Default - Will it be a Disaster?

[MineralMan]

It looks more and more as though the default is coming. Neither side appears to be willing to give an inch, and I don't see a change happening before August 2. So, what is that going to mean, do you think? Will it be the disaster many are predicting? Or will it be something else? Vote here, and comment, if you like.

[Bluenorthwest]

1. Unrec for claiming that 'neither side' is willing to compromise.

That is false as can be. Only the Republicans are digging in and refusing any quarter. I do not agree that both sides have refused to compromise. One side offered the moon and the stars. The other walked away.

[MineralMan]

2. Whatever. I said that nobody APPEARS to be willing

to give an inch. I did not say they weren't compromising. Your unrec is wasted, really. I don't care about them, and polls almost never end up on the Greatest Page. I hope you took the time to vote, though. That's the point of the poll.

[Bluenorthwest]

3. Yeah, I do not agree that both sides are not giving an inch.

You:"Neither side appears to be willing to give an inch". I do not agree with you. The Republicans are unwilling to give an inch, the Democrats have already offered up miles and miles. That is how I see it, I do not see 'both sides' mucking this process, I see the Republicans refusing to give at all no matter how much is offered to them.
Describe what the Democrats are doing that makes them 'seem unwilling to give an inch'. Be specific. And I voted Other, Democrats and Republicans are not both refusing to budge, that is simply false.

[MineralMan]

6. Again, the word APPEAR is a qualifier.

I did not say what you say I said. Clearly, President Obama is trying to put forward the idea that he's taking a hard line. So are the Republicans. It's not a matter of what they're actually doing. It's the appearance that largely affects public opinion. The appearance both sides are projecting is one of a solid stance.

In any case, it is not the language I used that matters. It's the opinion of DUers I was seeking. You voted Other. That's a punt. Never mind.

[Bluenorthwest]

14. Yeah, I do not think the Democrats 'appear' unwilling to give an

inch either. So qualifier, sure, of course, but as I said, I do not agree with what you wrote. I do not agree that both sides appear to be refusing compromise. I think the Republicans appear to be and are, while the Democrats keep giving and giving.
So I do not agree that they are equal in action, nor in appearance. Clear enough for you? I do not agree that Democrats are projecting a refusal to compromise.
And to claim that language does not matter in politics and law, both of which are made entirely out of language, is an absurd statement. I voted Other, not to punt, but to say I do not agree with you that both Parties are being equally obstinate. Nor do I agree that they both 'appear to be' equally obstinate.

[MineralMan]

16. OK, you don't agree. Thanks for your comments.

:shrug:

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Well I made them becaue I do not see Democrats as equally

obstructing the governing of the nation along with the Republicans. I asked you to specifically explain how the Democrats have been or 'appeared' unwilling to 'give an inch' and you simply did not respond to the question.

[el_bryanto]

17. Jesus. If you put a blindfold on nothing will appear at all.

If you look clearly you would see that Obama and the Democrats have abandoned what few principles they were championing in order to get a deal, with on exception. They still want a deal that takes us through 2012. But they want that for electoral reasons, not budget reasons.

Bryant

[MineralMan]

21. A vast majority of the US population has just such a blindfold

on. That's why I used the word "appears." To very many people, it "appears" that neither side is willing to budge. Not everyone follows things as closely as DUers. In fact, few people do. And there's part of the problem, really.

[el_bryanto]

25. OK - does it appear to you like both sides are unwilling to give an inch?

Because that's what you say. How much more should the Democrats give up in order to have that "appearance" of being willing to compromise? Should Obama just resign right now and pass the torch to Boehner?

Bryant

[MineralMan]

31. I said exactly what I said.

I understand that there has been a great deal of compromise on Obama's part, and almost none on the Republican side. However, the appearance, along with much of the media coverage, is that there has not been compromise. That's why I used the word "appears." I'm not at all convinced that the majority of people know much about any of this beyond what shows up on the evening news, assuming they even watch that.

We discuss all of these things at length here, so it would be difficult for a DUer not to understand what is going on. Frankly, we don't have that much influence over what happens, as we've all seen so many times. So, I'm asking the questions in the poll. This side discussion is another thing.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. Can you back that statement up with any stats?

I do not agree that most Americans see an 'appearance' of both sides being equally obstinate and unwilling to 'give an inch'.
Your personal declaration about a 'vast majority' is not really enough to buy into your 'both sides are to blame' meme. How 'vast' is this majority? It 'appears' that you are just pulling that out of the air, I see nothing to support your personal view of what other people see or think. You claim it 'appears' that way to very many people. But you show no evidence but your own opinion. I do not share your opinion.
Here is a quote from a CNN poll, this week: "The country's concern over this issue is also clear from the number of Americans paying attention to the ongoing talks:
70% of people said they're following the negotiations either very closely or somewhat closely."
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2011/07/poll-sharp-partisan-divide-over-debt-ceiling-deal

[Bluenorthwest]

32. 70% of Americans say they are paying either very close attention

or somewhat close attention' to this debacle. This is a polling number, not an opinion nor a statement made without evidence. 70%.

[bananas]

13. I agree - unrec. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

20. The frame here is 'both sides are equally to blame'.

It is a recurring theme. I just do not agree. I think the Republicans look self interested and reckless, and that Democrats have been offering all manner of compromises.

[jschurchin]

4. Fuck the vig.

Default and tell all the country's holding our worthless paper, fuck you. Not only are you not getting the vig, you aren't getting the principal either.

Then stand back and watch the Bernank and his criminal cabal's heads collectively explode.

[el_bryanto]

19. And what do you tell all of the Retirement plans and Local Government monies

most of which are required to be in AAA rated securities?

"Sorry my need to enact bullshit gangster cliches is more important than your people being able to retire."

Bryant

[jschurchin]

33. So I guess being held hostage by the Fed

Wall Street, and Foreign Governments is preferable to you Bryant?
No thanks brother, I'll pass.

[RickFromMN]

5. I can't vote. The dumb ad.doubleclick.net is in the way. There is no close button.

[MineralMan]

7. DU is user supported. Donors don't see that ad.

You're welcome to DU, for sure, but you may not be able to use all of its features without becoming a donor. The user-supported concept is why DU is available. I support that. You don't. Both options are OK, but that's how DU works.

[RickFromMN]

9. Then I von't vote.

[MineralMan]

11. OK. You don't vote. Most DUers don't vote in these polls.

They really have no significance, you know. As an alternative, you can post in the thread with your opinion about the questions. I'm just telling you how DU works. Without user support, it won't exist. Have a nice day.

[RickFromMN]

12. Never mind. I figured out how to vote, in spite of the ad.

[MineralMan]

15. Good job! Thanks for voting.

[Renew Deal]

27. Try resizing your DU window.

[existentialist]

8. I voted "I have no idea. It's unpredictable." But

While I do believe that it will be unpredictable, it will not be good.

[MineralMan]

10. Thanks for voting and for explaining.

Either way, it's not a good thing. I agree.

[mmonk]

18. Yes if nothing else for the spooked investors which will cause

another round of collapsing markets at least in the beginning and all lenders jumpng their interest rates on retail loans.

[slackmaster]

23. Default is not the disaster you are looking for

[Maru Kitteh]

24. Yes, and if it happens they will try to make it Obama's fault.

[guitar man]

26. when it comes to an "economic crash"

I guess how much of a disaster it is depends on who you are....some of us really don't have very far to fall

[greytdemocrat]

29. I love political drama

Anyone who believes the US is going down the drain because of this
is a naive fool.

[MilesColtrane]

30. It will mean very real pain for everyone but the well insulated rich.