Jared Loughner's behavior recorded by college classmate in emails (feared he would go postal)

[cali]

By David A. Fahrenthold

In early June, Lynda Sorenson, 52, had gone back to community college in Tucson in hopes of getting back on the job market. One of her classes was a basic algebra class--and one of her classmates was Jared Loughner, now identified by authorities as the man who killed six people and critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) in a shooting rampage Saturday. Sorenson's emails to friends from last summer, provided to the Washington Post, reveal her growing alarm at Loughner's strange and disruptive
behavior in class.


From June 1, the first day of class:
"One day down and nineteen to go. We do have one student in the class who was disruptive today, I'm not certain yet if he was on drugs (as one person surmised) or disturbed. He scares me a bit. The teacher tried to throw him out and he refused to go, so I talked to the teacher afterward. Hopefully he will be out of class very soon, and not come back with an automatic weapon."

From June 10:
"As for me, Thursday means the end to week two of algebra class. It seems to be going by quickly, but then I do have three weeks to go so we'll see how I feel by then. Class isn't dull as we have a seriously disturbed student in the class, and they are trying to figure out how to get rid of him before he does something bad, but on the other hand, until he does something bad, you can't do anything about him. Needless to say, I sit by
the door."

From June 14:
"We have a mentally unstable person in the class that scares the living crap out of me. He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon. Everyone interviewed would say, Yeah, he was in my math class and he was really weird. I sit by the door with my purse handy. If you see it on the news one night, know that I got out fast..."

<snip>

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/jared-loughners-behavior-recor.html

[hlthe2b]

1. wow... this ought to lead to lots of discussion among universities

as to how best to deal with these situations. I am not sure anyone has the answers at this point.... How tragic that he didn't get mental health intervention before he erupted.

[cali]

4. the college kicked him out and barred him from

campus until he got a clearance re his mental status.

I don't know what the laws are about involuntary holds in Arizona.

[hlthe2b]

9. Yes... but that's where he fell through the cracks..

I think there needs to be a discussion as to whether university health officials, particularly in mental health CAN or SHOULD be required to follow-up or notify anyone beyond the parents (which they did).... I don't propose an answer to that. Right now, HIPAA and other privacy protections would come into play. But, I am not sure where the line of responsibility should end. Similar to the VA Tech shooter, whose mental health issues were documented, yet allowed to fall through the cracks.

An area for discussion and perhaps consensus consideration for the university community in the future.....

[mike_c]

6. interestingly, we've been told that the main topic of an upcoming faculty mtg...

...later this week is instruction on dealing with "disruptive" students. I've had a few over the years, but none that I couldn't handle, at least so far. One of the scariest I've ever dealt with with a guy who wasn't actually disruptive, per se-- in fact, he was pleasant and cooperative, mostly. He was a former LA police officer, retired on disability, then working as an investigator for a local sheriff's dept. He made a point of telling me after class, more than once, that he was always "carrying" despite university regulations against firearms on campus and that if I ever needed anyone "taken down" during class, he was the guy to call on. The fact that he considered this a likelihood was what I found so scary.

[hlthe2b]

15. I'd be interested to hear what comes from that...

Check back in afterwards, will you?

[mike_c]

18. will do-- the meeting's on Wednesday....

I've bookmarked this thread-- I'll try to PM you at least.

[PufPuf23]

26. I'd be interested too mike_c kr

[Statistical]

2. Failure of our (under funded and under promoted) mental health system.

It should be far easier to mandate a counseling session. There should also be stiff requirements for people in position of authority to report such incidents.

Of course fixing our mental health system would take a lot of money and would require a lot of work, and would take a long time. Instead we piss it away on a "war on drugs" and worthless gun control laws like the assault weapons ban or DC gun ban.

[Dappleganger]

24. +10000

[FLPanhandle]

3. Sounds schizophrenic

More mental illness than political terrorist.

[TalkingDog]

28. I've known 5 schizophrenics over the years. (probably more)

Not one of them shot anybody. In fact, none of them have ever even hurt anyone.

Mental illness is being used to excuse his attack on a political figure. He didn't attack his family. He didn't attack his school mates. He made a conscious choice about who to attack.

How about we agree he was a mentally ill political terrorist.

[RamboLiberal]

5. Jared Loughner's college instructor: I was worried he might have a gun in class

A community college instructor who taught Tucson shooting suspect Jared Loughner was so disturbed by the student's outbursts in class that he requested Loughner's removal from the course, he told the Washington Post in an interview Sunday.

Ben McGahee, a third-year instructor at Pima Community College, taught Loughner in an elementary algebra class last summer. McGahee said that while Loughner never threatened him directly, he was concerned by his behavior.

"I always felt, you know, somewhat paranoid," McGahee said. "When I turned my back to write on the board, I would always turn back quickly--to see if he had a gun."

McGahee said he had to make several complaints before administrators finally removed Loughner.

"They just said, 'Well, he hasn't taken any action to hurt anyone. He hasn't provoked anybody. He hasn't brought any weapons to class,'" McGahee recalled. "'We'll just wait until he takes that next step.'"

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/loughners-college-instructor-i.html?hpid=topnews

[cali]

7. all of this begs the question: Why didn't someone try and have the guy

put on a 72 hour hold?

[LisaL]

8. Because it's not easy to get someone committed?

[cali]

10. It depends on the state. It's actually not that hard in many states.

Usually the standard is a threat to themselves or others, but it varies by state. This behavior could well have gotten him put on a 72 hour hold in many places.

[LisaL]

12. But he hasn't harmed anyone apparently at the time.

So he wouldn't qualify under the standard.

[cali]

14. no, he or she doesn't have to have harmed someone to be put on a 72 hour hold.

[FLPanhandle]

16. Would 72 hrs have helped someone that far gone?

Or would he have been out in 72 hrs exactly the same as before?

[cali]

21. quite often 72 hour holds turn into 180 day (or whatever the statutory period)

involuntary commitments.

[LisaL]

19. He didn't threaten to harm anyone either.

As far as I can tell.

[Dappleganger]

25. FL has a Baker Act.

[kestrel91316]

11. Pretty much impossible until he actually harms someone.

[cali]

13. no, it's not. I worked for Protection & Advocacy system for nearly 10 years

That the federal system administered by states to protect the rights of those with mental illness and development disabilities. It varies from state to state, but no, you don't have to wait until a person actually harms someone.

http://www.napas.org/

[hlthe2b]

17. Problem is having somewhere available to send them...

I'm sure other states are not unlike Colorado and particularly metro Denver in having few psych beds available anymore.

[Boojatta]

20. "Algebra" comes from the Arabic word "al-jabr."

When right-wing personalities come into contact with anything having Arabic origins, there is the danger of a violent reaction. Let us hope that the lessons on display here influence academic guidance policies so that nothing like this happens again.

[woo me with science]

22. K&R nt

[treestar]

23. Wow, usually it is the other way round

Everyone says the guy seemed so normal.

Trouble is, not everyone who acts strange is going to go on a killing spree either.

[PufPuf23]

27. Social services as well as local police and educational institutions

are overloaded where need is compared to funding.

IMHO the shooter should have been put on an involuntary assessment when removed from the college. Someone did not communicate for a involuntary 5150 or like hold seems appropriate to me at the expulsion.

The reality is that there is more mental illness because of the times and crime and less resources to deal with public safety. The public safety trend in the USA is to degrade and mis-allocate by "intelligent design".

rec