C'mon. Do you think the uber rich will allow the economy to collapse...

[Kablooie]

taking them down and everything they've grabbed for themselves over the past decades?

If you were in that position would you just sit by and hope that the vote goes to increase the debt limit?

Hell no! You would start calling individual Congress peoples and not asking, but telling them that they will vote to keep America default free.

If they resist I am sure there are some ruthless tycoons out there that are not above mafioso type remedies to their problem.

This is too big an issue to be screwing around with.

It will be resolved, and in time, no matter what.

That's my prediction.

[Hydra]

1. It's likely that it will be

But in Patriot Act fashion, a fake crisis will be used to do the unthinkable.

Once it's done, it never goes away...

[aquart]

2. That's a lot of horse's heads to distribute.

Are you sure the scum billionaire conspiracy can distribute them in time?

A lot of these idiots actually think they have principles.

[noise]

3. It's a good strategy to justify the austerity agenda

Similar to the way some people justify right wing policies by the Democratic party. "Do you prefer Sarah Palin?" Now we will have "Did you prefer the economy to collapse instead?"

[ArcticFox]

15. +1

[Kennah]

4. Genius has it's limits while stupidity knows no bounds

[peace4ever]

5. yes, they already have

and have in the past as well.

creates bargins for those at the top.

[baldguy]

6. Just like "We can trust the banks to follow the law, and not scam their own depositors."

Or "American manufacturers would never ship American jobs to China! That would be unpatriotic."

And "That chemical plant wouldn't pollute our water supply. After all, they have to live here too."

Yeah, right.

[Cleita]

7. Yes, if they are protecting their assets off shore, it's

likely they will not care. I have observed the same callousness in other countries where the rich put their money in Swiss and other foreign banks because they won't be affected with the problems in the countries they are making the money in because they do very well, with fancy homes, servants, and other rich perks.

[Poll_Blind]

8. Let me get this right: You are abused by the idea that we should trust the uber rich to do the...

...right thing?

:rofl:

PB

[Kablooie]

13. Hell no. I count on them acting for self preservation.

As to what the agreement between the D and R and T factions become I have no comment.

I just claim that the debt limit will be raised so America doesn't default.

[baldguy]

19. You're assuming that their ideas of "self-preservation" include you. They don't.

Ever wonder why their proxies in govt seem to WANT the govt to default? There's nothing seeming about it. They've been fighting for generations to weaken it & "make it small enough to drown in a bathtub" - without the power to do anything except the bare minimum of govt functions, and sometimes not even that. What better way to get there than to force the govt to shut down & default on it's financial obligations? For them it's a win-win and fuck the rest of us.

[OHdem10]

9. I think that somehow the Leaders on the Hill and the President

will raise the ceiling. It may be with a small Plan
that both sides can live with to get them over the
goal post and prevent default.

In the long run, this might be better. They can
use the time from now to the election to get out
and have a real debate on exactly what kind of vision
for the country each side has . This means those
Democrats on the Hill had better get it together
get those Blue Dogs and DLC in line. They must
present our party as distinguishable from the Republican
Party. They cannot simply say "ME TOO" to every
Republican idea.

What concerns me is that Wall St might begin not to
have the faith I have that they will get the job done
and downgrade us even before the 2ond.

[BeFree]

10. They won't default

But they will still be heroes to many tea drinkers.

They came into office with a singular intent: Cause trouble. They did.

[some guy]

11. Do you think the uber rich

are a single voting bloc?

What if further behind the scenes, things were playing out at the uber rich level, in a fashion similar to the way they seem to be playing out at the elected officials level?


Here's a scenario;

one side: the generic uber rich who are just interested in being wealthy and quietly powerful.
other side: Dominionists, Federalist Society, and people who think a default would be a good way to shift the nation to a theocracy.

I've not seen a whisper of a rumor that something like that might be happening, so hopefully it's just my paranoia.

[pnwmom]

12. Some of them think that a collapse will give them good buying opportunities.

They're flush with cash and looking for a place to spend it.

Others have invested in financial instruments like Eric Cantor's ultra-shorts that will prove profitable in the event of a default.

[PATRICK]

14. At this point

The nuts are both out of control and useless if compromised(new dirty word and Boner AGREES with that lunacy). So they walk out and instead expect, at the end of the day, for Obama to do it alone(at least raise the debt ceiling) and have everything derive to their benefit as a result- including turning that very fact into a liability against him and MORE pressure to do destructive things to the budget with the GOP getting of the hook more than any rational person could possibly expect.

It would be great if Obama turned that decisive act into some of the things we hope for(better policy and its attenuant better political capital), but I think despite all this spectacle they trust Obama to do the "right" thing. That would still leave us without a budget. Would it still leave us without the clarity of where the parties stand except peeking out of the pockets of the criminal class rich? Obama is not afraid of doing the wrong thing and the rich are not afraid of what he might do instead of this perpetual bi-partisan empowerment of the crazed and mentally void GOP.

When Birch Bayh in Bush's early days saw a split government he had that Gang of Six little kid excitement of the Third Way day has come boasting. Cheney rained urine all over that sensible chic and they were totally ignored, run over and allowed only to deep six both party and nation. The grand strategy never existed, never fought, and fell in awe of the cleverness of it all, thinking a new Reagan was there to be worshiped. There was not even that faux pretext. It was pathetic and forgotten.

And now somehow it is strangely pretending to rule in the madhouse of crisis where the true nauseating insufficiency of the Third Way and GOP teasers can only do great harm- and is still largely ignored and despised- with the important exception of the WH.

[Luminous Animal]

16. Yes, I do. Because they don't live here. They live everywhere and nowhere and they extract wealth

from any slave nation.

[MilesColtrane]

17. As I've pointed out before,...

you didn't see the Carnegies, Vanderbilts, Fords, or Rockefellers standing in soup lines during the Great Depression.

You won't see the very rich suffering if there is another one.

The amount of assets they have are so vast and diversified, a depression wouldn't harm them much.

In fact, if they are properly positioned, they can increase their wealth if the dollar collapses.

[neverforget]

18. The T-Bagger Republicans believe their own propaganda so that makes

them dangerous.

[mmonk]

20. If they can profit from it (dereglation and removal of Glass Steagall).

However, no when it comes to raising the debt ceiling because that affects them also.

[PA Democrat]

22. The filthy scumbags are already gambling that Greece, Ireland and Portugal

will default. And if the people issuing those credit default swaps are the even bigger "too big to fail" financial institutions they will come looking for another bailout.

It’s the $616 billion question: Does the euro crisis have a hidden A.I.G.?

No one seems to be sure, in large part because the world of derivatives is so murky. But the possibility that some company out there may have insured billions of dollars of European debt has added a new tension to the sovereign default debate.

In years past, when financial crises in Argentina and Russia left those countries unable to make good on their government debts, they simply defaulted. But this time around, swaps and other sorts of contracts have become so common and so intertwined in the financial markets that there are fears among regulators and financial players about how a Greek default would play out among derivatives holders.

The looming uncertainties are whether these contracts — which insure against possibilities like a Greek default — are concentrated in the hands of a few companies, and if these companies will be able to pay out billions of dollars to cover losses during a default. If there were a single company standing behind many of these contracts, that company would be akin to the American International Group of the euro crisis. The American insurer needed a $182 billion federal bailout during the financial crisis because it had insured the performance of mortgage bonds through derivatives and could not pay on all of them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/business/global/23swaps.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-13/sovereign-company-credit-default-swaps-indexes-rise-in-europe.html

[sendero]

21. You assume..

...they haven't already positioned themselves to profit from a collapse.

I don't find a lot of comfort in that theory.

[KG]

23. the economy would collapse on us, not them.

[Nay]

24. The rich are licking their lips at the prospect of picking up stuff at 10 cents

on the dollar. And picking up a true slave class while they're at it, too. And they don't even have to live here if they don't want to -- but if they want to, they can stay here and carve out little fiefdoms for themselves with the bought-up land, and hire a bunch of very cheap workers (us). We would be forced to work for food and a shed to keep off the rain. Company store, anyone? Does anyone remember what rich people and corporations did in the bad old days, only 100 years ago or less? Does anyone read history? OF COURSE they'd like to see the collapse! It would mean more for them! We are little more than scurrying cockroaches in their eyes!

[nc4bo]

25. Never understood why the world of parasites insists on killing what keeps them alive

I'm thinking particularly of how some insects kill the plants they need to eat and breed in; like a squash vine borer or an aphid :S.

Bacteria and viruses do the same thing. Flesheating bacteria will kill you if it's left untreated, sometimes even if it is.

Nasty internal worms can also kill you.

Killing your host never seemed to make much sense to me.

What happens when there are no more hosts to kill?

Our elite class of vermin hasn't thought that far ahead yet or maybe they have. :shrug:

[originalpckelly]

26. These are the same people who had their own self interest at heart with sub prime loans, right?

Oh, I think we can trust them to have sound judgment and not be so motivated by greed it is their downfall. :rofl:

[Blue_Tires]

27. if they can profit off of it, sure

there are always other countries they can move/retire/invest...