Is Obama wanting to just raise taxes on the brackets above $250,000 and NOT

[dkf]

Rescind the entire Bush tax cuts which will bring in significantly more revenue?

I'm beginning to think so.

If that is so, the revenues just won't make it. They won't be anywhere near the 20% of GDP that is the norm.

Is he going to have to propose all of it on the spending cut side? I really do not understand how the budget is supposed to work in the long run.

[Ruby the Liberal]

1. Both. The Reid/senate plan + increased revenues

[dkf]

2. So these plans replace the rescinding of the Bush tax cuts?

No one has clarified this much.

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. Those aren't even on the table

The Ryan Plan (Cut Cap & Balance), Boehner Plan (Cut Cap & Balance Lite) and Reid plan all ONLY address cuts. None of the current 3 address revenues. It is the President that keeps bringing that side of the equation up.

[dkf]

4. But if they did address revenues like how the President wants, would that supersede the rescinding

Of the Bush tax cuts? Because aren't they basically the top part of the Bush cuts? Why are we agonizing over at best one years taxes on the top 2% if so?

Or are they taxes that do not touch the brackets at all but just very very specific items like taxes on corporate jets?

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. Who knows. Neither side has proposed closing any loopholes, ending any cuts

or ANY revenue adjustments. All plans on the table are 100% cuts based.

Reid's exempts SS/Medicare and the House plans include them (the big difference between them).

Prez apparently wants revenues added to the mix, not just one set of cuts vs another.

[dkf]

6. I have to say I am happy about that.

If any of the bush tax cuts are kept, that is when I give up on my dream of fiscal sanity.

[Ruby the Liberal]

7. You misunderstand. Bush tax cuts are not on the table. They stay

in all plans being considered. NO revenues are being considered. ONLY cuts. Difference between house and senate is house cuts SS/Medicare and senate doesn't touch those.

[dkf]

8. So why is Obama talking about the rich paying their fair share?

[ChiciB1]

9. Who Knows? Sounds Good? I Dunno Know! Not On The Table! n/t

[dkf]

10. Lol!

Is Obama advocating for support for a plan that isn't being proposed?

What does he want us to do? Can it possibly be this ridiculous?

So what is this $800 billion that he and Boehner agreed on til he upped it to $1.1 trillion? WTH is he talking about?

[Ruby the Liberal]

20. He wasn't talking to us tonight.

He was talking to low-information voters who aren't following this debate.

[sad sally]

27. It's campaigning - the recycled line from 2007-2008, except for extending the gutting of SS tax

"Keep in mind that under a balanced approach, the 98% of Americans who make under $250,000 would see no tax increases at all. None. In fact, I want to extend the payroll tax cut for working families."

Campaign statements, slogans, promises sound so nice; too bad they don't really mean anything.

[FreakinDJ]

11. But but but - everyone was Bashing him for raising Taxes on Working Americans

and now you tell me it was only the Wealthy Elite

Shocked I tell you Shocked

[dkf]

14. We need to raise revenue to the Clinton rules when we could pay our bills.

[FreakinDJ]

15. Maybe we should close the Corp Tax Loopholes that Outsourse American Jobs

and then there will be more working Americans paying in revenues

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x88792

[dkf]

19. Do you know how they get the tax loophole on the overseas jobs?

That doesn't make sense on it's face. What is the mechanism that does this and is it a broader exemption or deduction that serves any purpose at all?

[FreakinDJ]

21. Sure I do - the Tax Loopholes are outlined in this link

http://www.piie.com/publications/chapters_preview/4051/06iie4051.pdf

I know it is Peterson Institute advocating a Corp Territorial Tax System, but in their arguments in favor of, they also outlined exactly how the current Corp Tax System is encouraging Corps to move jobs off shore

You can also check this Congressional Study

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/ajca2007.pdf

and this GAO report

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08950.pdf

There is actually a lot of information out there over it. In fact Congress has been discussing it since 2004, so its not like they haven't known for the last 10 years while they sat quietly watching Millions of jobs leave the country

[dkf]

22. Nice!

Ooh wonk heaven. Thanks!

[FreakinDJ]

23. Tip of the Iceberg sweety

This is the NEXT political argument coming up in Washington and I'm trying to get ahead of the curve. We already know the TeaFary PATpubliCONs will be holding American Jobs hostage for additional Corporate Tax Cuts as they advocate moving to a Territorial Tax System

When you here "Lowering Corp Tax Rates" - Think "Hoover" and the Tariff / Trade War during the Great Depression

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1569598

[dkf]

24. Yah I think I'm coming back to this later so I can give it some attention.

[FreakinDJ]

28. Here is a tasty lil Tid-bit

Corporate Inversion

A United States corporation that undergoes a corporate inversion becomes a subsidiary of a foreign corporation or parent corporation organized in a tax haven country.
A corporation owned and organized in the United States pays federal taxes on corporate global income. A foreign corporation pays federal taxes and state taxes only on U.S. income generated. As a result, a technique known as corporate inversion is commonly employed to lower U.S. tax impact. Without a corporate inversion, all sources of income are subject to taxation in the United States.

These offshore international banking subsidiaries perform functions that allow the corporations to cut their taxes. Offshore offices handle imports and exports, buying a U.S. export from a company at a sharply reduced paper cost and selling it abroad for market value at no profit. In the reverse, a company buys goods at a prearranged price and sells to the corporation at a grossly inflated one. In this way, the U.S. firm has a huge cost to deduct when it uses the item in manufacture or resells it at a loss.

[tritsofme]

12. Obama has never supported ending the entire Bush tax cuts.

He has always supported making the middle class portion permanent.

[dkf]

16. I never understood how we were supposed to make the budget work like that.

Maybe he never intended it to.

[KharmaTrain]

13. That's What He Campaigned On in '08

The numbers been moved around from $150 to $250k...keeping the lower rates in place for the "Middle" Working class. While not as much revenues if everyone's rates were to rise, it still would be a significant chunk of change...combined with closing loopholes.

The booooosh cuts will now expire at the end of next year and aren't part of this deal but surely will be in a future one....as will SS, Medicare and Medicaid benefit.

[dkf]

17. Only $700 billion of $3.8 Trillion comes from ending Bush taxes on income over $250,000/$200,000

That doesn't get us anywhere.

[KharmaTrain]

18. To Raise The Ceiling It Does...

...and that's what this game's about. I agree with you, that's not enough revenues there but plans also call for closing loopholes that double that amount...again still not enough if we're still playing with that 3.8 trillion number. Here's the rub...there are two problems...one is the short term...the debt ceiling and the fact the government IS spending more than its taking in due, in part, to the boooosh cuts (that also have a big effect on state governments as well) but it will require cuts in defense (a major reason for the debt "rising" is Obama put the booooosh wars on the books that made them show up as defecits) and possibly in social programs. Personally, I'd like to see a lot of the corporate welfare cut but that's hitting too close to the donor base.

The revenues, even if the economy somehow turns around tomorrow, won't recover for years...even with the booooosh cuts expiring. One hopes that more people will find jobs thus making more and paying more in taxes but that doesn't address the immediate situation and that's what boner and his corporate ilk are trying to take advantage of.

President Obama uses the term "shared sacrafice" and that's what will be needed if there's to be any serious debt reduction. It's the ugly side of the "booooosh hangover" that this President has been saddled with since he walked into the White House. The best solution is a Democratic House next November as well as retaining the Senate and backbenching the teabaggers.

Cheers...

[phleshdef]

25. You obviously haven't paid any attention to any of his tax policies since the 08 campaign.

He RAN ON keeping middle class tax rates locked in where they are at.

[global1]

26. What Is The Exact Date That The Bush Tax Cuts Expire?.......nt