The only debt ceiling measure that can pass in the House will be through

[MineralMan]

a coalition of Republicans and Democrats who value getting the problem solved more than making political hay. Whether that can happen before the deadline remains to be seen. Right now, both parties are voting en bloc on every issue around this. Barring a coalition of members from both parties, nothing can happen. I know that's anathema here, but that's what it's going to take to get any solution through the House. The Senate may end up needing something similar.

Whatever solution finally passes will be one neither the right or the left likes. That's a given. It's all a matter of whether not defaulting on our responsibilities is of a high enough value to get support from both camps in quantities large enough to be passed. That remains uncertain, I think.

Sometimes, in this divided country, solutions suck. Thus has it always been. Thus will it always be.

The only thing I can see passing in time is a bare bill that only raises the debt ceiling, without any other stuff tied to it. I'm surprised that hasn't been introduced by someone in an attempt to build the necessary coalition. I expect it will be, but only as a last-ditch measure.

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. There will be screaming

Of that, there can be no doubt.

[MineralMan]

2. The screaming is already ongoing.

That won't change. However, given the current makeup of Congress, that's the only way this gets solved. I don't like it, but I recognize that it's the only solution.

We can change that in 2012, if we have the will to do so. If we do not have that will, welcome to the next four years. They'll be just like this year.

I'm extremely frustrated right now.

[Armstead]

3. I think, since they can't solve the "big picture" issues under these conditions....

They ought to just do the right thing, raise the damn ceiling, and then argue about the rest after that.

[MineralMan]

4. I don't see any alternative, except failure and default.

Some people on both sides are OK with defaulting. I think it would be a disaster. Fix the debt ceiling then argue about the rest. That's my suggestion, and I think it's the only thing that can work right now.

[C_U_L8R]

5. agree

stop the bullshit and bring on the clean bill

[deacon]

8. If that happens the GOP will go down in flames. n/t

[vi5]

6. Wasn't that what McConnell was proposing?

I know that's not the house, but I still can't wrap my head around why Reid and Obama didn't take that and run with it and push harder for the House to do the same thing.

[MineralMan]

7. Sort of, but not exactly.

The problem is that the leaders in both chambers are unwilling at this point to give up their attempts to construct a do-it-all bill. The time is now too short to make that work, I think. Boehner's bill isn't going to get through the Senate, and Obama has promised to veto it, even it if did. The teabaggers don't like it anyhow, so they're fighting it. Reid's bill has no chance in the House at this point, and it sucks in many ways, anyhow, so it's not popular with the left.

Both sides are going to push this until the very last possible moment. I hope there's a clean debt ceiling bill being prepared, and I imagine there is. I expect that, at the very last minute, they'll introduce and pass that to avoid the default. In the meantime, the FUD and posturing continues. Our adversary-style system is not displaying itself very well right now. Congress looks like a pack of quarreling children. Everyone's becoming very disenchanted with the process.

Again, 2012 can solve this, but we're going to have to work together as Democrats to achieve that solution. I'm getting less and less confident that we'll be able to do that. If we fail, we're in for years of similar crap from a dysfunctional Congress.

[vi5]

9. Is that even possible for 2012?

I think you and I probably disagree on what we mean by "working together as Democrats" and that's fine as I think you're a very respectful poster even when we disagree on approach or tactics.

But even if we were all able to say "O.K. let's do this!!!" and put all difference aside.....is the math even there for us to get enough Democrats in either the House or the senate to make any kind of difference? Are there that many open seats? And even some of the open seats are we just looking at more Blue Dogs?

I've just honestly seen no assesement of 2012 by which Democrats can even come close to picking up enough seats in either chamber to change anything. At best even if we won everything that was even remotely possible it would still put us only at the margins we had between 2008 and 2010. And pretty much all that does is put the conservadems back in the drivers seat of the Senate which is only marginally better than what we have now.

[MineralMan]

11. Yes, it's possible.

All 435 House seats will be up. It's not a matter of just what seats are open. We have time for primaries and a long time before November of 2012. If we take advantage of the almost universal frustration with Congress, we should be able to recapture control of the House. The Senate's more problematic, since only a third of the seats there will be up for election. Still, the same thing applies.

I don't think we can go with conventional wisdom in 2012 and pass on seats that are questionable. I think we need to fight for every seat in the House and every seat that's up in the Senate. Incumbency isn't going to be a strong campaign plus in 2012. I think we should consider every seat to be open.

Blue Dogs? The teabaggers won those seats. I'll take a Blue Dog who votes with the Democratic Caucus every time over any teabagger. Yes, there will be Blue Dogs if we manage to retake control of the House. But, if populist liberals are the nominees in those districts, I think we can do better than that, at least in some districts.

I'm not an idealist when it comes to electing people to Congress. Each district and state is its own thing. Nothing we can do about that. It's just that what happened in 2010 fucked things up beyond my wildest nightmares. We can do something about that. What that something is is to work in your own district and state and let the rest of the districts and states deal with their own situations. House seats are local everywhere. Their all up for grabs at every election. But it's going to be the people who live in those districts who will know how far they can push the envelope. People from outside the district do not know, and there's plenty to do in everyone's own district, or in a nearby district.

For example, my Congressional district MN CD-4 is a solid district for its current representative, Betty McCollum. She's great. While I'll be talking her up, I'm going to spend a lot of energy in CD-6, where Michele Bachmann is from. Redistricting will make some changes there. A terrific candidate has a good chance, expecially if Bachmann chooses to do something else.

Local action. Focused action. Smart candidate choices, fine-tuned for each district. That's how we do it. We simply have to stop bickering among ourselves and do what can work in each district and state. This is not a short-term project. If we treat it as such and are too narrow in our willingness to support candidates, we're going to lose the long race. That I can guarantee.

[TahitiNut]

10. "Jobs" are their paramount concern.

Sadly, it's their own jobs ... and NOT those of anyone else. :shrug:

[MineralMan]

12. Too true. and too sad.

[LonePirate]

13. Boehner needs to find 30 Rethugs who will vote with Pelosi's 190 Ds to pass Reid's bill

The big question is are there 30 veteran Rethugs who want to pass a bill instead of forcing a default like the 80-90 Tea Party terrorists.

[MineralMan]

14. Boehner has no motivation to do so.

Instead, I think some Democrats need to reach out to those Republicans and convince them. The risk to many of the Republicans of losing their seat in 2012 should be ample motivation. And there is no doubt that the electorate is pissed off right now. There have to be some really worried Republicans in the House. They know their districts. Boehner's fighting for his life right now. The teabaggers hate him, and his own seat may well be at risk in 2012 if he fails. I don't think he'll let himself be seen as a mediator in this.

[Poll_Blind]

15. That's interesting- are those really the figures? Just 30 R's needed along with the Dems to get...

...this through the House?

PB