German tourist hailed a hero as he sailed into gunfire to save 30 lives.

[snagglepuss]

snip

Mr Gleffe, who was staying on a holiday campsite on the mainland, raced to his boat and took to the water immediately after hearing the shots and seeing plumes of smoke on the horizon.

As the names of some of the young victims began to emerge, he told how he had bravely rescued scores of teenagers who fled for their lives as Breivik's bullets rained down.

snip

"I took between four and five trips. After that the police asked me to stop," he told the local Dagbladet newspaper.

snip

"Cooperation with the police and rescue crews afterwards was very good, but it all came too late. The first time I was out I was all alone."



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8658437/Norway-shooting-German-tourist-hailed-a-hero-after-saving-30-lives.html

[Parker CA]

1. True hero right there. nt

[KittyWampus]

26. Here's his pix. He had binoculars & thank goodness was able to help.

[libmom74]

48. a true hero

[whatwasthequestion]

2. Agreed

Just doing what had to be done....Good man.

[Faygo Kid]

3. Obviously better than the Norwegian police, who have penance to pay.

Heads must roll on this one. Many - at least half - died because the Norwegian police did not respond in a timely fashion.

Not at all acceptable.

[Lars77]

4. What the fuck do you know about it?

A bomb had just gone off blowing up the government district in the capital. All the available forces were on their way in there to assist in what seemed like a huge coordinated terrorist attack.

If they left units out in the countryside that could have saved lives in the event of more attacks in the city, would you have said the same thing?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Lars77]

8. It's likely that i know someone, i will give them your regards. nt

[lunatica]

10. You don't think there were literally dozens of 911 calls from the people on the island?

I read an account from a young woman who said she and lots of others called their parents, updated their twitter and facebook accounts to let people know they were still alive. At one point they all started texting so the murderer couldn't hear them talking. The police should have responded right away. They probably had more information coming in about the shooting.

[Lars77]

12. It's about a 45-50 minute drive to get there from Oslo.

All available units was called into the city because this guy blew up the government district.

Add the confusion, i'm not surprised it took that long.

I am aware that some route planners say the ride is shorter, but believe me. I lived in that city for 31 years.

[indurancevile]

32. it's about 20- 25 miles. they must drive slow in norway.

[Lars77]

36. We do. Theres no motorway. Maybe it could be done in 35 minutes,

but he would still need time to get onto the island. I dont understand whats so strange about this.

[indurancevile]

41. if there's no motorway what do they drive on?

[immoderate]

42. Roads?

I think motorway is what some might call highway or even freeway.

--imm

[indurancevile]

46. except there is 15 km of freeway from oslo to sandvika, then 3-4 lanes with barrier between

(like a freeway) for the next 15-odd km. only the last bit near the fyord is two-lane road with no barrier.

'motorway' is not a word i'm familiar with. i thought it meant 'road'.

google maps says 34 minutes.

[Lars77]

44. wow. nt

[malaise]

22. They could not - they didn't have boats

and they had to use army helicopters.

[Lasher]

37. There were heroic people using at least two boats to evacuate people from the island.

I'm sure they would have been happy to ferry policemen there.

[snagglepuss]

11. It is now common practice for terrorists to attack several targets to create

chaos so police should not be surprised by concurrent events and ought to havebeen perpared to deal with more than one crisis. Furthermore, I believe it is the Telegraph that is reporting that Norwegian police ignored a report from March 2011 warning of growing RW extremism in Norway.

Regarding the slow response: Since the police helicopter was south of Oslo why didn't police commandeer an air ambulance or a news chopper? Aren't you appauled that a news crew was flying over the island filming the Brevik killing his victims as the police were landing on the island?

Could not the local police have had a number of boats ready for the SWAT Team so the SWAT team didn't have pile into one that was too small and threatened to sink?

[Lars77]

14. Now look here.

I am still trying to come to terms with the fact that almost 100 people have been murdered in the most violent episode in my lifetime, in the city i was born and raised. It's very easy to sit across the atlantic and figure that it's negligence or incompetence. But i'll answer your questions one by one.


1. This man now seem to have acted alone. He spent nine years from the beginning of his "manifesto" until he carried out the attack. He did everything to cover his tracks down to moving to a farm and registering his company as an agricultural business just so he could buy the fertilizer without being suspicious. He simulated the attack several times, including timing his drive out to the island.

2. The police helicopter is not able to carry passangers, it's a tiny one for observation, and it is the only police helicopter in the country. I also don't know what kind of helicopter the news organizations were flying, but the air ambulances are small Eurocopter types that can hardly carry people. The news choppers are probably the same size.


3. No, local police do not have a number of boats ready for SWAT teams. In fact, some police presincts only have ONE patrol car. We are not a police state. Our country has the population of South Carolina and the size of the United Kingdom. Not every lake can have a police boat.

When the bombs went off in the city, whoever was on watch went into the city to help. Obviously that was a mistake, but how would you know that he would strike exactly where he did? By your logic, no police outside oslo should have moved at all.


Sorry if i am getting emotional here, it's just incredibly frustrating to see people speculate about this sort of thing when you honestly don't know the area or the country very well. It's not like in the US where you can just comandeer a Blackhawk or something in two minutes. You also have to factor in that this was holiday time when most people, including most police, are away.

[Name removed]

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[uppityperson]

19. :(

hugs to you, it sucks

[Lars77]

20. Sorry, im just getting too emotional. I'm gonna take a break.

[uppityperson]

21. There are always hindsight armchair participants.

the whole thing sucks and you have my condolences. Take a break, good idea.

[lunatica]

24. I apologize for jumping on the police situation

Please accept my apology. I certainly didn't mean to disparage another country. Thanks for at least giving us the benefit of your explanation.

[Lars77]

25. I'm sorry too, discussion forums are for discussion. nt

[sabrina 1]

31. I'm so sorry for what happened in your country

:hug:

[Zookeeper]

27. My heart goes out to you and yours. Thank you for taking....

the time to post here.

:cry:

[RC]

29. There are too many people here that think that Norway is just like the police state we are,

With all the same war equipment and military training the police here receive.
Not so. Some places are still civilized.

[roguevalley]

30. All if feel is hurt and love for Norway and her people. I am sure

that everyone did all they could given what they knew. The tourist is a hero. God bless and keep Norway close.

[Art_from_Ark]

33. I can understand how you feel, Lars

I am in Japan, and I saw all sorts of wild speculation about what was happening over here in the weeks following the March 11 disasters, including claims that private American citizens were being forcibly evacuated from Japan, that all of Tokyo was going to be evacuated, and that 1/3 of the country was going to be uninhabitable.

By the way, my condolences go to the people of Norway.

[librechik]

40. Dear Lars, thank you for your courage and compassion

don't let mean people on the internet bother you. No one could blame you for getting emotional under the circumstances.

And thank you so much for your personal knowledge of Oslo and Norway, which contributed so much to this thread. God bless you.

[Name removed]

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[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Every time we have an incident we have monday morning

quarebacks

Now I wasn't there, but I've done the EMS shtick and I understand something about this.

1.- When you have a device go off on or around a MAJOR government building... you tend to dispatch resources to THAT TARGET and OTHER GOVERNMENT TARGETS. in the lingo your goal is to HARDEN other possible targets.

2.- No I don't know the roads in question, but it seems to me they are like some of our narrow roads, where I had to respond on. This means, you have a few issues, among them going fast. You just don't do that.

3.- Even in countries where the army gets to play... which is not the case in the US, at least openly... getting those choppers from the army is not as easy as you think. Having done this in a rescue situation, it took 45 minutes for the chopper to respond. and there were no bullets involved. And yes, most news crews use small choppers, which have a LIMITED cargo capacity, and rarely is the pilot trained in insertion. And while I "transformed" a police chopper into a medevac in the field it is all but standard or advisable. In fact, some folks who are in the business looked at us as crazy for doing that... chopper and improvisation are not usually a good mix.

4.- I am sure the cops, because it happens EVERY TIME... are doing a review of the whole response. This is like SOP. And I am sure there is now a revision in response times and methods coming... like any other operation, they are at the lessons learned stage.

5.- You think our cops have not seriously goofed as well? May I offer the Hollywood robbery? Lesson from that one are the AR15 in sergeant cars for LAPD. And that is the one that comes immediately to mind... then there is the Rodney King shall well say... incident.

6.- Monday morning quarebacking is kind of dishonest and serves nobody, well except the people who were involved in this, who are doing it... for a lessons learned.

7.- Every response, and I mean this, from your every day, run of the mill car stop... all the way to an MCI, every one has something that was done wrong... from experience.

[rhett o rick]

35. self delete

[Name removed]

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[Selatius]

23. Likely the Norwegian police weren't sure what to do. They aren't hardened like NYPD.

Besides, prior to now, they never had to deal with such a massive event. Here in the US we know better with 9/11 and Oklahoma City.

[Dappleganger]

34. Heads will roll?

Oh good grief, you do know that nothing of this magnitude has ever happened in Norway? These good people were doing the very best they could, no doubt.

[LanternWaste]

38. I imagine many of us pretend we're clever enough to have absolute knowledge...

I imagine many of us pretend we're clever enough to have absolute knowledge of the events, and draw criticism to it to better validate our presuppositions.

That being somewhat acceptable, I would hazard... :shrug:

[Xithras]

39. When you travel to a remote area, you can't complain when the police aren't there in 5 minutes.

I hike and travel all over the western United States, and there are MANY areas in our own country where a "typical" police response is in excess of one hour. Rural areas, far from freeways, and down dirt roads. We're not talking about the backroads of Wyoming here either. I was once one of the first people to show up at a car accident site on a dirt road in the Mojave desert. Even with reported injuries, there were 50 minutes between the first phone call and the arrival of the first police officer. That's in Southern California, less than 100 straight line miles from the Los Angeles suburbs.

I've also been at high Sierra camps where the response time by rangers to emergencies is measured in HOURS. I can't imagine the carnage that would follow if someone walked into Vogelsang in Yosemite and started shooting. You could easily end up with 50+ victims, and the shooter walking around for 2-3 hours before the police showed up.

This camp was in a remote area, and was completely isolated from the surrounding land by water. The 90 minute response time isn't nearly as unusual as the media is making it out to be.

[suffragette]

5. Also of note, the compassion of those rescued even as they were in danger

"The youths were good. They supported each other and were organised, and said who needed first aid and who had to be taken into the boat first. 'You must take him, you must take him', they said."
"They were happy to get help, but they were unsure whom they could trust."

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. k&r

[hlthe2b]

9. Oh, that restores some faith in mankind, just knowing this...

Thank God for Mr Gleffe - Gott sei Dank für Herr Gleffe..... :loveya:

[EFerrari]

13. Good man. n/t

[cbayer]

15. Wow! Great story. Thanks for sharing it.

:hi:

[snagglepuss]

28. I'm sure more heroic stories will come out as other locals also responded

when the call went out. This man responded without even knowing what was happening other than hearing shots. Truly brave.

[Blue_Tires]

43. kick

[Raksha]

45. K & R - thanks for the link.

It's good to know that some humans are still capable of heroism.