees with the people on every one of those issues.

The Republicans Don't.

Thanks for posting this again, woo woo.

[defendandprotect]

48. Obama is ignoring the WILL OF THE PEOPLE ....

[kenny blankenship]

86. He just refuses to stand with them.

[bvar22]

91. Well of course he does.

Everybody knows it is ALL Joe Lieberman's fault.
Lieberman is a Big Bully
who beat up President Obama and the entire Democratic Party Leadership.
There was nothing he could do.
It was HORRIBLE! :cry:


You will KNOW therm by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

[joeybee12]

10. We're actually centrists, but VERY LOUD centrists...knr

[JDPriestly]

42. Yes. I'm on the same page as Eisenhower when it comes

to Social Security. It is our basic social safety net, and it must not be cut.


Document #1147; November 8, 1954
To Edgar Newton Eisenhower
Series: EM, AWF, Name Series ; Category: Personal and confidential
The Papers of Dwight David Eisenhower, Volume XV - The Presidency: The Middle Way
Part VI: Crises Abroad, Party Problems at Home; September 1954 to December 1954
Chapter 13: "A new phase of political experience"

. . . .

Now it is true that I believe this country is following a dangerous trend when it permits too great a degree of centralization of governmental functions. I oppose this--in some instances the fight is a rather desperate one. But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything--even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon "moderation" in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas.5 Their number is negligible and they are stupid.

http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/presidential-papers/first-term/documents/1147.cfm

[Jackpine Radical]

112. It's always good to read that one again.

Thank you.

[valerief]

76. Who is centrist? Not DU. nt

[joeybee12]

78. The center is 70% wanting a public option, 80% getting rid of DADT,

65% not touching Social Security...

[valerief]

83. Oh, you mean the 'people who don't matter' centrist. I thought you meant the DC elite centrist. nt

[joeybee12]

101. Yeah, the definition of centrist is not what the DLC and the media say it is...nt

[spanone]

11. our government is non responsive to our needs and wishes.

this won't go on long

[progressoid]

12. And 98.627% of all liberals support the President!!11!!

K/R

[xiamiam]

27. LOL

[JDPriestly]

115. Because they are afraid of the alternative. That is the only reason.

[provis99]

13. right behind Rachel, it says liberals are only 24% of the population.

So in fact liberals on DU are more extreme than the average American. As for DU itself, judging by the number of Obamabots, DLC plants, and conservative DINOs, DU probably is fairly mainstream.

[Bjorn Against]

33. What makes someone a liberal?

Does simply calling yourself a liberal make you a liberal or does it go deeper than that? I think you probably agree with me that it goes deeper, and that is why I find polls on how many people consider themselves liberal or conservative meaningless. No one defines the word liberal and it is a word that means different things to different people, a person's identification does not mean nearly as much to me as what their stances on the issues are and the polls shown here suggest that we have large majorities that hold progressive views on the big issues of the day.

[Moostache]

41. What makes you a "liberal"?

Self-identifying and NOT caring that the big bad mean conservatives will call you names!

I kid, but in all seriousness, it requires that you believe more in progressive causes than mealy-mouthed "common-ground"....especially when that "common ground" is located to the RIGHT of Reagan and just shy of Grover Norquist and is being touted as "a meaningful compromise"...its NOT a compromise and part of being a self-identifying "liberal" is saying that a spade is a spade and a bullshit capitulation is a bullshit capitulation.

[JDPriestly]

43. I'm an Eisenhower liberal, also an FDR liberal and Truman liberal

and a JFK, RFK liberal.

Obama is a Reagan conservative, maybe to the right of Reagan.

How were we ever fooled to this extent?

[Liberalynn]

62. I'm with you

[GillesDeleuze]

80. yep.

[jwirr]

84. That is where I am at. And I think we comprise more than 24% of the

voters.

[BigDemVoter]

96. I think many of us were fooled. . .

By a shiny package with a slick ad campaign.

NONETHELESS, I firmly believe we're STUCK with Obama, so as angry as I am, I don't see this being resolved with another candidate in his place.

What I really fear is that we're going to weaken Obama (as much as he fucking DESERVES it!)& he'll end up losing to a repig.

SO, I'm not flaming anybody. . . BUT. . . I'm worried that we're going to have to put up or shut up (and folks, yes, it makes me nauseated to have to do this)& just just support him OR risk having somebody like Michelle Bachman in the WH.

It's an unpleasant choice-- support corporate interest whore Obama OR have some know-nothing tea bagger IDIOT, like Palin or Bachman. As much as I dislike Obama, I feel like I'm OBLIGED to support him.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

69. Trying to define liberal...

You are right it goes deeper, being liberal is a life choice. Notice I said liberal, not "a" liberal. Websters' defines the word as being open mined to change.
I will take that one step further. Living an Open-minded life leads you to be Open-Hearted. Being liberal is not just for politics, it is for everything involved in humanity.
It is living a life that invokes the phrase, "Do onto others as you would like them to do unto you." I was raised as a Catholic and have dismissed god and religion in my life,
but that one phrase stays foremost in my mind and in my life. I feel most Americans and world citizens would like that phrase to include them. Do they live that way? No. If so there would be less
of the problems that we have in our world today.

[defendandprotect]

49. Nonsense ... the majority of registered voters across US are LIBERALS ...

This is a liberal nation -- by hidden polls -- and now more frequently than

every by open polls --

The final proof of that is how desperately the rightwing has to control the

conversation and all of media!!

Any iota of truth is a threat to their house of cards -- !!



80% of the public want an end to the wars --

76% of the public -- 83% of Catholcis -- want MEDICARE FOR ALL --


This is corporate/fascism and Obama is not with the people --

[Smarmie Doofus]

14. This merits not only a REC, but also ....

.... an OMMEND.

Thanks.

[derby378]

15. Is Obama caving AGAIN?!?

If so, his administration is useless - let's just give the Republicans everything they want. They derailed health care reform, they preserved the Bush tax cuts, they're going to cut Medicare and Social Security while Mr. Trust Fund Kid gets to flaunt it over all of us...

We are getting annoyed. Yes, we are.

[SugarShack]

20. He would not stand up for single payer, or even a public option, unions, soc sec, medicare, medicaid

who needs obama? this is a real question, no sarcasm here. think about "who" needs him, and get back to me.

[Creideiki]

28. But he will stand up for endless wars in the Middle East

Doesn't that earn him some points?

Maybe the Nobel Committee will give him the Prize for Economics in addition to his Peace Prize.

[defendandprotect]

50. 1000% -- sadly true --

[awoke_in_2003]

87. Republicans are getting exactly what they want...

democrats killing social programs. When we were the opposition party and a repub president tried to do it, the dems put up a hell of a fight. Now? Not so much. I guess only Nixon could go to china.

[Fuddnik]

77. He's not caving.

He's doing what he wanted all along. The tea-baggers and Boner are just creating theater while they drag the whole thing further to the right, and covering Obama politically.

Then Obama, Boner, and the Gang of Six can look like the responsible adults, and everybody is happy.

Everybody except the rest of America.

[RaleighNCDUer]

79. Can you doubt that Cantor was brought into the talks to make Boehner

look reasonable to the public?

[tnlefty]

16. Thank you!!

K & R

[Innoma]

17. Unrec

By accident. It was a drive-by. Apparently, subtlety is not my forte today. Sorry!

[Blasphemer]

18. K&R and Thank you! nt

[bigwillq]

19. K and R (nt)

[chill_wind]

21. Great reminders. Including the DLC/ThirdWay's always coveted Independents.

K & R.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. Does anyone wonder anymore who both parties in Washington work for?

[awoke_in_2003]

88. one party going by two different names. nt

[Rex]

23. Excellent points woo!

The people in charge are not listening to either side...they want their way to be the only way.

[ZombieHorde]

24. Many of us are fringe, but not on every issue.

For example, some of us wish all drugs were legal. I believe this is a fringe stance.

Some of us wish public nudity was legal, which I believe is a fringe stance.

edit to add: recommended

[ProSense]

25. Polls say public swings away from tea party, wants compromise on debt ceiling

Daily Kos: Polls say public swings away from tea party, wants compromise on debt ceiling

[Forkboy]

29. Not if said compromise includes cuts to SS and Medicare.

Lots of pretty pictures though...

[MessiahRp]

35. Ignoring your own chart?

52% don't want Dems to agree to SS/Medicare cuts if it were the ONLY way to get an agreement, which it likely is not.

That "compromise" number you and the Obama talking points crew are pointing too is the same as Republicans' spouting that a "Generic" Republican can defeat Obama in 2012. Once people put a name to the compromise, they specifically are AGAINST taking cuts to SS/Medicare, same as once people put a candidate's name to the Generic Republican, that named candidate is down 20 to Obama instantly.

Nice try though. Spin, spin, spin.

Rp

[Warren DeMontague]

44. I agree. We should balance increased revenue with REAL spending cuts.

We can increase revenue by significantly raising the top marginal tax rate and legalizing and taxing marijuana.
We can cut spending by reducing discretionary military spending by 30-50%, and eliminating all $60 Billion per year spent on the drug war.



See? COMPROMISE! :applause:

[_ed_]

67. Read your own fucking chart! You disprove yourself!

52% of Democrats say definitely/probably no to SS and Medicare cuts.

Maybe you should slow down posting worthless links and pretty photos and actually read what the fuck you post. Propaganda works better when it doesn't specifically refute the point you're trying to make.

[malaise]

26. Good post

Nothing like empirical evidence :applause:

[saras]

30. Americans are extreme and unrepresentative of civilized adult humans.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Thumbs up... VERY GOOD

I like to be extreme!

[socialist_n_TN]

32. "The New Silent Majority".............

So how long are we going to be silent?

[louslobbs]

39. My guess is just until the moment the announcement comes that there will be cuts to SS, Medicare and

Medicaid. I think the silent majority and some of the minority will be jolted awake and will be loud and clear about how upset and disgusted they are that the rich (who do not need it) are continuously given more and more tax breaks and the rest of us are getting benefits cuts to pay for those tax cut bonuses to the wealthy and the fat and happy profit making corporations who seem to make money hand over fist, and still pay little or no taxes. In fact, many of these corporations get tax refunds or government subsidies (corporate welfare). Just like in Wisconsin, where it took the attack on unions for most to wake up, the attack on, and possible cuts to SS, Medicare and Medicaid, should wake people up on a national level......people generally understand that money is being taken away from them (to give to the rich and corporations), when it's happening to them directly and they can actually feel and see the cuts rather than being told lies about "shared sacrifices." I hope these cuts do not take place for the sake of those who depend on these programs to survive, but if these cuts take place and we do nothing except complain, then it will embolden the terrorists (the corporate state)and their bought and paid for government, and we will have to live with their constant threats to force through harmful policy that continues cuts for 98% of us and tax breaks and subsidies for the rich and powerful at the top.
Lou

[socialist_n_TN]

119. I hope so lou, I hope so..........

I do think that we're at a point where there's so much frustration from a MAJORITY (yes I said majority) of the populus over government working FOR capital and NOT for people, that it will only take a spark. And maybe cuts to SS, Medicare, and Medicaid will be the spark. It SHOULD be and maybe it will be. But then I'm an optimist. :)

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[certainot]

36. so you're going to blame obama instead of limbaugh? the right is lock step and living in an alternat

alternate reality. they are dittoheads first, americans last, and team limbaugh has been telling them for months that it will be no big deal if we default. they believe him, even though he/they have been wrong about everything important for 20 years, because the left has never gotten in team limbaugh's face to tell them they're lying. there is NO organized effort to tell those radio stations they're poisoning their communities with GOP/corporate think tank lies and propaganda.

if limbaugh and then hannity and all the rest say the same thing all day from 1000 radio stations to 50 mil a week and there is NO organized effort from the left to challenge their alternate reality why the fuck is all this surprising?

the idiotic part is where the left will blame obama for compromising to avert an economic disaster that the left should blame itself for, instead of obama. the GOP is where it is today because the adults weren't paying attention when the crazy babysitting uncle was reading karl rove/lee atwater poetry to them all day.

if the non compromisers would have obama hold out for default, what then? maybe it's no big deal and the left can use it to fix things. one problem though, is that those 1000 very loud radio stations, the same ones that got us here, will be blasting non stop that it was obama's fault, reaching 50 mil a week, and more in a long term emergency, because they are the loudest megaphones around , easy to turn to on AM and FM, ubiquitous, from the same trusty station that brings you your sports, traffic, and weather.

[grahamhgreen]

40. Heres just one way a president who supports of Dem principals can play it,

He says, "if you don't raise the debt ceiling, I'll remove all the troops from the middle east".

They'd raise it in no time.

[certainot]

63. maybe he is

[awoke_in_2003]

90. and maybe I have a unicorn...

that shits Tiffany cufflinks.

[certainot]

116. i guess you're sceptical

[awoke_in_2003]

117. yeah, sorry if it sounded snarky...

but in this country, war-waging is a truly bi-partisan endeavor :hi:

[certainot]

120. naw, it's a good one

[DCBob]

46. +1

RW talk radio and Faux news is this country's biggest problem. They are brainwashing America 7x24x365.

[marions ghost]

52. Yep...the brainwashing has been SO effective

and in these times when we all have to do research to get any truth, you can understand why the average person of conservative leanings wants a filter like Fox, esp older people who are not computer literate. Go to a nursing or rehab facility and see the legions of older people hooked on Fox as a way to sort out the complexities of life today. It's the backdrop to their lives, their emotional security blanket. Fox assures them that everything is under control.

Liberals have no way to answer that need, that nostalgia, for simpler times. If an individual doesn't see what's going on & how they are being used by the time they're about 40 or so, they won't ever see it. But some of these short-sighted people might have an epiphany at a later age if Congress does go ahead and damage Social Security. The dangerous socialist beast might come back to bite em. (Of course we're not talking about the rich, who have no feelings about what happens to the not-rich).

[certainot]

64. the need for simplicity

http://youtu.be/HnrfuTUlqVs

[mmonk]

37. Yes, they will be very understanding.

[grahamhgreen]

38. Even the most strident compromise supporter can understand those numbers!

[indurancevile]

45. wow. equal percent of pubs & dems oppose cuts to social security.

and in both cases, by a landslide.

[Enthusiast]

51. K&R!

I continually point out that the claim that 'many on DU are extremists' is just way off.

You could also include military spending and the wars. Similar polling.

Okay, what does this tell us?

It tells us that we are centrists, for the most part, at least on the core issues.

It also tells us that those TV talking heads that claim, "This is a center right country." those people are lying. And they know they are lying.

[Duppers]

53. bravo!

Way to go. :)

[MissDeeds]

54. Well done

K&R

[Hubert Flottz]

55. If Obama goes through with this deal...

He will have plenty of time to play checkers after 2012, I just hope he can find somebody that can sit across the table from him without :puke: ing

Edit...Maybe John Edwards or Mr. Weenie.

[demwing]

95. "Maybe John Edwards or Mr. Weenie.."

Who is Mr Weenie? (Anthony Weiner?) and what does he and Edwards have in common with Obama?

[spooked911]

56. the elites don't give a fuck about the people unless we make their lives uncomfortable in some way

have we done that?

[NorthCarolina]

57. K&R

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[russspeakeasy]

73. The most sensible reply to the post. Professional wrestling.

[TxVietVet]

59. The bastards in Washington DON'T LISTEN TO "WE THE PEOPLE"!

Someone please send them a message that a social upheaval may remove them from office PERMANENTLY. :mad:

[Liberalynn]

60. +1

[blkmusclmachine]

61. Too Big To Fail, vs. Too Small To Matter:

Guess who the DC Mafia takes their marching orders from? Time to steal Social Security, because nobody wants to see the top 1% cruising around the Riviera in last week's yacht! Heaven forbid...

[krispos42]

65. Right-click, save, bookmark n/t

[FreeStateDemocrat]

66. It would take a president with more hubris than LBJ had on Viet Nam to ignore this level of public

opinion.

[bertman]

68. I've been WOOED!! and WOWED. Great post. REC. nt

[pam4water]

70. CNN has some stupid poll saying most Americans want program cuts and not to raise

the debt ceiling. I wonder what crevasse they pulled that poll out of.

[russspeakeasy]

107. Wolf's wrinkled ass.

[JackDragna]

71. Great post.

I get tired of those who advocate what was the norm for the party 20 years ago being treated like anarchists.

[Roland99]

72. K & f'n R!

[Frisbee]

74. Somebody needs to email this to Obama....

because if he knew this, surely he wouldn't be selling us out the way he is. :sarcasm:

If he would stand firm on this, he would absolutely destroy any repuke opposition in 2012. Instead he will be an equal part of the damage done to these all-important programs, will receive no competitive advantage for either himself or the congress-people with a "D" after their name (though many probably should have and "R"). Is he really this out of touch with what a VAST majority of Americans want?

[Blacksheep214]

75. Conservatives cannot see stupid!

You listen to Palin, Bachmann, West, Gommert, et al, and wonder where the conscience of the GOP went. They don't stop stupid because they can't see it!

I see stupid therefore I must be a liberal!

[jwirr]

81. Not as extreme and unrepresentative of Americans as they think.

[patrice]

82. The scientific perspective: DU = digits in the internet. nt

[newspeak]

85. being a FDR democrat, I don't consider myself extreme

I consider those who have consistently moved to the right not only extreme, but some down right sociopathic. I thought Obama was going to take it to the people, we are supposed to "make him do the right thing." Isn't that right? But, every time we write, holler, we get the opposite.

Now one who really believed in helping americans instead of wall street would have gone on TV and strongly denounced the repug plan as crazy and further harming americans, especially the elderly. They would have voiced their opinion on what was going to happen to seniors and the disabled on the repug plan-the pain it would cause. How the repug plan was going to further hurt lower-middle income people while the wealthy and corporations would still be taking it to the bank. He could have repeated over and over again that the wealth disparity in this country hasn't been seen since before the great depression. Then he could have informed all americans about ryan's truly screw medicare recipients plan.

And I guarantee you, not only democrats, the majority of the people would be up in arms at congress, especially the house. But hey, that's not the agenda, is it?

[patrice]

103. Good question. "Is it?"

[Romulox]

89. It's the so-called "centrists" who are out of step with America.

As your numbers clearly show. Brava! :applause:

[trud]

92. Who are you voting for in 2012?

Nancy? Howard? I'm writing in, that's for sure. It would be nice if we could pick one candidate.

[patrice]

94. How can anyone verify this statement? nt

[patrice]

93. Re what the DU is: How many people in this thread will attend a Public Education rally

next weekend?

And how can any of us verify your answer to that question?

[SoapBox]

97. K & R

[patrice]

98. Re: What the DU is > I suggest a little reading on gaming theory.

[patrice]

99. What kind of "Liberal" board is hostile to Thom Hartmann? PC-ness =/= Liberal. nt

[Taverner]

100. The rich keep their tax cuts, taxes go down for corporations, huge cuts in medicare and SS

If this is winning, I think I'd rather lose

And don't get me wrong - this is not Obama's fault. His alternative was to let us default.

Rock, meet hard place.

I give up.

[trud]

109. yes it is Obama's fault

A much better president pointed at his desk and said "The buck stops here."

[Taverner]

110. Yes but we don't get those kinds of people in office anymore

And we won't

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patrice]

104. Who is anyone here? What's your name? or am I not allowed to ask? nt

[hifiguy]

105. You have to understand that Obama and most other elected officials

are paid extremely well by their corporate masters to deny every one of these absolute and unavoidable facts. What the plutocrats want the plutocrats shall get, the public be damned.

[TBF]

108. Excellent work, Woo. nt

[bobburgster]

111. Hope Congress has seen this! n/t

[NuttyFluffers]

113. K&R for truth

and the truth will set you free.

[lob1]

114. Proud to be rec 400.

[doublethink]

118. What A Disconnect !!

Bohener .......

"In the end, we couldn't connect," Boehner wrote. "Not because of different personalities, but because of different visions for our country. The president is emphatic that taxes have to be raised. The president is adamant that we cannot make fundamental changes to our entitlement programs."







You tell me? Am I missing something here? Boehner is just not "connecting with the President" as he states..... but he's freaking Disconnected with the American People .... Period. Hahaha like that's a surprise. Republicans do not represent the American People Period. They represent Corporate Interests and the 1 % Wealthy that are boohoohooing about a tax increase to pay their fair share or whatever you wanna call it ...... time for some popcorn. :popcorn:

Thanks 'woo me with science' for posting the original graphics on this ...... I just reposted them in another thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1551858

I just thought it needed to be posted again after Boner opened his mouth awhile ago .... :eyes:

[47of74]

121. Well then, might I suggest RimJob land (aka Free Republic)