So were the GOP planning on capturing the mighty independents by coming

[applegrove]

down with tough cuts but Obama foiled them? He came out with tough fiscal cuts of his own. And the GOP keeps backing away from all these tough deals once Obama agrees with that plan. And then yesterday, one of the GOP complained that they couldn't agree to a deal which Obama backed. So what? they want Obama to remain silent and just lie there like a bump on a log and not interfear with their plots and plans? I think the GOP are trying to brand themselves as both the far right extreme party and the centrist fiscal conservatives party with this false debt ceiling crisis. And they, so far, have failed. So then they undo the crisis, that is the phony debt ceiling crisis, with something like the McConnell plan. So as not to cede the fiscal centre voters to Obama.

It is all about winning the independents. It is false drama. It has nothing to do with there being a debt problem. It is all about the GOP winning so that rich people will not have to pay taxes.

[elocs]

1. Yet we have many here who sincerely believe a Progressive/Liberal can somehow win the presidency

without independents like they would flock to an extreme left party.

[JDPriestly]

2. Independents would flock to a party with a candidate who

had common sense and says what he means and fights for it. Left wing, right win, people want honesty, straight talk and courage. People want someone who will defend their interests.

Democrats on the left would defend the interests of all the voters including independents.

The Democrats we have in the White House now defend the interests of their friends on Wall Street. Independents certainly are not going to vote for that

Cuts to Social Security and Medicare will not win the presidency. That's for sure.

[RickFromMN]

3. If I could, I would vote for Bernie Sanders. Bernie doesn't stand a chance to be President.

I will vote for Obama in 2012. Obama is better than the Republican alternative.

This doesn't mean I have to agree with Obama's policies. I don't have to be a "yes" man.

When Obama caved on the single payer national health plan, I was unhappy.
But what galls me is the way he caved. He gave it up without getting anything in return.

If he is going to give something up, get something in return.
Get something, of equal or greater value, in return.

Obama needs to know when I am unhappy even if what I want doesn't stand a chance of passage.
He needs to know where I stand. He shouldn't ignore me just because I will vote for him anyway.

I don't need to know exactly where Obama stands, as long as I can trust him.
I don't need to spoil his negotiating stance by knowing what he will not give on.

My problem with Obama, it's hard for me to trust him.
I'm worried he will give away the store.
I'm worried he won't get anything in return.
I'm worried he won't get something of equal or greater value in return.

Maybe this is his negotiating style.
Maybe he lulls his opponents into a false sense of security.
If this is his style, his style is driving me crazy.

Some will say we should judge him, not be his negotiating style, but by results.
It's true we have Obamacare, and I don't mean to be disrespectful when I say Obamacare.
People will call our new health system, Obamacare, as more of it is implemented.

But we didn't even get a public option with Obamacare. He should have tried harder.
I'd like to think he could have gotten a public option. I still think he caved too quickly.

And to those who say we should have gotten something better because we had majorities in Congress,
I disagree. It galls me when Democrats stood in the way, but I can understand.

Our majorities, in Congress, included a number of Blue Dog Democrats.
They wouldn't vote for a single payer plan.
I have the feeling a number of them wouldn't vote for a public option.

I want to believe, some Presidential arm twisting might have gotten enough of them to vote
for a public option that we would at least have a public option.

The question is mute. The Senate Republicans filibustered anyway.

Thank you for letting me rant. I need to rant.
It makes voting for Obama easier when the time comes.

[applegrove]

4. I'll be really upset if he doesn't get revenue increases in this deal. I'm holding my breath as we

speak. Also I hope the changes to Medicare and Social Security are about getting rich people to pay more...not the middle class. But like you, I'll do anything to make sure the GOP doesn't get into power.

[neverforget]

5. Democrats could've run on the Ryan Kill Medicare Plan. Instead the DC Dems

fucked it all up. At least we got 1 seat out of it. Medicare is popular enough that Dems won a Republican seat in a Republican leaning district.