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so someone on fb posted this to me - help me reply:

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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:04 PM
Original message
so someone on fb posted this to me - help me reply:
Show me where the right has blamed ...such violence on the left. Don't just say they do. Show me. Post a link or a video or something where a respected member of the right (not the fringe elements we all know are out there), someone who is part of the right wing mainstream (similar to how all the pundits in the links I posted are members of the left wing mainstream), someone who was not immediately denounced after (Pat Roberston is known for saying some "out there" things, but the right does not latch on to them), actually said something that tried to attack the policital environment of the left for inciting violence.

Oh, and in that link or video, you must also be able to show that whatever was said was not true, that there was no such link, that it was demonstrably false. I have posted many links of the left calling for, actually openly calling for violence. Kind of hard to argue with those. It's in their own words, on video. You can't use my posts to support your argument.

My post here is not about what the shooter did, though. It is about what the liberal media is saying about it, about how they are trying to make it about political speech and not the actions of a disturbed and violent person.

If there are any political leanings to be gleaned about this fellow, from what we know of him so far, they are exactly the opposite of what the liberal media is saying. Sen. Alexander says the same thing in the link below.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/stop-bringing-it-up-senator-alexander-fights-back-on-lefts-palin-cross-hair-motive-narrative/

----

Post away, and I will flood him with the links.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. They're all fringe.
Your challenge is impossible.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. .....


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JustFiveMoreMinutes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think it's caused Poisoning the Well... and you cant 'win'
You'd have to get them to clarify FIRST who she would NOT claim as 'fringe' and also set the other boundaries that she's opened too widely............ too much of an effort for someone who doesn't WANT an answer.......
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JustFiveMoreMinutes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
5.  or you could just say all HER leftwing posts showed 'fringe'
and put the onus back on her with the exact demands.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. ...and "respectable" is really pushing the envelope.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. find Jackpine's post about the sheriff - he lists things from Phil Gramm, etc.
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. If it's a "friend"
I'd send a few dozen four, five, and six letter words his way then unfriend him.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. IMHO
Edited on Sun Jan-09-11 04:38 PM by Mz Pip
words matter.

It seems to me that blaming this violence on the left is exactly what Alexander is doing. The shooter read Marx, Hitler and burned the flag. Alexander attributes those actions to someone on the left.

I don't know what the politics of the shooter were. It really doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. When the political discourse of this country has sunk to the levels of putting gun site crosshairs on congressional districts, talking about Second Amendment remedies when things don't go your way, and yammering about reloading or talking them out, those words will resonate with people who don't need much to feel validated in their actions. It hardly matters if they are left or right. This guy was unstable and I can't imagine that all the talk of Second Amendment remedies didn't resonate with him on some level.

Of course there are people on the left who engage in hate filled rhetoric, but they are not running for office, or in any position of power. They are not candidates for the Senate or the House. They do not have presidential aspirations. They do not shout "Liar!" on the congressional floor during a Presidential address.

Words matter, and the fact that folks like Alexander are so quick to deflect any responsibility for the rhetoric coming from the right wing politicians makes me think he protests a bit too much. this rhetoric isn't coming from liberals who are in any positions of power; it is coming from the right.

I would challenge this guy to find some comparable rhetoric from a liberal politician or candidate, not just random blog posts.
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JustFiveMoreMinutes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Excellent! I was just coming back to suggest the same thing!
So DITTO!
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. people see hitler's title of "national socialist" and think he was
left wing, he was not, that was just a word for the working masses, in reality he was a right wing fascist, with govt and business merged with little workers rights, and allied with right wing spanish, japanese, and italian dictators...
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Beautiful! I couldn't get past the audacity of the guy, so kudos to you.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. This guy's a jerk...
His demands that you provide links proving what you said (as though you're lying) & then giving you a narrow window of requirements calls for a reply like, "Just because you haven't been paying attention to the story as it unravels, don't expect me to dig up links for you because you can't take me at my word."
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Yeah, he can be a dick - but I do delight in pissing him off almost daily :)
He is around people who agree with him all the time, until I came along on FB (he and I played chess together in high school - and yeah, he was not even on the A team and was a B board player....)
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. just post this & tell him to suck it
1. Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for."



2. Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."



3. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him, censure him, assassinate him."



4. John Derbyshire intimated in the National Review that because Chelsea Clinton had "the taint," she should "be killed."



5. Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too."



6. Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."



7. Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains."



8. Clear Channel radio host Glenn Beck said he was "thinking about killing Michael Moore" and pondered whether "I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it," before concluding: "No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out -- is this wrong?"



.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Thanks just replied with this to him - here is his latest post (before mine):
I disagree (he was answering someone else here). It is not done on both sides of the political divide ... at least I am pretty sure it isn't.

There are many, many cases of the left claiming the right is guilty of inciting violence, but not providing any facts to back up... that claim. I have asked TSS to provide some. We'll see how he does.

On the other hand, there are many, many cases of the left actually calling for violence, openly calling for the violent overthrow of the US. I have posted those links previously, with video.

Similarly, most of these individuals are found to be left wing loons once we look into them. Very, very few, if any, are ever right wing folks. They are accused of it at first, of course, but as we look into who they really are, it always seems they have leftist leanings.
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ThatPoetGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Your friend is dishonest.
Suppose I punch you in the face. You say, "Hey, ThatPoetGuy punched me in the face!" And I say, "Show me where I ever blamed you for violence."

Many right-wing figures have been inciting violence for years, and a lot of people are dead because of it. Policemen, children, lawyers, guards at the Holocaust museum, abortion providers, the Oklahoma City Federal Building. And on and on. Right-wingers have perpetrated far more terrorist acts on American soil than Al Qaeda has.

If such violence hasn't been blamed on the left, it's because there isn't any real left-wing violence. (Oh, right: there are those "eco-terrorists" who do such acts of violence as chaining themselves to trees.) There hasn't been any real left-wing violence, because the leaders of the left are not constantly provoking violence, as many of the right's leaders do.
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mysticalchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. They don't care about facts ...
... and I refuse to waste my breath on showing them things they want to ignore. The info is out there. If they were interested, they'd go looking. I have one on my FB timeline and I usually just pat him on the head when he comments on my stuff. I don't engage him in a convo because he is not interested in anything but refuting what I've written and he gets his jollies by arguing. So I don't.

(My Aunt is another matter - I will jump on her case when she sends me RW talking point emails but in a nice way because I love her so. Not so much with my FB friend (who I have on ignore so i can't see his wall of crap.)
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OneAngryDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. A Call to Protest
Do not remain silent.

Conservatives will not speak out.

They will blame the lone, solitary, shooter...

They will blame liberal society...

They will blame anything and everything but modern-day conservatism, which preaches that liberals and democrats are the bona fide enemies of America and a threat to the nation's very existence.

And as long as that is the case, the bodies will continue to pile up.

And that leaves it up to us to speak out.

We need not mince words - it is vital that we speak clearly and succinctly but most importantly, firmly.

Conservatism must evolve.

It must change.

To believe otherwise is to help pass around the nails for the next coffin in which the next liberal democrat will be buried in.

No one was out there speaking about the radical right-wing elements that threaten our civil society until Janet Napolitano issued a DHS report warning about extremists that might resort to violence - a report which conservatives across the country demanded to be immediately rescinded. Now that we have seen a series of right-wing assassinations take place, the original DHS report looks, in hindsight, to have been very timely and prescient.

We have seen Jim David Adkisson open fire upon the congregation of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church with a sawed-off shotgun, killing two, simply because he opposed the all-inclusive nature of the church, and of the church's liberal teachings. Adkisson wrote in a letter which he assumed would be his last, "I thought I’d do something good for this country — kill Democrats ‘til (sic) the cops kill me.” His hatred for his fellow Americans could not be contained: “Liberals are a pest like termites, millions of them … the only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is kill them in the streets, kill them where they gather.”

James von Brunn, a radical right-winger from Maryland sought to turn the nation's Holocaust Museum into a symbol for his particular brand of racism, when he went there with the intent to kill blacks and Jews, as an example to the rest of white America to emulate. Luckily for those visitors inside of the museum, the first man von Brunn decided to open fire upon was a black man who had the ability to return the favor, and so no one besides than the very heroic Stephen T. Johns died that day.

Shawna Forde, and two other members of the anti-immigrant Minutman group which she founded, the ''Minutemen American Defense,'' decided that one way to finance her burgeoning organization was to dress up as law enforcement agents, and to rob Mexican immigrants. When Shawna and her compatriots illegally entered the home of Raul Flores, and demanded money, the head of the family ordered the trio to leave, prompting the radical right-wingers to put a bullet into the head of little 9 year old Brisenia Flores, and into the head of her father. Unluckily for the conservative killers, Brisenia's mother was able to barricade herself in her bedroom, where she kept a handgun, and she was able to keep at bay her would be assassins until the real police arrived.

Richard Poplawski opened fire on police officers during a domestic disturbance call, in April of 2009, killing three of them.

Why?

The 23 year-old right-winger feared that the President was poised to take away his hand guns.

Just a few days after that shoot-out, two sheriff’s deputies in northern Florida were shot and killed by Joshua Cartwright who later was fatally shot by other deputies. The reason, according to Cartright's wife, was because Joshua "believed that the US Government was conspiring against him," and, according to her, he had been severely disturbed that Barack Obama had been elected President.

The list of victims from right-wing terror does not stop there.

It goes on, and on.

Doctor George Tiller.

Arkansas Democratic Chairman Bill Gwatney.

Congresswoman Giffords and the other victims of the Tucson shooting are but the latest victims of this madness.

Hours before the shooting spree in Arizona which took 6 lives including that of a Federal Judge and a 9 year old little girl, Christina Greene (born on 9-11-2001), Representative Peter King, a conservative Republican and the new chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, made clear his intention to use taxpayers' money - our money - to investigate the radicalization of American Muslims, claiming in his zeal to persecute American Muslims, that "These are very legitimate hearings."

But since the day little Christina was brought into this world, on that fateful September morning, the number of victims who have been laid to rest due to domestic jihad pales when compared to those who have been killed by conservative terrorists during little Christina's short tenure on this earth.

For moderate conservatives to hide these blood-thirsty radicals within their ranks behind the legitimate dissent of the anti-abortion lobby, or of that of any other conservative movement, be it anti-immigration, or advocates for 2d Amendment Rights, and to deny any responsibility for help in fostering these lunatic's bizarre views, doesn't help the conservative lobbies attain their aims and goals...

It, instead, helps the radical conservative terrorists attain theirs.

We should be there, in Washington DC, on the first day that Rep. King convenes his American Muslim witch hunt.

We should be there to tell him with a thunderous voice that we know who the real domestic threats to America are.

I will be there.

Will you?

A note on the graphic included with this post: The Sons of Liberty were the patriots who had finally had enough and threw the King's tea into Boston Harbor. The graphic is the flag of those American patriots. If you, too, are ready to throw out the tea, proudly adopt this flag as a piece of your heritage once again.

Del Wasso,
Rockford Coffee Party Coordinator,
Rockford, Illinois,
www.rockfordcoffeeparty.org

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swishyfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. This might be a helpful post
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