The anger, disappointment, and despair are reaching a dangerous level.

[kentuck]

Once people give up, it will be very difficult to get them back into the game. The Democratic Party, and perhaps Republicans also, are disappointing many of their supporters. They are angry.

Once they leave the process, they will not return any time soon. This is a threat to both Parties for the next election, but most specifically, the Democratic Party. People will not support leaders that refuse to fight. Even worse, leaders that surrender everything we have fought for. It is an understatement to say these voters are "disappointed". They are devastated.

Most are still holding on to hope that something will happen to validate their faith in their Party. They could break away from the herd at any time. This is a dangerous game for both Parties.

In effect, they are creating the conditions for a third party movement. If that happens, the political leaders have no one to blame but themselves.

[Romulox]

1. They say "populist" with a sneer on their lips...nt

[Raksha]

2. Agree with you...I'm really feeling overwhelmed by despair today.

[dkf]

3. How long can you fight reality?

The numbers don't work. You can say the SS trust fund has a lot of money but because the general fund generates so much less than it spends, repaying SS is just more funding we need to get from somewhere.

[kentuck]

4. Why don't we just raise the SS FICA taxes?

on working people and don't ask the wealthy or the corporations to pay anything? Would that be better?

[jtown1123]

5. Why are you always so negative about SS? The numbers do work. We are a wealthy country

we just owe the SS money to ourselves.

[Broderick]

9. That is like me borrowing from a bank account

That I open just to cover other accounts. I have every intention of paying back the bad checks I write, but the money wasn't there to begin with. But I have good intentions, meanwhile I spend away...

[socialist_n_TN]

22. Oh that's the thing. WE'RE NOT BROKE

That's a RW meme that has become ingrained into a lot of people. This country has a LOT of wealth, it's just concentrated in a VERY small percentage of the population.

[robinlynne]

26. who put their money into banks and businesses in other countries.

[jtown1123]

31. I know we're not broke. We have plenty of money to keep our people economically secure

[Dragonfli]

15. Just like with our debt to other countries, why do you think one is a must and the other an option?

They have to pay it back, they used it to make the numbers look better but what they borrowed it for is what must be cut to pay it back. Return to progressive taxation and give up this self-destructive idea of an American Empire with bases and soldiers accross the known world like some roman wet dream.

When you advocate not paying our other debts simply because it will cost money, then I will listen to you about not paying our debts to American workerrs.

[iwishiwas]

6. I have met several of them while canvassing in WI for the

recalls this last few weeks. What's the use --is the typical refrain as they shut the door or walk away. We knock on doors on from a list of addresses of past voters. Many are gone-moved away. One street I went down had several houses boarded up.

[Lorien]

11. That's what I 'm hearing from several friends, too. They don't plan on voting again

because they aren't represented. That's what the ruling elite wants, of course.

[kentuck]

14. I have a good friend who told me the same thing a couple of days ago...

And he has stood behind Obama through it all. He marched against the Vietnam War. He was in Chicago in '68. He was the chauffeur for a Senator from Delaware. But, he says he is not going to vote...

[closeupready]

18. If that's true, then what the elites fail to account for is how that game has played out historicaly

because that's what happened in the Weimar Republic and also what led to the rise of organized crime in Sicily and southern Italy. Russia and even the US here. When people distrust the government, they form structures of their own to achieve justice, and often those structures collide with legitimate institutions and processes.

But hey, what do I know. :eyes:

[robinlynne]

27. Our current elections and processses are not legitimate.

[MisterP]

20. they want you to not vote, and they want you to vote

[Hydra]

29. No it's not

The ruling elite want people to "think" they have representation and a stake in the system when they really don't.

People who don't think they have a stake in the system are VERY dangerous.

[emulatorloo]

7. Note that Reid plan does not touch the safety net. Did I miss some news?

News media has a responsibility to educate/inform the people. At this point they are not doing their job.

[bluestate10]

24. Doesn't matter. Firebaggers will just make stuff up, like their cousins,

teabaggers.

[jtown1123]

32. Not directly, but it sets up a super Congress that will...

[Speck Tater]

8. Beyond the bounds of groups like DU and FR there is always more apathy than outrage. nt

[emulatorloo]

16. There is a grain of truth to what you say.

[salinen]

10. Hope and Change

Really

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I am personally looking forwards to a third party movement

that is one way the impasse will break. The other, sadly, involves bullets.

[county worker]

13. How soon in the future will our representatives and Obama stop trying to work with a

recalcitrant repub party?

We are our own best enemies. We all know that the right wants to destroy the middle class and all domestic programs so why do we act like that will change any time soon?

I was disappointed that Obama continued to talk about an agreement being reached yesterday. When will he just say, fuck it, I'm through trying that tactic and turn to his base and get some progressive things done?

I'm so turned off by all of this bull shit that I don't watch cable anymore. I work on some project or turn on a movie now instead of Maddow et.al.

[robinlynne]

28. Obama. never. That is what he does.

[Vattel]

17. Maybe there should be four parties

The Teabag Party for the truly insane, the Republicans to represent the interests of the corporations and MIC, the Democrats to represent the interests of the corporations and the MIC, but not quite as much, and a progressive party that recognizes that the use of military force is rarely a cost-effective way to improve the world, that Americans have been far too quick to kill innocent bystanders in war, that the bill of rights should be respected, that the belief that gays should not marry is bigotry plain-and-simple, that the president should not be above the law even in matters of national security, that we can win more friends internationally through economic aid than military aid, that improving the lot of the worst-off Americans should be government's top priority, that those who illegally cross our borders to meet their own needs and the needs of their loved ones do not deserve to be punished, etc.

[socialist_n_TN]

23. This is what I've thought for a while.......

Unfortunately, somebody has to go first. But if the Tbaggers split from the country club Republicans, a progressive workers party would be on the books so fast your head would swim. Then the Dems could be DLC all they want w/o all of us pesky lefties.

But until the Tbaggers split, the threat of "President Bachmann", etc. will inhibit the formation of a progressive workers party.

That said, I wish the AFL-CIO would get the prep work done for it. Even if they didn't run candidates (or at least didn't run candidates everywhere), just the THREAT of a workers party would scare Dems left.

[swilton]

19. Let the third parties begin

It's no great loss - it's even liberating...2012 is around the corner and I hope a lot of independents run - Bernie Sanders independent campaign for Congress can be a model.

[keith0]

21. I believe they are drunk with power, and as they say, Pride goeth before destruction

[Bryn]

25. A people that values ....

"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both" ~ D. Eisenhower

[Armstead]

30. Yes the ultimate victor will be apathy and cynicism

[postatomic]

33. This hurts the Democratic Party more

Many who vote Republican are 'single issue' voters. Guns. Abortion. Anything that the Republican Party can use to get people to vote.

But, I agree. The prevailing wind is one of "I don't give a fuck anymore". If this country didn't have so many other issues that need immediate resolve I would welcome a shake up in our current political climate.