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Debt celing talks. Some interesting stuff today in Bloomberg, TPM, The Hill

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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:55 AM
Original message
Debt celing talks. Some interesting stuff today in Bloomberg, TPM, The Hill
TPM:



Most of the real differences remained, as they have throughout the negotiations, focused on net tax increases


As of Thursday morning, the two sides were still $400 billion apart. Boehner had agreed to raise $800 billion in revenue over ten years from allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire at the end of next year on the wealthy -- those making $250,000 and above -- but the President wanted an additional $400 billion more to provide more balance to offset cuts to entitlements such as Medicare and Medicaid.

White House officials said they continuously stressed their willingness to dial parts of the deal up or down, but in the end it had to be balanced.

Boehner, however, said the $400 billion demand on taxes came suddenly when the Senate's Gang of Six announced their deal, which included roughly about $1.2 trillion in revenue raisers. Just the day before, the White House countered, Boehner had asked that any deal include a repeal of the individual mandate in the healthcare reform law, including the Independent Payment Advisory Board , which were non-starters for the administration.

The two sides were incredibly close when it came to costs savings for Medicare and Medicaid, with the President agreeing to $425 billion in savings over 10 years. Republicans wanted roughly $40 billion more than Democrats would agree to as of Thursday. Some of the savings would be achieved by gradually increasing the eligibility beneficiary bracket from 65 to 67 over a period of many years.

"In a multi-trillion package that gap there was in the tens of of dollars," a White House official remarked.

The would-be deal also included a loose agreement to prevent the future shortfall in Social Security, but the two sides differed in the approaches they wanted.




Boehner would have let the Bushtax cuts expire on the top incomers- in exchange for repealing the individual health care mandate.



White House: We Thought We Were Down To The Details

Susan Crabtree | July 22, 2011

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/white-house-we-thought-we-were-down-to-the-details.php?ref=fpblg



The Hill has more on this. re: the Bush tax cuts and the individual mandate



At that meeting, the House GOP leaders presented a framework for a grand bargain that would initiate a two-step process. Under their proposal, Congress would pass an increase in the debt limit before Aug. 2 along with a cap on discretionary spending. That legislation would also have set up a process for congressional action over the next several months on entitlement and tax reforms and would have authorized an increase in the debt limit roughly through February.

The White House balked at the short-term nature of the debt limit increase, insisting on Obama’s demand that Congress allow the Treasury to borrow funds through the 2012 elections.

Instead, the administration proposed a long-term increase in the debt ceiling along with a failsafe to ensure Congress acted on entitlements and taxes despite the pressures of an election year. The administration proposal called for decoupling the George W. Bush-era tax rates, thereby allowing the high-income rates to expire, which Republicans have long opposed, while allowing lower-income rates to remain. On the Democratic side, the failsafe would have initiated automatic cuts in Medicare and Medicaid if Congress did not act.

Boehner and Cantor opposed the Democratic trigger mechanism and proposed that if Congress failed to act, the individual mandate in Obama’s signature healthcare law would be repealed.

“We were insisting that there had to something in there from the Affordable Care Act. We specifically requested that they repeal the individual mandate,” a House GOP aide said. That would “make the politics of it even. The politics would be bad for both sides. That was the concept we were striving for.”

Obama “had not conceded on that,” the aide said. In a separate briefing, White House officials confirmed that they balked at the possibility of scrapping the requirement that all Americans buy health insurance.



Leaders returning to White House after Boehner cuts off debt talks

By Russell Berman - 07/22/11 09:20 PM ET
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/173091-boehner-cuts-off-debt-talks-with-obama


Bloomberg:


Tax Dispute Gang of 6's baseline v Congressional leaders'.


House Republican leadership aides said the key stumbling block to a deficit-reduction agreement was the dispute over taxes, with the president pressing for more revenue to be raised through a tax code rewrite than Republicans were willing to accept.

The aides said a breaking point in the talks came after a bipartisan group of senators known as the Gang of Six unveiled its plan on July 19 to slash $3.7 trillion from the debt through spending cuts and a tax overhaul that would produce $1 trillion more in tax revenue. The bipartisan group used a different baseline to compare revenue than congressional leaders used in the White House negotiations.

The Republican aides said the revenue increase in the bipartisan plan was larger than one Boehner and Obama had tentatively agreed to. An administration official said the plan changed the political dynamics in the push for a deal.


Rather than offering any counterproposals, Boehner’s team broke off communication, the official said.



The Bloomberg article stipulates that Obama would have included SS Cola cuts in the bargain. It wasn't $650 billion cuts in post-it notes and paper clips.


And if you haven't had enough, the grudge match could conceivably get dragged out another extra week.

Greater-than-expected tax receipts might give the U.S. Treasury an extra week -- until Aug. 10 -- before exhausting its borrowing authority, analysts with New York-based Barclays Capital said yesterday. The government has collected about $14 billion more in tax revenue since July 14 “than we were expecting,” the analysts wrote.


more: Obama Summons Lawmakers to White House to Revive Debt Talks

Mike Dorning and Kate Andersen Brower - Jul 23, 2011 6:00 AM ET

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-22/obama-says-republicans-walking-away-from-fair-deal-in-debt-ceiling-talks.html


Where do things go now?

Boehner-Obama Talks Collapse, On To Plan B — The Question Is Which One?(TPM, Brian Beutler)

There are a few ways it can go. The one most recently floated comes from Pelosi. It would cut well over $2 trillion from current discretionary spending -- factoring in the expected wind-down of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- interest payments on the national debt, and certain mandatory programs. No entitlements. In exchange, Congress would raise the debt limit, and expedite a legislative debate on entitlement and tax reform.

Option two -- the Reid/McConnell plan, is sitting on a shelf in the Senate. It will include about $1.5 trillion in cuts, and create a 12-member ad hoc congressional committee to address entitlements and tax reforms. This plan would transfer the authority to raise the debt limit to President Obama, and give members of Congress the chance to take a symbolic protest vote against that action.

An earlier version of that plan, proffered by McConnell, included no cuts to spending, no committee, but would have required Obama and Democrats in Congress to go through myriad political machinations, before the debt limit can be raised.


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/boehner-obama-talks-collapse-on-to-plan-b----the-question-is-which-one.php


If you missed it yesterday, see what Pelosi and other Dem leadership was working on if the Obama-Boehner negotiations blew up:

Pelosi Outlines Revenue-Free Path Forward On Debt Limit Fight

Brian Beutler | July 22, 2011, 2:28PM

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/pelosi-outlines-revenue-free-path-forward-on-debt-limit-fight.php

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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for the details, chill.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Welcome. Just some random (dry) facts and anecdotes
seemingly somewhat consistent with each other.


:hi:
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I prefer 'dry' facts to vitriol-laced stuff we see so much of.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. We should try to put links in this thread to good information like this
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 12:51 PM by EFerrari
for the posters who are still under the impression that it's all "rumors" and that "we still don't know anything".
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I forget things. Much has gotten lost in the pace of events. I was trying to remember
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 04:07 PM by chill_wind
for example, what was in the original McConnell proposal less than a couple weeks ago that was so bad.

Now I remember-- Tea Partiers wanted to burn McConnell in effigy for trying to free the debt ceiling hostage. And for the WH, it wasn't "Big". Not the Grand Bargain.



Details of ‘backup plan’

McConnell also gave details of what he called his “backup plan” if the two sides fail to reach an agreement. Under the proposal, Congress would change the rules surrounding the debt limit for the remainder of Obama’s first term.

That measure would create a new legal structure authorizing the president to raise the debt limit by as much as $2.5 trillion in three installments. The first, an increase of $700 billion, would come immediately. The next two, worth $900 billion each, would come this fall and sometime next summer.

On each occasion, Obama would be required to submit to Congress an explicit request for an increase, along with a menu of proposed spending cuts equal to the requested increase. The submission of the president’s first request would automatically raise the debt limit by $100 billion to give the Treasury Department breathing room while Congress considers the request.

Lawmakers would then have 15 days to pass a resolution of disapproval, giving them an opportunity to go on record against raising the debt ceiling. But Obama could veto the resolution, and the debt limit would then rise, providing that at least 34 Democratic senators stood firm in upholding his veto.

McConnell’s strategy makes no provision for spending cuts to be enacted. Aides said lawmakers could pick and choose from the president’s list when they put together appropriations bills in a separate process.



McConnell outlines new proposal on debt ceiling
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/debt-talks-show-growing-gap-between-white-house-gop/2011/07/12/gIQAbKuiAI_story_1.html

(7-12-11)

Conservatives Instantly Turned Off By McConnell Debt Ceiling Contingency Plan
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/conservatives-instantly-turned-off-by-mcconnell-debt-ceiling-contingency-plan.php?ref=fpa


Still, I wonder if that wasn't most reasonable offer we were going to get from the crazies; the best we could have done for now-or at least a bit cleaner and better - than what was then starting to get cooked up by Reid/McConnell, with ginning up yet more 12-lawmaker "deficit commission" stuff.


Reactions (among right and left)on the Reid McConnell hybrid plan:

Budget experts raise concerns over McConnell debt-limit fallback plan
By Erik Wasson - 07/17/11 06:28 AM ET

Liberal and centrist budget experts are joining conservatives in raising red flags about the debt-ceiling plan that is being hashed out by Senate leaders as a last-ditch option for avoiding a national default.

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/171885-budget-experts-raise-concerns-over-mcconnell-debt-limit-fallback-plan


Reid, McConnell working on 'hybrid' solution to bypass House GOP in debt standoff

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/14/994604/-Reid,-McConnell-working-on-hybrid-solution-to-bypass-House-GOP-in-debt%C2%A0standoff?via=blog_595751

which eventually the WH wanted to sweeten up more with stuff from the Biden talks, in still trying to get something "Big":


By all reports, the plan would combine the relatively clean debt ceiling vote proposal McConnell originally forwarded and be "sweetened" with spending cuts, possibly those already identified in the Biden talks, which might include the chained CPI COLA cuts to Social Security and the new blended rate formula for cutting state Medicaid support. It tacks on a new deficit commission comprised of members of Congress.


White House working with Reid, McConnell on 'Plan B' for debt ceiling deal

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/15/994892/-White-House-working-with-Reid,-McConnell-on-Plan-B-for-debt%C2%A0ceiling%C2%A0deal


---------------------------------------

There is the legitimate criticism that the original McConnell proposal put Dems though all kinds of burdensome hoops and machinations, but in the end Obama would have had veto power. At least there weren't any new 'commissions' and entitlement "sweeteners" in it. I'm sure there were all kinds of other pro-con arguments, but overall I'm still trying to see how that would have been all bad. In the subsequent Reid-McConnell-WH 3-way negotiations, it seems it only gets more mucked up from there on.

(All that right here may just further prove I for one still 'don't know anything', lol but I think the great protectiveness toward our safety net programs and the fears/questions about the process for protecting them are always fair.)


:hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I put links together that I found useful here.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thank you EF. Bookmarking for a couple I missed
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 04:15 PM by chill_wind
or only skimmed before.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. Still holding out for "Big".
Urgent White House Meeting Ends Without Breakthrough
Susan Crabtree | July 23, 2011, 1:00PM


An urgent Saturday morning White House debt talks meeting between President Obama and Congressional leaders ended after less than an hour, with both sides remaining in a stand-off and pledging to keep working through the weekend.

President Obama continued to press the leaders for a grander bargain rather than a short-term extension of the debt ceiling so the nation would not default, arguing that such a stopgap step could cause the country's credit rating to be downgraded, harming the economy and causing every American to pay higher credit cards rates and more for home and car loans.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/urgent-white-house-meeting-ends-without-breakthrough.php?ref=fpa

next up- "Boehner, Reid, McConnell and Pelosi meeting at the Capitol at 5:30 p.m. ET on debt ceiling. "
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Aug 2 Crunch date not set in stone
Might be past August 2 per Bloomberg snippet in OP

More:

Debt Ceiling Deadline Might Be August 10, Not August 2: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/22/debt-ceiling-august-10_n_907480.html

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