Only remaining question: how huge will the Republican victory be?

[MannyGoldstein]

The Republicans have gotten at least almost everything they've asked for in this fully-fake crisis. Savage spending cuts to fuck up the 99%, with zero sacrifice for the 1%. The only suspense is over some details around the decimation, but 80% has already been agreed to by the "Democrats".

Will the Republicans get 80% or 100%? That's the drama.

Un-fucking-believable.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Rec and good question...

[Qutzupalotl]

3. Unrec because NOBODY's gotten ANYTHING yet.

No deal looks like it will pass right now, so anything could happen.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. So are you thinking this is chess?

If so, I hope you're right, and we win. But at this point...

[woo me with science]

4. Wall Street and the banks have already won.

Whether entitlement cuts are passed this time or not, Obama validated and cemented Republican talking points about this economy, offered up Social Security and Medicare on a platter, poisoned the message and principles of the Democratic Party, and ensured that we will be fighting off more assaults like this for years to come.

[TheKentuckian]

17. There it is.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. But..but..he HAD to give the Republicans what they wanted...poor fellow.

He's only the president...it's not like he can veto bad legislation or anything like that. Oh, wait...

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[EFerrari]

6. How can we possibly compete with this kind of support and organization?

[MannyGoldstein]

9. That's a fantastic pic!

Thanks.

[dionysus]

7. lol. bless you.

:spray:

[MannyGoldstein]

10. 14 unrecs so far, by my count

Yikes!

[Jackpine Radical]

11. My prediction is for about 90%.

Obama will be left a few face-saving scraps, and Wall Street will whip the Republicans & Turd Way crowd into line.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. That's about 15% less than my guess nt

[Hydra]

15. I wish it were that good

I'm sure what passes will have no revenue increases, and will be devastating austerity-type cuts.

The excuse will be "We didn't have a choice."

Remember how often Bush got away with "Stupidity"? This feels like Deja Moo.

[emulatorloo]

14. No body has gotten anything. Looks to me like clean bill or 14 th amendment is

How this will end up.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

16. It will be a "Pyrrhic Victory" for the Repubs (at best-for them)

They have provided us with LOTS of ammunition for next year's election, their polling sucks, and this might well end up being their Waterloo, particularly if they want to try doing this again in another six months. The only plan that stands a realistic chance that will likely be able to pass will be Reid's plan (or something similar)- the majority of savings of which would come from shutting down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there would be NO entitlement cuts, and the debt ceiling would be raised through next year's election. Additionally, the cuts are spread out over the next 10 years and can be reversed by future Congresses. Assuming that nobody folds on the Bush Tax Cuts that expire at the end of 2012, that would also amount to increased revenue starting in 2013. The Repubs aren't going to get out of this looking good at all IMHO.

[jeff47]

18. If Democrats vote for the plan and Obama signs it, then we can't run on it.

One of the points of this crisis is to stop Democrats from running ads about the Ryan budget.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

19. Neither plan (as far as I know) touch entitlements

nor do they "adopt" the Ryan Budget, so the Dems could conceivably approve either plan and still run on Ryancare next year. The main sticking point in both of the budget plans as far as I can tell is when we're going to have to be going through another one of these fights and, given how the Republicans have taken what was previously a routine matter and taken the government hostage with the threat of a default, I hope that we don't have to go through this again sometime next year (or this year again) and we'll have an opportunity next year to elect a better Congress that doesn't pull shenanigans like this. :shrug:

[jeff47]

20. Both the Reid and Boehner plans cut entitlement spending.

Reid's plan doesn't cut as deeply.

The Republicans lost NY-26 because of the overwhelming vote in the House for the Ryan budget. A major reason for the phony crisis is to force Democrats to also vote to cut Medicare and Social Security so that the Republican's vote for the Ryan budget won't come back to bite them in 2012.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. What cuts to entitlements are included in the plans?

benefit cuts? Waste, fraud, and abuse cuts? :shrug:

[Broderick]

21. FOR YEARS

Every bill seems to start from a Republican perspective. We get rhetoric. We get tough talk. But, when you boil things down, everything seems to begin and end from a Republican standpoint. Why are we debating a Republican plan, two if you count Cut Cap and Balance? Why are we voting on a Democratic plan, even if it fails, but it gives us a starting point?


Does anyone understand what I am saying?


Where is the Baseline plan that comes from a Democratic standpoint.

I remember in debate class and forensics debate; get someone playing defense you win.


Frustrated.

[fivepennies]

22. Rank and file republicans

will lose their shirts just like the rest of us. They just don't know it yet.

[kath]

24. Thanks for putting "Democrats" in quotations - that really should be done every time they are

mentioned - this party would be utterly unrecognizable to my union-organizer grandfathers, who worked their asses off for workers' rights in the '30s and 40's.
When my Irish Catholic dad was growing up, a picture of the Sacred Heart of Jesus hung on one wall of the living room, and a picture of FDR on another. Both grandpas (and FDR) spin in their graves.

This whole debacle really is un-fucking-believable.