Let's face it, president Obama and now Senate Majority Leader Reid

[WCGreen]

are more concerned about being painted into a tax and spend corner by the GOP, which will happen anyway, than looking out for the people that supported them.

I get it, it's adult to consider the needs of the whole vs. placating the base, but when you put your own political career, your own legacy above the future of our country... Well, that's a whole other kind of selfish.

I know, I know, they are thinking that if they can just get passed this they will live to fight another day. But really, how hard have they fought, especially for those who are deeply concerned about the future and the foundation of their retirement that they have depended on while pension funds went the way of the Dodo Bird and their 401k's were downsized by the manipulative scoundrels who wear $100k suits and strut down Wall Street.

The thing is once SS is determined to be touchable, then forget about it. It will disappear into the hands of the richest people who will have their low tax rates subsidized by your FICA contributions.

Onces it is no longer considered political suicide to raid the "entitlement" cupboard, it will be bare before you can say Goldman Sachs.

We are fucked. Maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow, but sooner than you think.

They have been dying to get their grubby hands on the SS fund and now president Obama and leader Reid are bending over backward to let them get at it.

Again, once the door is open, their ain't a strong enough Katie in all the world to bar that door.

I'm sick and tired of the little people, the people who tote the barge and make it all work, being pissed on by the elites in this seriously out of whack society of ours.

But wait, they stopped NFL labor unrest. Distraction reinstated.

What does that really say about our country that the only really successful Union left is the NFL players Union whose members have shown their solidarity many times by walking right on past Union Picket Lines.

Fuck! Fuck it all!

[dennis4868]

1. is the sky always falling in your world?

[WCGreen]

4. You don't think that once the trust fund is touched that it wont be touch to death...

If you don't think that then you are truly naive..

[dennis4868]

9. it was touched?

[WCGreen]

12. Just talking about and people seriously considering changes to the program

should be enough to rankle people.

I'm sorry I don't share your confidence that SS will not be altered by this deal.

And if it is, even a wee bit, there will be no stopping the raiders.

[dennis4868]

14. no, you said it was touched....

HYPERSPECULATION time...hahaha!

[WCGreen]

17. No I said...

The thing is once SS is determined to be touchable...

You added the "touched" part.

Perhpas you should read something before you comment.

[BuelahWitch]

5. Do you ever take off your rose colored "Obama can do no wrong" glasses?

it works both ways, honey.

[dennis4868]

10. I will take off my glasses...

when other irrational Obama haters take off their glasses...it works both ways, honey!

[Angry Dragon]

6. .............

:thumbsdown:

[girl gone mad]

23. Talk about irony.

ZOMG!! Deficits!11! Debt!!11!1 is the worst kind of "sky is falling" narrative.

[Cameron27]

32. !

:applause:

[grahamhgreen]

25. Why are you a Democrat. What policies do you believe in?

[CelticThunder]

2. They are showing their true colors in starkest relief. And it ain't pretty.

[midnight]

3. I want to know what Murdoch has on our Dems...

[snagglepuss]

7. Good question. nt

[DJ13]

8. We need to face it, parties are dead, its now ideology thats important

Our current Democrats would be Rockefeller (east coast socially liberal) Republicans in the past.

What the party once stood for has been corrupted by the easy money dangled in front of their faces by the wealthy.

We average Americans no longer HAVE a party of our own.

[DFLforever]

11. I think their main concern is getting the debt limit raised,

That's not something of little consequence even to us ordinary people, despite the teabaggers' nonchalance.

[WCGreen]

13. I understand, but if the deal is we will raise the limit if you do this and that...

then what comes next?

[DFLforever]

24. We lost the House in 2010 and are now paying for it

Many Democrats weren't enthusiastic about what went down in the last Congress but we are learning the hard way that things can get worse.

I want Pres Obama and the Democratic senators and congress members to do whatever they need to to get re-elected.

The alternatives are ugly.

[one_voice]

33. .....

:thumbsup:

[CoffeeCat]

15. The Democrats and Republicans...

...are aligned against us--because they are serving their masters--the corporations.

Please, please---I wish people would understand this and put away the magical thinking, such as: Oh no, the Dems are trying to avoid
being views as 'tax and spenders'....oh now the Democrats are so weak and the Republicans are such strong bullies.

Sorry...no.

None of that is true. If we stop for a moment, take a deep breath and look at what is happening--it is just so crystal clear.

The corporations, the neocons and the elites WHO HAVE BOUGHT OFF OUR POLITICIANS get their way every damn time.

Look at the healthcare bill. All of the speeches, pontificating and positioning was just a bunch of noise. The corporations
got what they asked for---a profit-centric healthcare bill that contained no real reforms and left the health-insurance industry
in control of our lives.

Same as with this debt-ceiling situation. The corporations want two things--Social Security dismantled brick by brick; no increased
taxes for themselves or their businesses.

This debt-ceiling LIE/CHARADE/THEATER is just a smokescreen, around which they've manufactured a crisis--so it looks as though
they just HAVE TO cut Social Security and not raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans.

We cannot buy into their lies and lap up the nonsense theater they force feed us. Pay attention to what they DO--not to what they say.

[WCGreen]

19. It's not magical thinking...

It is the reality of how the democratic party views attacks such as Tax and Spend. It has been going on so long I truly believe some democrats believe the charge.

Trust me on this one, I ran for office and had to face down a republican who repeated this about me every time we shared a stage.

[Webster Green]

16. Obama and the dem leaders should simply demand a clean bill.

No rethug bullshit schemes attached. Raise the debt limit, because we must. That's it. No more games and no more compromises.

[WCGreen]

18. that is exactly what they should do....

[kelly1mm]

20. Problem is, in a game of chicken, the crazies usually win. nt

[emulatorloo]

26. I believe They already did that. Teabag house will not pass such a thing.

House is raring to default.

[texshelters]

21. It has seemed for a while that Obama

has been more interested in getting reelected than helping the base of those that helped him get into office in 2009.

And the Citizen's United decision and other decisions concentrate election power in the hands of the corporations and wealthy in the United States.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[upi402]

22. except he doesn't have a chance in hell of getting re-elected

I wont waste my vote on him. I knew he wasn't worth my activism during the nomination process. Just another Clinton Republican disenfranchising us.

[texshelters]

31. I think he will get reelected

that is one thing he is good at, getting elected. Okay, and a few other things.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[emulatorloo]

27. Reid's plan allegedly leaves the entitlement programs untouched.

Looking for link

On edit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4934444&mesg_id=4934444

Nyt article in that thread: Mr. Reid, the Senate’s top Democrat, was trying on Sunday to cobble together a plan to raise the government’s debt limit by $2.4 trillion through the 2012 elections, with spending cuts of about $2.7 trillion that would not touch any of the entitlement programs that are dear to Democrats or raise taxes, which is anathema to Republicans. . .

[TreasonousBastard]

28. That's right-- they are useless, spineless scumbags selling us out when...

everyone here knows how easy it is to do the right thing in the face of unified majority opposition in the House.

Reading crap like this just means you've given up hope-- and if you give up hope, just crawl away and die somewhere without bothering the rest of us.

Lest you think I'm lecturing from some comfortable precipice, I'm technically homeless and untechnically broke. I lost everything and am now living in a relative's spare room while looking for an apartment I can afford on SS and part-time Gummint job-- both of which may disappear for a while in a week or so.

But, the last thing I'm doing is whining about the sorry state of things-- they're pretty bad but they have been worse, and they will get better and then be worse again some time in the future. That's just the way it's always been and I haven't figured out how to change it. And every time I start to feel the slightest bit sorry for myself or the country, or anything else, I see or am reminded of something so horrific all those petty problems of mine just fade from embarassment.

I continue to take my own tiny steps, treading lightly on the earth in the Quaker way, still working on environmental and social projects, and still working for local and national Democrats and still hoping things will get better.

I already know what it is to lose all my material things. I don't want to know what it's like to lose myself.

[WCGreen]

29. I don't believe it is crap because I have been on the inside looking

out and I know how political folks think...

There is also the feeling I have that once the political third rail is breeched, it will never be untouchable again.

Perhaps president Obama is an honest, true man trying to do the best he can to deal with an intractable House. But odds are he is just another venal political person whose career is dependent on not rocking the boat of those who own the boat and the ocean it sits upon.

[TreasonousBastard]

30. The horrible secret is that they're ALL venal political people...

Something I've noticed even at the local level is that once you put the "candidate" label on someone there is a subtle change-- you don't just sit down and chat any more, everything is a campaign event. When they win, they can become intolerable, and unreachable-- celebrities behind a wall. The most important people on the planet, and you are there to serve them.

There are exceptions, of course, since there are exceptions to everything, but when you get to the national level it just seems to get worse. Your primary job is really to raise money and run for the next election.

I'm as cynical about all this as anyone who grew up in NYC when Tammany Hall still ran things can be. Living in New Jersey when the real Governor was a triumvirate of county leaders didn't help me lose any of that cynicism.

We can rail against "the corporations" or wall street, or oil companies or anyone or anything else as "the enemy" but the simple truth is that power begets more power and has its magnetic attraction. Once in a while the right thing gets done because it has to be done and someone in power allows it, but most of the time we're just along for the ride and hope we don't end up being thrown off the bus.

And never forget your fellow citizens and their role in this. Yesterday I listened to my brother screaming about how it's all Obama's fault that he couldn't pay his bills. There's a lot like him out there, and they do scream a lot.