How the hell is this a "win"?

[Taverner]

People are cheering in the halls that Boehner walked.

Yeah, it makes Obama look good - but how is that a win?

The only way it's a win is a Tigerblood Addonis DNA Charlie Sheen kind of Winning.

[tridim]

1. Go be depressed somewhere else please.

[dkf]

5. Are you happy about this?

You must be kidding me.

[tridim]

8. Yes.

Obama is leading strongly and the GOP just lost 2012.

[Taverner]

15. Dollars to donuts, I don't think Obama considers this a "win"

The Republicans are messing with the base mechanics of government

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, this is not Obama's fault

It IS the Republicans fault

And this just means that we will probably default, with full Republican approval

[MadHound]

44. You're happy that millions of people in the poor, working and middle class are going to lose

Lose some of what little financial security they have left? You're happy that millions of elderly people, both now and in the future, are going to have to get by on less and less.

Kind and compassionate you're not, happy that people are going to suffer, but hey, we'll get re-elected come next year:puke:

Cut into SS and Medicare, and I doubt that any Dem will win. It will be lose-lose for all of us.

[robinlynne]

9. I am extremely happy. The deal Obama tried to make was mostly taking away our social security.

[tridim]

12. No, the deal wasn't "taking away SS"..

Read the transcript when it's available. The deal cut zero from SS and Medicare benefits.

[robinlynne]

14. excuse me? and the 3 trillion dollars were coming from.....

raising the age to retire by two years is equal to a 12% decrease in benefits. (That's official, not from me.)
you can pretend it doesn't take away benefits if you want to.

[tridim]

19. I await your official link.

That's not what the President just said.

[robinlynne]

27. he just said he was willing to give 75% of 4 trillion dollars from social security and medicare. tha...

That equals 3 trillion.

links are all over DU.

[dkf]

21. Don't you get more by postponing retirement?

Have we seen the schedules they would be offering?

[robinlynne]

22. no. You get two years less.

[dkf]

28. No. There is a schedule that reduces the amount based on how much earlier you retire.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/agereduction.htm

[robinlynne]

29. NOW.

[robinlynne]

30. of course. That keeps the same pot. nothing to do with the deal. which would remove

two years of pay. you wont get that back later.

if citizen X has a fund of 10,000 in retirement. if you divide that by 10 years it will be more per month than if you divide it by 12 years, obviously.

but that is not what they were negotiating about.

apples and oranges.

[robinlynne]

25. If you retire later your monthly payment may go up in a retirement plan of your own at work.

Yes that is true. In this case it was simply reducing the number of people receiving benefits, hence reducing the benefits. nobody was going ot get more because they waited two years. the pot doesn't stay the same size, and you get more per month. that would be a private retirement plan.

[bvar22]

42. Only if you live long enough to collect it,

...and are healthy enough to keep working those two extra years.

Raising the age SUCKS when you Work for a Living.
No two ways about it.

[robinlynne]

38. If you watch Obama's speech, you will see he says current retirees would not have social security cu

cuts. he is clear about that. that means the rest of us would.

[dkf]

18. If you think you won't lose more over the consequences of default you don't know what's up.

[robinlynne]

26. The corportations already said raise the debt ceiling. It will be raised.

[sudopod]

6. I always pretend that everything you say is in Stewie's voice. nt

[SpiralHawk]

2. Soooo reminiscent of Newtie's idiotic QUIT (R) & FAIL moment...

What a pack of quitters the Republicons are. If their fatcat billionaire puppetmasters aren't getting Republicon Welfare for the Rich, they throw a tantrum and QUIT. Quitters.

[NightWatcher]

3. Obama's looking like an extension till 2013 in the debt ceiling

lets hope we take enough seats in 12 to make it easy and the next Speaker is a Democrat

[BumRushDaShow]

4. Wooosh!!! n/t

[robinlynne]

7. BECAUSE Obama was not able to give them our social security!!! no deal.

the deal would have been terrible.

[Poll_Blind]

10. People are so used to Obama caving hard, him just being snippy is...

...considered by some a resounding WIN! It's sad. There are political points scored by Obama's statements, no doubt, but this is far from over. And it ain't over till it's over.

PB

[robinlynne]

11. Obama caved alright. but thank god the Repucans wouldn't. They wanted more blood.

Good for them.

[Poll_Blind]

13. LOL! It's the definition of a political clusterfuck if there ever was one!

PB

[robinlynne]

32. I know it's weird, but I am so relieved, and still so scared they still ma make some deal.

I dont want anymore DEALS!!! not in my name.

[choie]

36. I agree with you Poll_Blind..

We should be thrilled with Obama because he, once again, made a good speech? WTF is wrong with people? Don't they understand that this is kabuki theater? I don't believe anything that either participant in these "negotiations" say in public.

[kath]

41. +1000.

"People are so used to Obama caving hard, him just being snippy is...
...considered by some a resounding WIN!"

Just had to see that again - sad but true!

[lamp_shade]

16. Shut the front door.

[JTFrog]

17. /facepalm

[Taverner]

20. I'm not talking about the cuts

Yes, they were bad - but Obama did what he had to to get the debt ceiling raised

The GOP is playing chicken

But now there will NOT be a raising of the debt ceiling

Checks will bounce, government will shut down

Yes it will make Obama look good - but in the meantime people will be hurt

This is what the President was trying to avoid, and for very good reason

[Leontius]

31. No he did not do what he had to do, he did what he wanted to do

McConnell offered a way out last week, all he had to do was take it.

[Taverner]

34. What was that way out?

14th amendment?

He (Obama) doesn't think he can pull it off - and I tend to trust Constitutional Scholars on this

[Leontius]

35. The votes to allow the Congress to disaprove of the President

raising the limit while at the same time allowing him to raise it by vetoing the disaproval. Yeah it doesn't make sense to me either but it is supposed to be legal and binding somehow. I don't have a link but maybe a search for 'McConnell debt limit plan' can find the details. I'll try to find it and post it.

[econoclast]

23. A "win" in the lexicon of 21st century American politics defined...

"It's ok of things turn to shit ... as long as the other side gets blamed for it. "

[socialshockwave]

24. Why is DU

all happy about a possible economic depression? I know you guys disagree with the Republicans(I don't like half of what they are doing, either) but...really? You'd see your country in the dumps just to prove a political point? :/

[Igel]

40. Partisanship vs governing vs patriotism.

There are those who are more into partisanship than patriotism, or, rather, they equate the two.

Patriotism is wanting the best for your country; humility says that you can be wrong and, in a democracy, the country isn't a subset of the population but the entirety of the population.

Partisanship is wanting the best for your party; taken to an extreme, it means that you think what's best for your country *is* what's best for your party. Sort of like "What's good for GM is good for America." Of course, a corollary is that "the people" are those like yourself, in your party. The others aren't really people and shouldn't be represented in a democracy.

Now, I don't really care which a person goes with. I think one is more reasonable and reasoned, but the other is fairly harmless if held by a powerless minority of the population. What's wrong is when partisanship is is taken as a principle for governing. Then the government is to be institutionally biased towards one group and only one group is to have power; the government is to be an extension of the party and to preferentially do things to help the party and the partisans. It moves democracy from a form of government for the common good and general welfare to being one who's primary purpose is to despoil others. If a sufficient portion of the population holds by this view, then the democracy is dead except in the sense that 50% + 1 can enslave or confine the other 50% - 1 in a kind of popular dictatorship.

In this case, what's more important for some is that their Hero (in the sense of Hector and Achilles) has stood up and vicariously restored their honor by saying something nasty and mean about the others. Now, if something truly horrible happens, they have an out: "It's not my fault, Mikey did it." As long as they can hold themselves blameless and make somebody else look bad, it doesn't matter. A 20-year depression, massive amounts of poverty and homelessness reaching 20% of the population? Eh. "Not my fault. I didn't do it. I can't be held responsible."

* bore no responsibility for anything bad because it was all Clinton's fault; Obama bears no responsibility for anything bad because it's all *'s fault. It gets tedious, and it's one reason why I figure I stand a better chance teaching high school kids than elementary school kids. At least high schoolers stand a chance of "manning up."

[JVS]

43. "I don't like half of what they are doing, either"

????

[jwirr]

33. I do not understand what went on in that meeting but I for one will not

breathe easy until my social security check is in my account. I am glad so many of you are happy - me, I am just depressed.

[Rex]

37. I figured it out, it is a 'win' because we haven't had our heads chopped off yet.

Obama offered us up for sacrifice and the racist pigs in the GOP wouldn't take it out of their hatred for his skin color...he offered them MORE and they turned it down.

That is teh best I can come up with.

We avoided a bullet, today.

[Broderick]

39. Its a win because we like platitudes and playing a losing defense

It is mind numbing to me how the spin in small sectors runs. We are letting the Republicans frame the debate and we are playing a losing defense but cheerleading seems to be the way of the world. Sing me a song, and pull my string with platitudes and I will dance.