Tonight we heard from the Center/Right and the Hard/Right.

[bvar22]

The outcome WILL be somewhere between them.

NOBODY spoke FOR the Lower 98%.

NOBODY stood up and told the plain truth,
that we are talking about Cutting YOUR Social Security & Medicare.

NOBODY told America that if you don't want your Social Security/Medicare CUT,
you had BETTER let your government KNOW Right Fucking NOW,
because THAT is what is coming.


Obama HAD the opportunity to Hang this around the Republican's Fat Little Necks like Bill Clinton did,
and TAKE it to The American People like THIS:

"The Republicans are protecting the RICH and their Bush Tax Cuts
and throwing all you Americans who depend on Social Security/Medicare to THE DOGS!!!
If you don't like that, let the Republicans hear about it LOUD & CLEAR!!!!!!"

and he choked instead.

He took 1/2 the blame,
and said that "compromise" was the answer.

That was painful to watch.
It was a fucking set up from the start.
The Orange Man reamed Obama.

BOHICA!

:cry:


Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Recced up to 0 - you are spot on.

Thanks.

[villager]

3. The unrecs tend do tend to be a sign of how close to the mark the OP is

n/t

[cui bono]

47. And a sign of how many Britney Spearses are on this site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIbb42a6K4I

[DonCoquixote]

2. no one spoke for the lower 98?

Quoted from speech"

"Most Americans, regardless of political party, don’t understand how we can ask a senior citizen to pay more for her Medicare before we ask corporate jet owners and oil companies to give up tax breaks that other companies don’t get. How can we ask a student to pay more for college before we ask hedge fund managers to stop paying taxes at a lower rate than their secretaries? How can we slash funding for education and clean energy before we ask people like me to give up tax breaks we don’t need and didn’t ask for? "

[villager]

4. so Obama's gonna fight for those tax raises now?

n/t

[nc4bo]

9. It sounds so good until you remember that these tax cuts for the wealthy were extended

for 2 more years.

Nadin always mentions to watch what they do and there's no better way to see the truth than to follow that advice.

[russspeakeasy]

40. So Obama is going to fight ???? Not familiar with that.

[boston bean]

6. because he is asking grandma and grandpa to pay more than they already have.

more than they can afford, cause anything more could mean they don't have a house to live in, food to eat, money for medicine.

[Wilms]

7. Replace the word "before" with "instead of" and we'll have something.

:shrug:

[dflprincess]

20. +10000

[Pacifist Patriot]

25. Indeed

[Armstead]

8. Eloquent words but empty because of bad context

If he gets his way, he is going to be forced to tell those people to fend for themselves. He is taking real possibilities to help them off the table by hamstringing budget cuts.

[FedUp_Queer]

54. While in the next breath, he proposed cuts to social security.

It's more talks liberal, acts conservative.

[saras]

61. He said "most Americans don't understand" then he explained to them why we have to cut the stuff...

Which amounted to "it's a compromise between the bankers and the tea party. That's why we had to keep leaving Democrats out of all the meetings."

So now they understand.

[sasha031]

5. k/r rec.

:thumbsup:

[jannyk]

10. k&r

[phleshdef]

11. I'm well in the lower 98 and I was spoken for by President Barack Obama.

This wasn't a speech meant to entertain your net-activist fetishes. This was a speech meant to engage the average person that hasn't been tuned into this fiasco for the last 5 months. And the President did speak at length about the need to tax the wealthy, it was the MAIN SUBJECT of the entire speech. It was the entire basis on which he made the case that the Republican approach is unbalanced and unfair. Obama proved once again that he is the only reasonable person in the room.

I'm in the lower 98 and I was spoken for. That much alone proves your statement to be utter bullshit.

[Armstead]

15. he was asking the upper brackets to give up a few crumbs...

while the lower 98 percent will have to sacrifice even more

[neoralme]

37. He had to do that to make his ruse appear real.

[bvar22]

50. "he was asking the upper brackets to give up a few crumbs..."

And THAT is BEFORE the Grand Compromise he was begging for.
I expect those "crumbs" to go the same way the crumb of a Public Option went.

Gawd if he didn't remind me of Rodney King last night:

<plaintive, submissive voice>
"Can't we all just get along?"

[rury]

18. AMEN phleshdef....spot on!!!!

[bvar22]

21. My "interests" are protecting Social Security & Medicare,

and Raising Taxes on the RICH.
That is the same thing that over 80% of America wants,
and THAT was NOT one of the options presented last night.
NOBODY Stood Up for THAT.

You can't tell when you're being played.
In THAT respect, the President was brilliant last night.
He has YOU and many other Democrats calling Congress today to "support" his plan to "trim" "Entitlements"
and severely "reduce spending" during a Recession & Jobs Crisis.

Do you NOT realize WHAT you are cheering for?
Boehner & Obama set up the False Dilemma last night,
and they did it well.

"False Dilemma", look it up.
Here, I'll help:

False Dilemma
"A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of false choice, black-and-white thinking or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are additional options (sometimes shades of grey between the extremes). For example, "It wasn't medicine that cured Ms. X, so it must have been a miracle."

False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")

Do you realize that there was NO option presented last night where Social security & Medicare will NOT be cut?




Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

[phleshdef]

27. False. The President endorsed a handful of options.

The President endorsed the "big deal" type plan, which is the kind of plan you speak of where they make the adjustments to social security (which I don't agree with because its completely fine and doesn't contribute to the deficit) and medicare (which to a certain extent I do agree with because its really in trouble).

He also endorsed the Reid plan which doesn't touch social security or medicare.

He also endorsed the McConnell plan which would give him the responsibility to raise the debt ceiling while the Republicans get symbolic votes that don't mean anything. This doesn't touch social security or medicare.

The reason the President spoke for me is because he endorses any approach where people act like fucking adults, check their biases in at the door and don't try to do things that will crash the entire US economy and take down half of the global economy with it.

[jeff47]

33. Unfortunately, he's not acting like an adult.

An adult bases their decision on reality. And the reality is there is no debt crisis.

We're currently borrowing at 3%. And if Congress and the president do absolutely nothing, our debt will stop going up. The wars end and the Bush tax cuts expire. There might be a SS shortfall in 40 years, but they've been warning about that for the last 40 years. The date of the shortfall just keeps moving forward.

Obama dreams of a glorious grand bargain that will make him go down in history as the guy who could transcend politics. Taking food from the hungry and medicine from the sick is not the way to glory.

[JoePhilly]

23. +1 ... "net-activist fetishes" ... great phrase.

[neoralme]

36. Baloney. It is your statement that is wrong. Obama LED with

Medicare and Social Security Cuts. He wasn't backed into them. Obama is a Corporatist. These are the folks who got him elected and are now dropping him somewhat as he may be near to drop-kicking the country.

[MissDeeds]

39. +1 n/t

[cui bono]

48. If it were meant to engage the average person who hasn't been tuned

in to this fiasco why didn't he do it at the beginning of this bs? Wouldn't he have mentioned all the debt ceiling hikes that the Repubs voted for under Bush, Bush and Reagan? Wouldn't he have called out the Repubs on what bs this manufactured non-crisis is? No, this was his piss poor excuses disguised as a speech.

And no, he is NOT reasonable. Bernie Sanders is reasonable. Obama is a corporate tool. He proved that once again. And he also proved once again that he is no leader, he is simply a moderator that has no skin in the game. He's set for life, what does he care?

In fact, he put SS and Medicare on the table as a cheap political ploy to make himself look like the adult in the room, willing to compromise so that he can get reelected. Looks like it worked on some of you. Unfortunately, even if he has no intentions of actually touching those programs the can of worms has been opened and now the Republicans can put them on the table and all they have to say is Obama himself offered them up.

Bah.

[Wait Wut]

51. +1

I'm right down towards the bottom of that 98 and I agree. I was disappointed he didn't mention me by name, though.

[FedUp_Queer]

56. Talk about "utter bullshit."

Perhaps you can remind me who proposed cuts to medicare, social security and medicaid. Wasn't that, as you say, the "only reasonable person in the room?" If that passes as reasonable, I don't want to imagine unreasonable. But, then again, he's playing chess, right?

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. K&R

[oxymoron]

13. +1000

[KoKo]

14. Isn't that the Damned Truth...Made me sick to watch both...wish I hadn't...

Too much was revealed tonight. I guess we needed to know it but I wish I didn't have to have stuff confirmed. Sometimes it's better to still have hope... But, maybe it's better to know "the reality," in the end. At least one can prepare when one knows what one is up against. That may be the hope in this...

[KoKo]

16. K&R...Good Points.....

:-(

[girl gone mad]

17. k & r

[Ruby the Liberal]

19. Reid's plan exempts SS/Med nt

[bvar22]

22. Then WHY didn't the President STAND UP for THAT last night?

He had the National Stage.
He had the opportunity to LEAD.
He could have really stuck it to Boehner & The Republicans.

It would have been very simple,
Firmly STANDING AGAIST ANY cuts to Social Security & Medicare,
and firmly & clearly standing FOR Raising Taxes on the RICH would have made him a national hero last night.
He would have gained the support of over 80% of America, including me.


.
.
.
.
He didn't.
You are being Played.
Boehner & Obama set up a False Dilemma last night,
and they were brilliant.
YOU get to choose between the Moderate RIGHT, and the FAR RIGHT.

Today, Democrats WILL be calling to support Obama's plan to "Trim Entitlements",
but not THIS Democrat.
I've played 3-Card Monty in an alley off Decatur Street.
I KNOW when I'm being played.

BOHICA



Cherish your memories, SUCKERS!
because we're TAKING everything else!
Hahahahahahaha!

[jeff47]

24. Because he dreams of a grand bargain

Obama wants to be the guy that transcends politics. That brings the two sides together. That is above the fray. He believes that a 'grand bargain' where both sides lose something will make him go down in history as a great president.

Unfortunately, he needs to learn his history better. There aren't any great presidents with grand bargains.

[woo me with science]

31. This would be a good place to repost the Hamiltonian Democrats link.

from madfloridian:


This was perhaps the most important single post on DU in recent memory, along with the Shock Doctrine threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1540315

[russspeakeasy]

46. Absolutely....

[cui bono]

49. thank you for that link. n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

26. Is that the plan that calls for a Super Congress?

[woo me with science]

29. The Reid plan would be a Trojan Horse toward more draconian cuts.

Obama knows we will not get the Reid plan. He is calling for "compromise" that includes adjustments to "entitlements." Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid are all still very much on the table.

And even if by some miracle we got the Reid plan without "compromise," that would mean trillions in cuts WITHOUT revenue, and a new "Super Congress" that will grease the skids for even more draconian cuts in the near future.

Both Obama and the Congress are ignoring the vast majority of Americans who say we need to end the damned wars and tax the rich. They are planning to cut SS, Medicare, and Social Security benefits....or at the very least to push through this "Super Congress" that will fast track such cuts and decrease our ability to defend ourselves from them in the future.

[woo me with science]

28. We are bought and paid for.

And it is only going to get worse.

[Odin2005]

30. You are 100% correct, as usual!

[nashville_brook]

32. k and r

[indepat]

34. "A fucking set up from the start" perfectly encapsulates this tawdry and depraved charade

:patriot:

[bertman]

35. REC. Just using the term "entitlements" is giving the right-wing more ammo. That is THEIR term

for anything that relates to our Social Safety Net. To a right-winger, and judging by the comments I see on this site regularly to a number of Democrats, Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid are so-called "entitlements".

President Obama has used that term since he took office. I still cannot believe that a Democratic President would use Republican/right-wing terms to describe programs that protect ALL Americans. Anyone who knows any right-wingers knows that they SPIT out the word "entitlements" because they think the people who are the recipients of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are free-loaders--except of course for them and their close relatives who receive them, and they're all hard-working, worthy Americans.

[MissDeeds]

38. Obama should have spoken for those who are not rich

and who will be hurt if cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and SS are enacted. He chose not to, and millions may be hurt by his cowardice.

K&R

[leftstreet]

41. K&R

[TBF]

42. Very few of us speak for the 98% of the country that has little wealth but does all the work-

thank you for your post and hard work.

It is disgusting, isn't it?

[Marnie]

43. I agree totally with the article.

Obama has lost. Game, Match, Set. He will retire wealthy and the rest of us will retire in/into poverty.

Thanks Oh Mighty Kahn. Who is really a whimpy can't.

[russspeakeasy]

44. Cormack McCarthy said "If you are surprised to see a hat trick

at a medicine show, you should be shot."

[ProSense]

45. It was clearly

a "Center/Right" argument:

<...>

So the debate right now isn't about whether we need to make tough choices. Democrats and Republicans agree on the amount of deficit reduction we need. The debate is about how it should be done. Most Americans, regardless of political party, don't understand how we can ask a senior citizen to pay more for her Medicare before we ask corporate jet owners and oil companies to give up tax breaks that other companies don't get. How can we ask a student to pay more for college before we ask hedge fund managers to stop paying taxes at a lower rate than their secretaries? How can we slash funding for education and clean energy before we ask people like me to give up tax breaks we don't need and didn't ask for?

That's not right. It's not fair. We all want a government that lives within its means, but there are still things we need to pay for as a country - things like new roads and bridges; weather satellites and food inspection; services to veterans and medical research.

Keep in mind that under a balanced approach, the 98% of Americans who make under $250,000 would see no tax increases at all. None. In fact, I want to extend the payroll tax cut for working families. What we're talking about under a balanced approach is asking Americans whose incomes have gone up the most over the last decade - millionaires and billionaires - to share in the sacrifice everyone else has to make. And I think these patriotic Americans are willing to pitch in. In fact, over the last few decades, they've pitched in every time we passed a bipartisan deal to reduce the deficit. The first time a deal passed, a predecessor of mine made the case for a balanced approach by saying this:

link

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

66. But the result will be well to the right of Reagan, Poppy and Nixon.

And getting closer to Dummya's dream

We all know he and his advisors choose his words well. Most of us are over it. Better words are not the change from Dummya we were hoping for.

[nineteen50]

52. "Greed is Good"

Government took on the debt created by Wall Street and the
banking industry and plan on paying for it with social
security and Medicare monies. They believe they have to keep
money in the hands of the rich so the rich can "put food
on" the rest of us.  The  kleptocracy wins again.

[Enthusiast]

53. K&R!

I wish I never would have voted for Obama.

[spooked911]

55. Let's be clear--Obama has wanted to cut SS and medicare from the beginning

so this is no huge surprise

[FedUp_Queer]

58. Sadly, I've come to that conclusion on a whole host of things.

I had an Ocham's Razor moment. Is it that he was a real liberal who just didn't or couldn't fight or is that he just believed in the constant betrayals? Health Care reform, on reflection, gave me the answer. Even a bill like that that did SOME good things, amounted to largely a give away to insurance companies wherein, the law required us to buy what they are selling, under penalty of law, without any real competition from something like, say, a public option.

[spooked911]

63. in case you need more evidence

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/07/24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-LaWg1KmEA

[No Elephants]

65. Welcome to DU and congratulations on your insights.

He is not caving on "entitlements," as he and the Republicans like to call them. He WANTED to cut them.

As for the public option, he campaigned on it, saying it was the only way to keep health insurers honest (not his words, my paraphrase). He also campaigned against the mandate, which Hillary said was necessary. Nut, after he got elected, he called the public option unimportant and "only a sliver." That's what he used his bully pulpit for, not for a fight for the public option. And, of course, he went for the mandate as well--worst of both worlds.

When Bush bailed out PHRMA with Part D, Democrats excoriated him. When Obama bailed out PHRMA, health insurers and big health care, Democrats applauded.

Bizarro world.

[democrank]

59. Obama learned well about offering up false choices from

Junior Bush, the torture-loving former president Obama called a "patriot." Obama apparently just wants to be loved....not by the peasants who sent him $10 checks and volunteered for his campaign, but by those in powerful places. It has been that way right from the start.

Here`s my take on Obama at the moment...It`s like watching a husband beat the wife he once vowed to honor while family members ignore the black and blues and talk instead of how wonderful the groom looks in a suit.

[annabanana]

60. Oh kick fuckety kick!. .. .And rec. . . . . .n/t

[OwnedByFerrets]

62. So very true

[mdmc]

64. circle d baby!

[No Elephants]

67. Another great thread, bvar. Thanks.