Why on earth am I having to argue over social security with Democrats?

[mmonk]

We are truly lost.

eom

[CleanGreenFuture]

1. It's inconceivable, shameful, and unforgiveable.

[sudopod]

2. Because humanity is a lot of confirmation-bias-addled authoritarians who trust their leaders? :3 nt

[KittyWampus]

14. LOL! And it's also a lot of confirmation bias addled ideologues who expect

the world to fit neatly into their box.

[Kermitt Gribble]

31. People defending Social Security from cuts are now ideologues??

Wow...

[liberation]

46. Not only that, but they consider it a hilarious topic

ergo the "LOL."

[Ganja Ninja]

58. Every Kitty post starts with an LOL no matter what the topic. n/t

[Dragonfli]

44. yes many Republicans believe a safety net is excess from ideologues

I understand why you have that point of view, Obama also believes that, he is a very good Reaganite Republican. I am sure you approve, you appear to have similar leanings.
I think I will go around calling myself a Republican and advocate a safety net, just to help even up the score, you have personally showed me the way.

[liberation]

45. "confirmation bias" another term that does not mean what you think it does

add it to the list...

[PVnRT]

57. Do you have any ideals at all?

Or are you simply in this to root for your team?

[Sherman A1]

3. Good Question

and one deserving a good answer.....

Wish I had one.

[Dappleganger]

4. Those are not real democrats.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whatchamacallit]

5. Crazy, huh K&R n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. Because (pardon my French) I'm beginning to think f*cked up Democrats have become Republican nt

[eridani]

10. Agreed. Democrats have become Republicans, and Republicans

--have become batshit crazy.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. Republicans are divided up into ordinary fascists and outright Nazi fascists nt

[Raksha]

43. That's a good way of describing it:

"Republicans are divided up into ordinary fascists and outright Nazi fascists."

[H2O Man]

7. Recommended.

Truly strange days.

[H2O Man]

40. PS:

The answer is, by no coincidence, to be found in some of the responses to your OP.

[mmonk]

51. Yes, I see.

I remember a time when Democrats could at least rally around that or at least have reasonable discussion. These powerful forces at play can divide any group anywhere it seems.

[reformist2]

8. What/who are you referring to?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Doctor_J]

12. I posted a poll a week ago

where DUers could vote on what level of SS cuts would be "acceptable", and "None" was a runaway winner. So we're mostly on the same page, but there are some stalwarts who will rally behind the president regardless of how Republican his proposals are.

[Bozita]

15. K&R, bigtime!

[woo me with science]

16. DLC/Third Way

That's why.

[Big Blue Marble]

17. We are lost because we have lost any real representation in Washington. N/T

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

26. The grand deal was never offered?

Besides, I was talking here about all the tired arguments that the right has carried for decades.

[EFerrari]

27. Nope. There has been good reporting, including from Obama himself.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1551722&mesg_id=1558596

[unblock]

19. by the standards of the 70's, today we have a republican party and a john birch society party.

real democrats are today considered "lunatic fringe".

oh, if only we had a GENUINELY fair and balanced media....

[newspeak]

55. yeah, well you can't call the new democrats old repugs

because even Eisenhower knew you don't mess with SS. I'd say some are more like economically irresponsible (wealthy old greedy farts' club) Reagan repugs.

[unblock]

61. most republicans only avoided messing with ss because we had a real democratic party back then.

but boy, most of them sure would have loved to if they thought they could get away with it.

[chill_wind]

20. DLC/Will Marshall was touting the very words "Grand Bargain" in 1999.

DLC | The New Democrat | January 1, 1999
A Grand Bargain on Social Security
By Will Marshall

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=125&subid=165&contentid=1307

DLC | New Dem Daily | March 20, 1998
Idea of the Week: Modernizing Social Security

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=125&subid=165&contentid=2354

Moynihan's Social Security Plan
AEI Online
Tuesday, March 24, 1998
http://www.aei.org/issue/8887

It's an argument Third Way/New Dems have been agitating in one way or another for- "fixing social security"- going back to at least 1995.

Kennedy's Quick Win for Social Security
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/26/kennedys_quick_win_for_social_security/

[nashville_brook]

21. b/c our president has decided that bargaining away SS is the "adult" thing to do...

[Marrah_G]

22. It's fucking bizarre.

Politics is a sporting event to those people.

[BeFree]

23. Because you refuse to have an open mind?

Because you just don't understand what is going on?

[Coyote_Bandit]

32. Ummmm......

I know an elderly couple in their mid 80's. Both worked and contributed to Social Security. They lived a modest lifestyle. She was a hairstylist and he worked at the farmer's co-op. They never earned a lot of money or had the opportunity to put aside significant funds for retirement. I can't recall them ever taking a travel vacation. Ever. They have no living children or grandchildren to call on for assistance.

A couple of years ago the wife returned to work cleaning other people's houses - a job that can be physically demanading. Yes, she has health problems but hers are not as debilitating as those now facing her husband. This 85 year old woman now works four full days a week. She went back to work because she and her husband could not continue to live their modest lifestyle on the Social Security benefits they receive. She needed to work so they could afford to buy food.

Apparently the "open minded" among us don't understand the present or future Main Street effect of cutting Social Security on folks like these.

We are a bankrupt nation lacking in humanity, principles, morality and community. We are not kind and benevolent to the people areound us. We will sacrifice fundamental beliefs to achieve gain. We govern our conduct on legalities rather than principles of right and wrong. We are a nation of groups with competing interests that refuse to advance our common interests. Stick a fork in us. We're done. Deservedly so. The Social Security debacle is just one more symptom of our approaching demise.

[BeFree]

33. You don't know me.

I think SS needs to be increased and given to everybody who needs it.
Call it welfare or whatever.

So maybe you should know who you are going after?

The OP and I had a discussion in another thread, is why I posted my reply to the OP.

Link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1570607&mesg_id=1570800

[Coyote_Bandit]

37. I know you by your words

If you wanted me to understand the context then perhaps you should have included that information in your post. My ability to read minds is a bit limited - as is my time to go back and review your prior posts in other threads.

You seem to be interested in persisting in pursuing a multi-thread dialogue with the OP. I'll leave you to that. Though if I were the OP I just might consider that stalking.

I'm having a party and need to spend some time updating my guest list.

[BeFree]

38. Nice to see you again

Do drop in again when you get a chance.

And as for your accusation of stalking, that says more about you than I ever cared to know.
And that is: you are just chitter-chattering.

[BobbyBoring]

24. The partys have really changed

I remember years ago, Harry Byrd (D) closed the public schools in VA because he didn't want "Darkies" attending.

[abelenkpe]

25. +1000 nt

[aintitfunny]

28. You should not have to.

But don't give up the battle, take a rest and get back on the front line.

[EFerrari]

29. Got me.

[kctim]

30. Do you believe social security would be affected by a default of the country?

[CreekDog]

34. I asked the same thing when Obama came out in favor of expanded oil drilling

a few weeks before the Gulf oil spill.

up until that point, opposing increased offshore oil drilling was a commonly held position on DU --up until that moment.

when i got flamed because the moment Obama came out in favor of it, I'm expected to change my political philosophy as quickly as he changed his.

well, it doesn't work that way!

and the same goes for Social Security.

[sabrina 1]

35. Good question, especially from Democrats. I expect to have

defend it from Republicans.

I guess once the DLC/New Democrats/Reagan Democrats or whatever they are calling themselves now infiltrated the party with their neo/con/lib policies, it was only a matter of time before they would try to privatize all public funds. And so far, they are doing a better job of it than the Repubs did, in education, HC, etc.

And some people actually go along with every excuse they make, every lie told about SS, because the thieves now have a 'D' after their names.

[A Simple Game]

36. You aren't arguing it with Democrats.

You must be confusing Democrat with Liberal or Progressive. It's a common mistake because there used to be liberals and progressives in a Democratic party back in the old days.

There is only one major political party in this country, the Conservative party. Everyone thinks they are a minor third party but they think wrong.

There is one large Conservative party with two branches, the Republicans, or reactionary branch, and the Democrats, a slightly saner branch.

Don't let it bother you, lots of people still make the same mistake.

[myrna minx]

39. Surreal, isn't it? n/t

[Zorra]

41. Because Ronald Reagan and Rush Limbaugh got into their heads?

:shrug:

[MisterP]

42. the Koch Bros.' DLC and the Powell-Memo-ish Kirkpatrick-Moynihan-Jackson

Coalition for a Democratic Majority have WON
after 1972 they wanted to take the party back from the peaceniks and the labor movement
after 1988 they started closing in on the Great Society and gun control ("they HAVE to be pro-gun if we want a majority!" later, "they HAVE to be anti-choice! or else conservatism will win!")
if nobody puts their foot down, things will just keep gravitating toward Big Money--i.e., getting more right-wing

[KoKo]

47. It's beyond disgusting...there are no words left to describe what's going on. n/t

[padruig]

48. Social Security (its an insurance policy, not an entitlement)

I have to admit I am offended whenever anyone, without regard to their political leanings refers to Social Security as an 'entitlement'.

It isn't, never has been, it is an insurance policy, a part of an institutional compact between our Government and its Citizens.

The rich do nothing for this country, the middle class, you and I, we're the builders.

It wasn't a rich man who built the Hoover Dam or the camp sites in our National Parks or the highway system. It was common folk who wanted to earn a fair wage and didn't want to see their last years of life end in poverty.



"There are No Anti-Government Conservatives, when it comes to the People's Social Security."
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

[JoeyT]

49. Pretty much.

They'll change their tunes after I finish betting their bank accounts at a poker game tonight.

Sure they're not technically MY bank accounts to bet, but think how big I'll win by bluffing my opponent. And if they call my bluff, it doesn't really hurt me one way or the other. So I don't really see a downside.

[Starry Messenger]

50. Because there are some Dems here that won't have to rely on the safety net

who find it inconceivable that not everyone won the sperm lottery like they did. The only reason they are not R's is that they find them unstylish. Otherwise they are every bit as fiscally conservative.

[quaker bill]

52. It helps to be accurate

[midnight]

53. Thankyou!

[cyberpj]

54. Because Democrats now get their campaign funding from Corporations. Unions? Not so much since

there are fewer and fewer of them every day now. And it's Corporations that want to privatize everything they can get their hands on.

[Cleita]

56. Because Bush took us down the rabbit hole and we

haven't been able to climb back up since then.

[OneGrassRoot]

59. Error: You can only recommend threads started in the last 24 hours

:hug:

:(

[lucca18]

60. I agree...we will be truly lost. nt