If (and a big IF), the GOP does not cooperate in raising the debt ceiling..and all measures fails,

[Sheepshank]

they will own this. It will NOT play into Obama's demise, it will bolster his re-election.

So, during the next year and a half and the likley additional 4 years of Obama as President, the debt ceiling will be raised. The GOP will look like petulant, loser, moranic fools, and they will likely never dare such a stunt again....not while Obama is President anyway. My silver lining in all this madnesss.

[gateley]

1. From your keyboard to... nt

[nebenaube]

2. eh, pass that over here man! n/t

[Skip_In_Boulder]

3. I have been trying to tell people here this for some time

but no one seems to get it. But from where I sit President Obama has been waltzing the Republicans right into the trick bag for the last couple of weeks.

[Sheepshank]

5. Yup....'tis a fine sight to see

and watching Obama playing this out is only part of that fun. Seeing the GOP writhing in impotent rage over finding this out a tad too late is the other half of the fun.

[MadMaddie]

6. I agree with you

The key is the Teabaggers who most of them have really never worked in government and understood the complicated environment believe that letting if fail is okay.

Wall Street is going to lose billions if not trillions
The World market is going down
China..who knows what they are going to do
FAA has cut projects and furloughed workers because of a similar Repug action...

Boehner is in over his head and there is no way he can recover...

This should have been a one sentence no brainer. If the Repugs can't do this how can they deal with more complicated issues...?

[Skip_In_Boulder]

7. how can they deal with more complicated issues..

Well they can't. These people have no clue how to govern and they are playing a very dangerous game here which requires an aggressive response. We will just have to see how this plays out but from where we are right now I am much more impressed with President Obama's handling of this than I have been with his earlier dealings with the Republicans.

[MadMaddie]

9. Honestly I think he has allowed them to hang the albatross

around their neck....they have proven they only care about the top 2%. Scott Walker, The New Jersey Gov, Florida Gov, Kasik...they screwed the pooch....the Koch Brothers got outed and their entire plan is out for the world to see....oh and don't forget Murdoch...if he goes down their mouthpiece is gone.....

I have my fingers crossed.

[Skip_In_Boulder]

10. That's how I am seeing it as well. n/t

[FreakinDJ]

4. The "debt" clause of the 14th was written specifically for Jackasses like these

I know - every one has ruled it out

but it was specifically written to prevent Southern States from trying to default on Civil War Debt

If that doesn't fit the TeaFarty to a tee I don't know what does

[Motown_Johnny]

11. ot everyone

Nothing can get through The House


Nothing


Therefore there can be no deal and the 14th will need to be invoked

[MadMaddie]

13. With nothing getting through the House except extreme bills

that get shut down in the Senate...Boehner will be the BIGGEST failure of a House Speaker. No jobs, no Debt Increase, only bills that appease the Teabaggers....

[FreakinDJ]

15. Worked out so will for the House Leader last time too

[renegade2011]

14. I don't think anybody has "ruled it out"

If you ask me, Obama is just putting on a show here:

Unfortunately, much as some on this board and elsewhere don't like to admit it, Obama (and the Democrats) have no choice but to play to a bigger audience than just self-described "Progressives". Sadly enough, there *is* a sizable element of the populace stupid enough to go against tehir own best interests, by supporting reductions in domestic spending. It's abysmally stupid, yes, but it's what will "Play in Peoria", as they say.
What this means, is that if DEMOCRATS don't attempt to placate that -- no matter how stupid and unfounded it may be -- somebody ELSE (the Teabaggers and their ReTHUGlican allies) WILL.
Let's observe some past history for a moment, here:

1. Teabaggers come up with something abominably stupid (the "Birther" idiocy, the "Death Panels" lie, the New Red Scare over "socialism", etc.) They immediately start training their idiotic minions to regurgitate the new talking-points/slogans on command.
2. Obama let's this play out for a while, failing to even acknowledge that it's happening. (This isn't him "ignoring" it, so much as giving the impression that he can't be bothered with that kind of stupidity).
3. Republicans/Tea-baggers misunderstand this as "weakness" on Obama's part, and keep ratcheting up the FUD (Fear, uncertainty,and doubt) among their ever-shrinking core demographic of older White males (who are most likely the same guys who were involved in the John Birch society, the Militia movement in the 1990s, etc, remember). It is VERY critical that this be allowed to boil up to JUST the right level of crazy, before:

4. He then does his "I'm a reasonable adult who is all about Bipartisanship and compromise" shtick. This makes HIM look like a reasonable person, and -- more importantly -- makes the opponents look like the psychopathic cretins they really are.

At this point, Obama has basically offered them damn near everything, and Bo(eh)ner is STILL trapped by the recalcitrant and psychopathology of the Teabagger clown-car caucus. Reid would *like* to do something, but there's a good chance his deal will fail, too.

If Obama is the politically-savvy person I think he is, he will simply wait until both "deals" (Faustian bargains?) have conclusively died, and then step in, and save the US (and world) economy -- ensuring his re-election in the bargain.

Remember, folks: the "business" class is NOT happy with how the Teabaggers are handling this. Moreover, a significant number of them stand to lose BIG, if the United States were to default (which damages their investment portfolio, since a lot of them are holding the "debt" we're all whining about).
(Funny how nobody whines about the "debt crisis" inherent in issuance of corporate stock, hmm?)

Anybody remember the Chamber of commerce guy who "joked" about stopping the Teabaggers? Trust me: the Plutocrats aren't stupid enough to think that (say) President Bachmann would be anywhere near viable even as a puppet: The Teabaggers (and the demographic they represent) is simply too delusional to be controllable.

It may get to the point where Obama simply has "no choice" (tee hee). What's that you say? Obama comes out of that looking like a Bush-style "decider" president? Newsflash: the Teabagger demographic already hates his "Kenyan Usurper" ass, and most of them STILL don't believe his birth certificate is legit. Plus, if they DO try to impeach him over it (like some of them have been threatening to do), that simply serves as publicity for just how psychopathic the "Right" actually is.
Remember, folks: this wouldn't be Clinton being impeached for getting a BJ (with the impeachment done under a wafer-thin cover story about "perjury" or suchlike). This would be a gaggle of OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE, Right-wingers representing an OVERTLY RACIST demographic, impeaching the first Black president of the United States FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT THE CONSTITUTION REQUIRES THAT THE PRESIDENT DO, IN JUST THIS SITUATION.

You think Non-whites hate the Teabaggers NOW?

And rest assured: if Obama does end up going that route, the more sane "pro-business" folks will back his play.

Most probable end result: hat-tip to "fiscal responsibility" nonsense, but no REALLY SUBSTANTIVE changes to what Howard Zinn would have described as "The Consensus".

Just a theory.

[Parker CA]

8. I'm skeptical of that hypothesis. The American public has the memory of a gnat, and as soon as a few

months pass, if economic conditions continue to decline, Obama will take heavy heat for those conditions. It may be a short-term win for Obama in the sense that the GOP may temporarily feel some increased heat on the issue, but they are masters of deflection, and when it comes down to it, either deal currently on the table is not a win no matter how hard it's spun.

[renegade2011]

17. They are "masters" of pandering

to a steadily-shrinking (and increasingly endangered) demographic which is on the losing end of history, whether they like to admit that fact or not:

Two words: DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT
The "American People" don't have the memory of a gnat. They know EXACTLY what GOP policies have always been about. Remember, the last thirty years the GOP has been pandering to the demographics picked up during Nixon's "Southern Strategy": Racist Whites, and wannabe theocrats.
I say "pandering" to them, because ultimately they're irrelevant. Whether DADT or Gay marriage ever got repealed or not, the GOP has *serious problems* brewing in the extremely near future, unless they can actually manage to appeal to something OTHER than the stereotypical "Teabagger" demographic:

1. The rise of openly gay organizations (Log Cabin and GOProud, for example) has GOT to be seriously pissing the theocratic wing of the GOP off, at this point, whether they nominally agree on marginal tax rates for the top 2%.

2. The anti-"immigration" (translation: anti-Hispanic) bullshit may work on Teabaggers (because they were xenophobic racist assholes already), but it's not going to do ANYTHING to endear the GOP to Hispanic folks (who are inexorably becoming an ever-larger segment of the population). GOP "strategists" are desperately scrambling around to try to figure out how to "rebrand" a version of Right-wing Conservatism that DOESN'T stink of Teabagger idiocy. The only leverage they really have with Hispanics, is the Catholic thing, but you have to remember that Roman Catholics (or "papists" as they were often called) were pretty high on the enemy lists of organizations like the KKK -- from whom the initial "Dixiecrat" proto-Teabaggers derive). So it's going to be REALLY hard for the GOP (or any "Rightist" organization) to successfully re-brand itself to be at all palatable to non-Teabaggers.

3. The "Birther" fiasco (and Teabagger signs depicting Obama with a bone through his nose etc.) have NOT endeared "the Right" to Blacks -- or to Non-racist Whites, for that matter. Blacks who are dumb enough to identify as "republican" account for less than 8 percent in most polls, and the vast majority of Blacks think they are stupid traitors to the Black community.

Unless Right-wingers can (somehow) manage to re-brand themselves as something other than Wealthy White racists/Religious crazies/Gun fetishists etc. -- they're screwed big-time, within a very few years.

[Fool Count]

12. Bolster? How? By destroying what's left of US economy

and making the electorate poorer and angrier? Yeah, sure, that's the ticket to re-election. What a brilliant plan.

[Sheepshank]

16. sorry, you lost me at your name...pretty much says it all.

[Fool Count]

18. A good one. Even better than your logically brilliant

original post. I surrender in awe of your superior intellect.

[Sheepshank]

19. That you can't figure out how this plays 'for' Obama tells me all I need to know about your logic.

thanks for playing.

[Fool Count]

21. No, thank you. For opening a window into warped brains of

some american voters for me. That bizarre echo-chamber of incoherent thoughts where
up is down, bad is good and nonsense is "logic". Gives a better perspective at why
this country is so screwed up.

[MadinMo]

20. Verrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy interrrrrresting..........

nt