maximum sentence in Norway 21 years

[medeak]

Columbia just released 3rd worst serial killer in world of recorded history as had similar law. Am not in favor of death penalty but surely this man should not ever see the light of day.

[murielm99]

1. I wonder if they can sentence him to 21 years for each

death.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. Are there places for the criminally insane? nt

[medeak]

4. good question

son skyped me from Columbia as wrote article for newspaper re serial killer there being released and knew Norway's stand. If insane then so many right wing christian nutjobs here in US targeting abortion clinics the same?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. Are there places for the criminally insane here? nt

[freshwest]

33. Yes, there are.

[freshwest]

32. Yes, they have them.

[Tesha]

53. Of course.

Unlike here during the Reagan years, they have health care so
they don't turn out their insane to wander the streets begging
for spare change.

Tesha

[Sarah Ibarruri]

54. I'm with you. This country began being turned to pure SHIT during Reagan, and it hasn't stopped

And this president seriously needs to STOP using that piece of dog shit, Reagan, as an example of anything but heinous, malodorous evil.

[Search and Destroy]

3. 21 years and then he goes before a board every 5 years

Who decide whether or not it is safe to release him from prison. He will never be let out of prison for the rest of his life, bottom line.

[medeak]

6. link? thanks

as very curious

[AlabamaLibrul]

18. If the additional time is served, and the offender is still considered dangerous, a prisoner can

continue to receive up to five years additional containment, and this, in theory, could result in actual life imprisonment.

Reference from Wikipedia, it's in Norwegian but here's a relevant bit roughly translated:

Terms to impose custodial

When the prison is not deemed adequate to protect others' lives, health or freedom, the detention in prison under custodial imposed when the offender is guilty of having committed or attempted to commit a violent crime, a sexual offense, a detention, an arson or other crimes that infringed someone else's life, health or freedom, or risk the legal benefits of risk and conditions of the second or third paragraph.

Was the offense of a serious nature, there must be an obvious risk that the offender will again commit a serious crime as mentioned in the first paragraph.

Was the offense of a less serious nature, must
a) The offender previously have committed or attempted to commit a serious crime as referred to in subsection
b) it must be assumed to be a close link between the past and is now committed the offense, and
c) the risk of relapse into a new serious offenses mentioned in the first paragraph, must be very nearby.

In assessing the risk of recurrence after the second and third paragraphs should be given to the committed offense, compared especially with offender behavior and social and personal functioning. For matters referred to in subsection particular importance shall be given to whether the offender has previously committed or attempted to commit a serious crime as mentioned in the first paragraph.

Before ruling on the detention shall be delivered, personal examination shall be made of the accused. The court may decide that the accused should be subjected to forensic psychiatric examination instead of or in addition to personal study.

Original Norwegian text: http://www.lovdata.no/all/tl-20050520-028-008.html

[medeak]

20. excellent

why I love DU. If only Columbia did the same.

[Nailzberg]

27. I got one, but you'll need google translate.

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forvaring

(Dang, looks like I was beaten to it)

[Renew Deal]

5. If this guy is such a fan of Al Queda, Norway should hand him over.

Let them deal with him.

[FourScore]

11. What makes you think he's a fan of Al Queda? Because he's not.

All we know is that he hates Muslims, he hates liberals, and he's a nutjob.

[Renew Deal]

14. He has a fondness for Al Queda and Bin Laden

"Oddly, despite his evident hatred of Muslims and Arabs, "Berwick" professes admiration for al Qaeda, which he lists as one of only two "successful militant organisations" due to its "superior structural adaptation."

"If Muhammad was alive today," he writes, "Usama Bin Laden would have been his second in command."

Elsewhere, he cites al Qaeda's training manual as a reference, and declares, "Just like Jihadi warriors are the plum tree of the Ummah, we will be the plum tree for Europe and for Christianity."

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/07/23/what_did_the_oslo_killer_want

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FourScore]

30. Ohh. I hadn't seen that.

Geez this guy's a kook.

Thank you for pointing it out.

:toast:

[Renew Deal]

36. It's OK.

There's still a lot of new info coming out. There's over 1500 pages in his "book."

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

35. Sure, and if a Lockheed engineed complimented the craftsmanship of a Russian MiG in the 60s...

...that means he's a communist sympathyzer. :eyes:

[Renew Deal]

37. Why do the facts bother you?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. The facts don't bother me. Wrong interpretations of them do. -nt

[LadyLeigh]

51. Like Hitler had an admiration for Stalin.

The respect of an efficient enemy. No more than that.

[snagglepuss]

7. Such a short term of imprisonment seems obscene. For crimes like this

someone should be imprisoned for life and never have a moment of freedom.

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. The actual ordinance is that the maximum sentence before a parole opportunity

He'll likely have the same chances of release as Charles Manson does when he goes up for parole.

I am in favor of such ordinances. Life without parole is a ludicrous sentence; I am in favor of parole opportunities, even if some people should never have that opportunity granted.

[GSLevel9]

9. so much more sensible than draconian American punishment

:sarcasm:

[Lex]

12. Do you have a link?

For the maximum sentence for anything being 21 years total?

[medeak]

15. here's one of many

http://open.salon.com/blog/catherine_forsythe/2011/07/23/norway_law_maximum_prison_sentence_is_21_years

[Lex]

39. thanks . . . seems like we have harsher punishments but more crime.

[kestrel91316]

13. I trust the Norwegians to run their criminal justice system as THEY see fit.

[EFerrari]

17. Seriously. Human rights organizations all over the world

routinely protest ours. We're in no position to give advice.

[kestrel91316]

28. I have no doubt that this case may cause them to reassess, or at least

think long and hard about sentencing, but it's THEIR business, not mine. And certainly not for me to judge.

[kenny blankenship]

25. It generally seems to work for them - very low homicide rate (until yesterday, anyhow)

Norway had a homicide rate of just 0.6 per 100,000 citizens. Compare this with 5.0 per 100,000 for the United States, and 1.28 for the UK, 1.31 for France, and 1.81 for Canada.

Our Smith&Wesson Leaderboard leader for the latest year of available data is little El Salvador, with 71 homicides a year per 100,000 live targets. El Salvador, small in size but great in malice. Somebody send El Salvador a savior! Or at least some bulletproof vests.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. The US is also a minority in life sentences

Then again we have the largest percentage of people per population behind bars.

I say let Norway deal with this guy in whatever way their SYSTEM OF JUSTICE deals with it.



Life imprisonment laws around the world.
Blue indicates those countries where life imprisonment laws have been abolished.
Red means the country retains it.
Green means life imprisonment may only be imposed by certain restrictions.
Grey means status unknown, presumed legal

[medeak]

19. think law will change for certain...link

http://open.salon.com/blog/catherine_forsythe/2011/07/23/norway_law_maximum_prison_sentence_is_21_years

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I suspect they will have the argument

and like Mexico, they will reject most of the changes that some propose. Mexico rejected going back to the death penalty.

Every time you have a horrific crime you have these discussions. How a nation responds tells us a lot about their real maturity at that moment.

I doubt they will return to the death penalty, and while they might lengthen sentences I doubt life will come back.

Also whatever they decide will not, cannot, apply to this guy... sentencing will happen well before any legislature does that and the principle of not applying something to a past event is common throughout Western Europe.

[Xithras]

24. deleted

Posted in wrong place.

[riverwalker]

23. Norway executed Vidkun Quisling

They reinstituted the death penalty just to apply to him. Maybe do the same in this case. Norway had abolished capital punishment in 1905, but its government-in-exile reinstated it expressly for dealing with high-level collaborators.

[Spider Jerusalem]

29. Norway is a signatory to the sixth protocol of the European Convention on Human Rights

which bans capital punishment except in time of war. They're not bringing back the death penalty. (And it wasn't just to apply to Quisling; they tried and executed quite a few high-level collaborators and German nationals.)

[Xithras]

26. Norway has a rehabilitative prison system. The U.S. has a punitive system.

The Norwegian prison system isn't designed to punish people, but to fix them so that they can be cured of whatever the root of their criminal behavior was, and then rejoin society. According to Norwegian society, if someone comes out of prison after 20 years and re-offends, then the system has failed, not the person.

He'll get 21 years of intensive mental counseling, behavior modification therapy, drug treatment if he needs it, and job training if it's applicable. If everything works, he'll walk out of prison 21 years from now a completely different person than when he went in.


In the USA, we lock our criminals in cages and leave them to their own devices, often releasing people who are more dangerous than when they entered prison. Are we really in ANY position to criticize their justice system? Personally, I think we could take a few lessons from it.

[NYC Liberal]

31. No; this guy should be locked up for life.

I oppose the death penalty, but there are some crimes for which the perpetrator should simply be punished -- for a very long time.

Eventually, he may be 'rehabilitated' in the sense that he can accept responsibility for what he did. But that does not mean he should ever be released from prison into society.

[Xithras]

42. Sorry. I think that vengeance has no place in a justice system.

You have a very regressive, and typically American, attitude towards prison. We're one of the most backward nations on Earth when it comes to the way we treat criminals.

Norway's crime rate, including their murder rate, is a fraction of our own. The fact that they're more concerned with FIXING their criminals than PUNISHING them is a big part of that.

Most people convicted of premeditated murder in Norway spend less than 15 years in prison for it. During their stay, they get to live in cells that are nicer than most apartments, and they even have a prison on an island where the prisoners get to stay in "vacation homes" and roam the landscape at will. No cells.

Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates on the planet. Their system may seem surreal to Americans who are fixated on "punishing" people, but their system works FAR better than ours does, and at a fraction of the cost.

[NYC Liberal]

47. For other crimes, I agree with you. For certain crimes such as mass murder,

absolutely not. And this attitude is not "American." Are you of the opinion that everyone in Norway agrees that murderers should spend so little time in prison? Or that only Americans think people who murder nearly 100 people should spend more than 15 years in prison?

It is not about vengeance; it is about punishment for a crime. Yes, rehabilitation should play a much larger part in our justice system than it does today, but there also needs to be punishment.

Oh, and as for island "vacation homes" and "cells that are nicer than most apartments"? Not when we have millions of innocent people living on the streets or in squalor. People who did nothing wrong. Let's spend the money on nice housing for them before we spend it on prisoners.

[Union Scribe]

52. Lol.

How, pray tell, do you "fix" a predator like that? Yeah there are tons of problems with our system, but I'll take the "regressive" part that keeps monsters away from innocent people forever, thanks.

[Nye Bevan]

60. YES. Timothy McVeigh, Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein might have been model prisoners

and ended up genuinely repenting their crimes, just like Morgan Freeman in "The Shawshank Redemption".

Osama could have been released after 20 years or so to spend the rest of his life advising young people not to turn to terrorism.

[medeak]

34. indeed it's a system that is to be applauded

But do you think there are people that are not able to be rehabbed with therapy or meds?

[Hippo_Tron]

41. I'd say there are people that we haven't figured out how to rehabilitate yet

But science does advance. I'd say at the present time, a person like this probably ought not to be released from prison. But on the whole, there's a lot that we could learn from systems that actually try to rehabilitate criminals rather than just punish them.

[anneboleyn]

45. Sociopaths do not "rehabilitate." They may be released from prison, but they do not develop empathy

or normal human emotions. Until there is some sort of medication that changes the entire wiring of their brains, letting them out into the general population generally results in misery.

[Selatius]

50. Then it becomes a mental health issue, no longer a criminal matter.

Such people are incapable of feeling empathy for others. They should be institutionalized to prevent harm to themselves and society in general. A prison cell won't do them any good.

[Xithras]

43. Yes, but Norway has a way to deal with them as well.

Their system is based on the assumption that sane, rational people can be educated and fixed. However, there will always be a portion of the population who can't be fixed. The Norwegian government treats this as a mental problem, and true dangers to society can be involuntarily committed for life to a mental health facility if it's believed that they present an ongoing danger to the public.

And yes, Norway uses this backup pretty often. They have one of the highest involuntary mental health commitment rates on the planet.


It's one of the big differences between our cultures. When Americans see people who are irredeemably harmful to society, we call them "evil" and lock them away to "punish" them. When the Norwegians see the same people, they call them "sick" and force them to be treated by mental health professionals.

[anneboleyn]

46. Sociopaths are controversial -- it is often argued that "treatment" is counterproductive in their

case(s) by professionals as sociopaths merely learn to imitate appropriate behavior (through forms of therapy) and also learn how to manipulate others more effectively.

[brentspeak]

40. They're not going to let this guy out -- ever

And thank goodness, for that.

[Ghost Dog]

48. Yes. Well put. That is the case in Spain also, since more civilised

criminal law was enacted following the end of the Franco dictatorship.

And, yes, this applies to ETA terrorists too - and has been successful in many cases, partly leading to the currently successful shift in the Basque independence movement away from the use of violence towards more normal political processes.

[Confusious]

56. Some people can't be fixed

As sad as it is, it's true.

The majoriity can be rehabilitated if we would try, but some are never going to be. Some, like this guy, should never see the light of day again.

[stevedeshazer]

58. +1, that's exactly how it works and I wish the U.S. did the same.

I'm Lutheran and part Norwegian, Swedish, and Finnish.

That system makes perfect sense to me.

Forgiveness and redemption beats punishment and retribution. Every time.

[Danger Mouse]

62. Sick twisted fucks who murder children are beyond rehabilitation.

[grahamhgreen]

44. Link? I dont believe it.

[Nailzberg]

49. Its true, but with an asterisk.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=no&u=http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forvaring&ei=tt4rTsu4OsnWiALW2LiwAg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dforvaring%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DxSv%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US%20%3Cimg%20src=

Norwegian wikipedia site via Google Translate. To save you time, I'll summarize.


Basically, the maximum sentence in Norway is 21 years, even for murder. However, if the state believes someone isn't rehabilitated after the completion of their sentence, they can argue to get 5 years of containment tacked on. And every five years, they can do it again and again. So it is possible to incarcerate someone for life. That's likely what is in store for this a-hole.

[Lex]

55. so you CAN get life in prison

just that the person is reviewed in 5 year increments after 21 years

[NNN0LHI]

57. Correct. He will never be released from prison

[Nye Bevan]

59. How can you be so sure?

Every 5 years he will get the chance to argue that he has been "rehabilitated". What if the state cannot prove that this is not the case?

Surely a simple "life without parole" would be better?

[Danger Mouse]

61. I highly dounbt that this sick twisted piece of shit will ever be released.

Releasing a sick fuck like this back into society is just asking for more carnage.