At this point, Obama has nothing to lose by holding firm

[MadHound]

The media, the public all recognize that the 'Pugs, especially in the House, have gone nuts. If we go into default, the President and the Dems will hold zero responsibility. Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of people in this country don't want SS/Medicare cuts, and do want the rich to start paying more in taxes.

If worse comes to worse, and the 'Pugs don't raise the debt ceiling, Obama can say fuck it, and use the 14th amendment option, and the public would back him.

He loses nothing by holding firm for no SS/Medicare cuts and an increase in tax revenues, nothing.

However he risks everything by caving. He risks the wrath of his party, he risks his reelection, his reputation, his legacy.

Holding firm is the right thing to do politically and morally. Let us hope that he does so. Because consigning seniors and the poor to lives of even more misery, while the rich get even more tax cuts simply isn't an option, it's an abomination.

[gateley]

1. I think he risks more than the wrath of his party -- Independents whose

SS/Medicare may be affected would be pretty pissed, too --

For the umpteenth time, it shouldn't have even been "on the table".

But at this point, we don't know what the final deal will be, and then it's got to pass in the Senate, so...:shrug: I also wonder if some Republicans in the House might balk as well -- I'm sure they've heard from their constituents.

[Roselma]

2. We were talking about holding firm, and when no

deal could be made, invoking the 14th amendment's provision about the debt. Then Congress would have to sue Obama to stop him. That could take some time. If the USSC eventually rules that Obama can't do that, then Obama has to let the country default, but the USSC gets blamed. If the USSC says Obama can do that, then the debt ceiling statute is forever striken down. No more debt ceiling. My guess is that the USSC might not order the government to default - just a guess. The conservatives on the court are friendly to business. If the country goes into default, business will suffer.

[rug]

3. To do that he'll need massive doses of political viagra.

[CelticThunder]

4. Every time I see him now the Spinners start singing Rubber Band Man in my head and

when they are done, the Fifth Dimension chime in with Carpet Man.

[Art_from_Ark]

8. And after the Fifth Dimension are through,

do The Kinks chime in with "Plastic Man"?

[Cali_Democrat]

5. It's so simple yet for some reason Obama makes it seem like rocket science. n/t

[The Magistrate]

6. True, Sir: Amazing How Often Fighting For the Right Thing is the Right Course

[checks-n-balances]

7. Good, and I hope HE knows that

I'm totally blown away at how much collective wisdom here.

Sometimes it feels like his advisors are really clueless. It's scary when you can figure out things that the president has such a hard time seeing.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

9. Unfortunately, he's really bad at that. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

10. "the President and the Dems will hold zero responsibility" but we'll go into default!

This is not a game, this is not a competition for popularity you know, or making the Republicans look bad and leaving it at that.

[MadHound]

11. Thanks, I'm am perfectly aware of that,

I am also aware that politics plays a huge role in these talks, and the plain fact of the matter is that politically, Obama has nothing to lose by standing firm for such Democratic principles as SS and Medicare.

You want to see Obama win next year, then you don't want to see him give in and cut SS/Medicare. That will be signing his political death warrant.

[ThomWV]

12. You are asking him to do something that he has never done before

The man is the great compromiser.

[MadHound]

14. Oh, I know

But really now, you would think that with his own political life on the line, he would learn to fight:shrug:

[kentuck]

13. I agree with this scenario...

The President holds firm. August 2nd rolls around. Repubs don't pass a debt limit. On Midnight of August the 1st, the President declares the 14th Amendment as operable and that the US is bound by law to pay its debts. If the Repubs want to take it to the Court, let them.

Unfortunately, his White House full of conservative advisers may not be telling him this?

[AlinPA]

15. The republicans want the default. They are faking the "negotiations" and Boehner will not survive

politically if the debt ceiling is raised. The teabaggers are in charge of the House.

[MadHound]

16. Well, at this point, give it to them,

If we go into default, it will be well known that it will be because of the 'Pugs. Let it go into default, and leave SS/Medicare alone.

[swilton]

17. The repugs have gone nuts because they smell red meat

[anamandujano]

18. a little confused here

"He loses nothing by holding firm for no SS/Medicare cuts and an increase in tax revenues, nothing."

I believe I've been reading that he is for the opposite of what you're saying here. He is NOT holding firm for no SS/Medicare cuts. He is NOT holding firm for an increase in tax revenues, at least on the hoarding never-have-enough super rich.

If we go into default it only means the deal didn't get closed. We can all say SS/Medicare safe for the time being but we all know what he is for.

As always, correct me if I'm wrong on this.