It's all about Class

[Solomon]

There's an entrenched permanent aristocracy nesting in America. Something the so-called founding fathers took great pains to ensure would not happen.

Seems to me lately, all the disputes about budget ceilings, raising taxes, cutting "entitlements" is really about class delineation, something that the republicans and teabaggers would do anything to avoid.

When the democrats keep saying raise taxes for the rich, don't cut benefits for the poor, they are acknowledging the fact that there's a permanent out of control aristocracy bleeding America. They are trying to draw lines - raise taxes if you make over ____, etc. Recognizing class distinctions.

The last thing that the republicans and the aristocracy wants, is recognition of class lines. They like for us to keep pretending that we are all in this together, what's bad for them is bad for us, etc. etc. In fact if you listen to them they are saying, what's bad for them is actually worse for us.

I have mixed feelings about the class thing. Ideally we are supposed to be a classless society. We're not supposed to have inherited earls, and dukes, and so on. On the other hand, if you refuse to recognize the widening gap by drawing lines, how can you ensure getting to this ideal of a classless society? :shrug:

[fasttense]

1. We need to clean out their nest to ensure they don't reproduce. n/t

[Armstead]

2. I agree -- You have to start fixing a problem by admitting it exists

What the GOP calls "class war" is actually the goal of social and economic justice.

[11 Bravo]

3. And Republicans have none.

[ljm2002]

4. And they use framing very well to mask the class issue...

...for example, they use the expression "Raising taxes on Americans" every time the tax issue comes up. Thereby masking the issue, acting as if there are proposals for large tax increases for ALL Americans, whereas the reality is we are talking about raising taxes on the rich and the super-rich. But the Republicans are masterful at framing, as we know and moan about on this board frequently. Their phrasing gets the attention of the low information votesr (and I use this term without contempt, most people are not political junkies like us here, and don't have time to seek in depth political information and are fed lies all day by the media) -- and they think "Yeah, I don't want my taxes raised!". Yet poll after poll shows that a majority of Americans, including Republicans, would favor raising taxes on the rich.

The Republicans also use the expressions "The American people want" and "The American people don't want" to preface their statements and proposals, implying that they are championing what The People want over the Big Bad Government. Again, this is, unfortunately, an effective ploy.

They are very good at this. We are not. I wish I understood why we have an aversion to sound bites -- not saying we should mislead with them, but we should use them whenever possible to our own advantage.

Of course then there is the issue that "our side" has adopted the terms "austerity" (thanks, Nancy Pelosi) and "entitlement reforms" (thanks Obama and most of the Democrats in Congress) as though those are desirable and inevitable. I can't help but believe at this point that our politicians, Democrats and Republicans alike, with but a few exceptions, serve the interests of the wealthy elites, period, end of sentence.

[Incitatus]

6. "low information voters" good term and good point

That's why the RW lies repeated again and again work so well.

[Hydra]

5. The fact of the matter is

Nobody wants a "classless" society. What everyone wants is to be at the top and above the law.

That's ultimately why we're here. Because we don't see the value of cooperation instead of competition, we're going to destroy most of our species to see who is really the "top dog."

[bvar22]

7. You may speak for you and yours,

but that disease does not affect everybody.

[whathehell]

8. Exactly....I think "classless" is too much to hope for...Social and economic mobility, of the sort

we saw a lot of post WWII via FDR's New Deal

would be something to strive for, IMO.

[Hydra]

9. I don't even speak for myself

But nearly everyone I've talked to yearns to be in the 1%. Some think they'll use the power for good, others simply want not to work and pursue their vices.

It makes me sad because I believe in rule of law and the idea that we can all reach a better place together. Apparently that's just asking too much.

[swilton]

10. Saddly,

very few Democrats (Sanders, Kucinich, independent Bernie Sanders, and a few others excluded) are arguing to raise taxes on the rich.... we just saw President Obama in Dec 2010 extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans rather than let them expire.

Thus the dichotomy of your construction Republicans = aristocracy; Democrats = champions of the poor is false. It's more like aristocracy = Republicans/Democrats less a few leaders and champions