As a former Applebee's manager...

[Maine-ah]

I would like to say I dealt with more adults that acted like brats, than children.

and another point, because I feel like both of these deserve their own thread....

tell me to bring my kid to McDonald's or places like Applebees...where the food is crap and unhealthy? I don't think so. Especially after reading threads here where many agree that nobody should eat at either of those places.

So which is it, DU? You don't think I should bring my kid to a restaurant that is slightly upscale, with a healthier menu, nor do you want me to feed my kid crap from McDonald's.

DU leaves a parent confused. I guess we should just stay home. Perhaps all parents should just stay at home with their kids, not give a penny to any restaurant, or their workers. :rant:

[Drale]

1. I agree 100% the people who are against children in restaurants

make me sick, and the fact that they feel this way just shows how much age discrimination there is in this country whether its of the old or the young.

[Bandit]

7. It isn't so much children per say it is children that misbehave

I have zero problem with well behaved children. NONE, but those children that don't behave and create a ruckus and the parents just sit there oblivious to it all, then I say ban them.....

[seabeyond]

10. i have zero problem with adults that behave . NONE. but those adults that dont behave....

well, i see it as part of life. sometimes we are inconvenienced by others rudeness or ugliness and i get on with life. why should it interfer with my good time.

[Drale]

68. Well ok but now you are saying

that because some children are misbehaved, we should ban all children from different places. Its just wrong, especially because while they may be annoying, they are not hurting anyone and the restaurants always have the ability to ask people with disruptive children to leave.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

169. Good luck with that

Owners never want to cause a scene asking a family to leave, and there's always some bored asshole reporter nowadays willing to write a story about how awful the local greasy spoon was for tossing out a woman and her kids who were dumping the blue plate special all over their fellow diners.

[ProfessorGAC]

81. It's The Parents You Dislike

I agree. The kids are just kids. The people who need to be kicked out are the parents. Make them sit in the car while the kids eat.
GAC

[Selatius]

165. That's the parents' fault, not the children. There are PLENTY of CRAPPY parents in the US.

My mother wouldn't let me eat out until I was almost seven because she made it a point to try to impress good behavior in me. The way I acted out in public was a reflection of how my mother raised me. If I acted very poorly, of course it would all fall back upon her.

[awoke_in_2003]

60. some of us...

are sick of parents who cannot control their animals in public.

[seabeyond]

62. animals? really? here is another example of a fine progressive

showing us how to discuss a group of people.

animals.

[awoke_in_2003]

75. technically we are all animals...

some of us just don't act like it.

[seabeyond]

86. i got you point. being ugly about children with really, no reason.

i got it.

[awoke_in_2003]

92. yeah, I was probably being too snarky...

I do wish, however, that there were restaurants that would get rid of people, regardless of age, who display bad manners. Cell phone talkers- out the door (and a hint to some of the worst one- you don't have to yell into modern phones). Overly loud talking- out the door. Our modern society seems to forget manners, and that other people are just trying to have a nice meal. I shouldn't just single out rowdy kids. Truthfully, I would probably take the rowdy kid over the loud cell phone talking adult.

[seabeyond]

95. ya. being a happy kinda gal, sometimes my laugh can be a tad loud.

the thing? i am just not bothered with people.

i think we are an intolerant society today, a world my kids are going to get and it kinda makes me sad

[cwydro]

131. Actually my dog is well behaved.

She has accompanied me to many restaurants in the town where I used to live (very animal friendly).

She never screams or fusses or throws food, nor does she run around loose. ;-)

[anneboleyn]

163. At the restaurant where I worked, there were service animals, and they were great.

This was a restaurant in California.

The service animals (usually golden retrievers) always waited patiently and quietly under the table while their owners ate, and they never made noise, threw around menus, loudly complained, demanded endless coffee refills, and/or refused to leave a tip. Which is more than can be said for many of the adults who demanded special service, pouted the entire time, then refused to leave tips.

[cwydro]

172. Lol! I am HER service animal I think.

But you're right - service animals are always well behaved.

Mine is just a mutt and a pet, but good as gold.

[tabbycat31]

147. like when people bring their dogs to places where dogs should not be

I'll never forget when I was at Kohl's and a dog took a dump in the middle of the domestics dept. This was a customer's small dog that she carried with her in a purse (think Paris Hilton type).

[prayin4rain]

173. NOBODY can "CONTROL" at 2 or 3 year old every second, they CANNOT control themselves yet n/t

.... and there is nothing anybody can do about that. They, nor their parents are able to contain and manage the big emotions they have at that age. It is not possible. They are allowed to go out in the world anyway and practice being in public and practice controlling their emotions so they don't grow into sniveling, miserable whiners who can't stand the slightest bit a frustration without bitching about how everyone else should be handling their lives (and their children) differently.

[Whisp]

160. if there was a geezer screaming his fucking lungs out...

I'd not be having a nice meal with that either. Its not friggen age discrimination for fucks sake.
It's just common sense.

Can I bring my braying fucking donkey to dinner and have the other patrons just have to accept that shit?

[ItNerd4life]

2. But that's DU, for some emotions/intent are more important

than facts or the consequences.

You have to weed out the naysayers and listen mostly to people with common sense.

[elleng]

3. As I've always said, use your best judgment.

Daughters are 23 + 26, took them everywhere, didn't spend much time at McD's but certainly went there occasionally, as well as medium and 'upscale,' and traveled with them to Europe several times, from ages of 3 > 20.

It takes a village, and we are it.


:hi:

[EFerrari]

28. I had one that could go anywhere from his debut, lol, and

one that was colicky, then ADD and couldn't sit long enough to eat until he was ten or so. Luckily, we were too poor to eat out much until them. :P

[seabeyond]

4. as a waitress for years, upscale and family oriented restaurant. i remember the bitching adults

never really had any issue with kids. a little kindness to kids got me huge tips and a lot of cooperation from the parents.

[Maine-ah]

15. absolutely!

and sometimes just a couple of words to kids who are being a bit unruly scares them back to their seats ;)

But I have always had way more adult assholes, than "bratty" children.

[uppityperson]

5. k&r

[Shagbark Hickory]

6. Right on.

nm

[lapislzi]

8. We only want the impossible:

Well-socialized children with good manners who don't disturb other diners. You'll never achieve that across the board. There will always be brats; there will always be bad parents; there will always be the intolerant.

Until we reach that millennium, the intolerant should eat in child-free establishments, and families with children should seek a family-friendly environment. Maybe that's a realizable goal.

[Maine-ah]

9. yep...let the unrecs begin.

I don't care about rec/unrec...it's not the reason why I post here, or on this subject.

[madinmaryland]

13. Un-reccing (this post) for whining about the rec/unrec feature.

[Maine-ah]

16. no skin off my nose, Mad

[madinmaryland]

34. Uhh. It is skin off of my nose...

I spent the last week on the beach in Florida, and my nose is really peeling!!

Flakes of dead skin everywhere!

[Maine-ah]

37. why did you go to florida?

could have gotten the same weather in Maine :hi:

[madinmaryland]

42. in-laws are down there.

They have an open villa that was free for us. A mile's drive to the beach. As a result, it is a lot cheaper than going to Ocean City which is only three hours away from us.

gonna be 100 here in MD tomorrow!

[Maine-ah]

73. sweet! free is good :)

[madinmaryland]

11. I have no problem with a restaurant that bases their operation on the age of their clientele.

I have the choice as to whether I patronize that restaurant. There are lots of places that gear their services to adults and don't see why restaurants should not have that option, also.

The last time I checked, business owners have the right to not allow children under the age of 18 into their establishments. Call it what you want, it is the prerogative of the owner, and in many cases it is the law.

[Maine-ah]

33. ok, well

how about a restaurant that doesn't allow anyone who is age 40-60? Of course, they probably wouldn't make much money...lol, but I still consider it ageism.

[madinmaryland]

38. I beg to differ. A restaurant cannot ban an ADULT based on age.

That being said, children are not adults and as such do not have that right. In essence, the restaurant is not banning the parents of the adults, they are refusing to allow entry of the minors.

[jeff47]

71. They can ban adults. They can't ban adults over 50.

Well, they can probably ban over 50 also. But over 50 is a protected class in employment law, so you can't discriminate against them for employment.

[madinmaryland]

118. I suppose they can ban any aged adult for behavioral issues (i.e. getting thrown out of a bar),

but you cannot ban (or refuse to serve) adults based on age only.

[jeff47]

130. Citation?

'Cause age in general is not a protected class.

[tabbycat31]

149. many already do

Think of a bar/restaurant type. My old stomping ground when I lived in NY still served a full menu after 10, but it banned adults that were under the age of 21.

[MattBaggins]

85. Would you object to a restuarant that bans old people?

[madinmaryland]

94. Not a valid comparison: Older people are still adults. Children are not.

oem.

[MattBaggins]

107. Old people demand reduced prices, are genrally mean and crotchity

they don't tip and they are known to have strange odors.

When I am standing in a grocery line and someone is taking half an hour to unload their carts, have a 100 items in the fast lane, take 5 minutes to balancing their checkbook before writing the check and then spend 20 minutes arguing with the cashier over a penny; it has always been an elderly person.

[madinmaryland]

137. Heh!

I joined AARP so I get a 10% discount at most places. I FUCKING EXPECT IT!

My wife says my farts really stinks, but that is her problem!!

GET OFF MY LAWN YOU DAMN KIDS!!

:D

[Mimosa]

177. What kind of restaurants offer 10% off to AARP members?

Not an AARP member at present.

[JustAmused]

150. Not always

Sometimes it is that snotty know it all type...sort of like you...who is holding everyone up bitching about the person in front of them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Actually due to what we do to food

It really does not matter where you take them... It's best to eat at home, and food out should be a real treat. I'd look for the locally sourced restaurant but it will still be high in the hedonics.

[Maine-ah]

17. depends on the restaurant

I work at a restaurant that uses local organic produce, and local seafood. Very fresh, very healthy.There are several in my area that are like this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. And they still use more fat and salt than what I put at home

Why it should be a treat.

[Maine-ah]

36. probably in most places...yes.

Though I can certainly vouch for the place I work for and say that we don't. We provide fresh, organic, healthy meals, with appropriate portion sizes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Why I assume such and treat going out as a treat

If, throwing numbers, 1 out of ten restaurants uses normal amounts of salt and fat in cooking (and i am sure this is a high number) as a person who watches intake of both, I need to be careful... and ASSUME all restaurants I eat at will do such.

[bigwillq]

14. Why do you care what DU thinks?

You're getting quite the attitude over things folks post on a message board.

[Maine-ah]

19. attitude?

I'm not the only one here with one of those.

[bigwillq]

23. I know.

I do have a good attitude.

:)

[Maine-ah]

27. I have my days, Bigwillq

:hi:

[bigwillq]

30. Don't worry about what people say on DU.

Bring your kids where you want. They're your kids. Your choice. If people don't like it, screw 'em.

[southernyankeebelle]

18. Applebees is great. I see nothing wrong with children at this kind of a restaurant. Maybe

after 6:00 pm in the evening they should have 6 and over than.

[Maine-ah]

25. ever look at even just the salt content in their food?

their food is just as bad as any other fast food joint. Applebee's is glorified fast food. The only difference is you actually have a server.

[thelordofhell]

133. Except for the fact that they sometimes can't tell apple juice from alcohol

[Township75]

21. Anyone who comes to DU to learn how to parent, shouldn't breed to begin with.

.

[bigwillq]

26. ....

:thumbsup:

[Maine-ah]

39. is that what you think I'm doing?

lol...I'm closer to 40 than 30 with a young child. DU is the LAST place I come for, for parenting advice.

[seabeyond]

43. of course that is not what you are doing, but poster got in the word "breed"

giggle giggle says he.

[bigwillq]

44. But that's what you're doing in this OP.

Asking for advice.

"So which is it, DU?"


edited

[Maine-ah]

46. I guess I can see how one would take it that way.

I go to my Mom for the parenting advice....she did raise some great kids ;-)

[bigwillq]

51. She did!

:)

Moms are the best! :) :hi:

[seabeyond]

40. twisty what is said to make YOUR point? i dont see anyone asking how to parent.

not one

show me, please, where a parent is asking for parenting advice.

oh wait.... that isnt what is being said

at all

reading comprehension takes you a long way when making a comment to an OP

[PassingFair]

22. I really don't understand the child-hate on this site.

Life is loud sometimes.

It goes on around you.

In all my restaurant experience, I have
NEVER had my meal "ruined" by children.

I really haven't. A baby cries, so what?
All the parents I've seen, including myself
will attend to the baby until it quiets down.


I agree that parents should quiet their
children if they start acting up, and remove
them if they won't sit still, but I actually
enjoy seeing babies when we are eating out and
would NOT spend money at a restaurant that
BANNED CHILDREN on the grounds that they are
a nuisance.

[PRETZEL]

24. Kids have bad days just like adults,

there were many times where my ex and I had to ask the wait staff to wrap our meals because for whatever reason our kids were just in that kind of mood.

But for every time we've had to leave a restaurant, we've spent many dinners out where the guests around us enjoyed having the kids near them.

[HappyMe]

29. If an adult is being an loud, obnoxious ass

they can be asked to leave. Not so much with a loud, obnoxious kid.

[valerief]

31. Yep, any kid 6 or younger should be eating at home. They're just a nuisance at restaurants. nt

[FarCenter]

41. And they should not be allowed on airplanes either

[valerief]

78. Sounds good to me. nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

127. sounds like the two of you need to start investing...

...in your own restaurants and in a private jet. Have fun.

[KurtNYC]

132. They should live in opaque sound-proof globes like those things for gerbils

only larger, sound-proof and opaque.

[uppityperson]

186. Make sure they have access to a running wheel that is hooked up to generate electricity

Bunch of kids could power a city.

[MattBaggins]

87. And they need to take drivers licenses away from anyone over 60

[valerief]

103. Except that most accidents are caused by young men. nt

[JustAmused]

151. Bye Matt

Shame to see one so young be such a fool....lol

[Maine-ah]

45. ever worked at a restaurant?

I've been snapped, snarled, sworn at... threatened by ADULTS. At least once a week. When I worked at Bee's I should have frigging had hazard pay.

[Maine-ah]

57. to add to that

I've had adults set fires in the bathrooms, I've had adults shit all over the floors, wipe it on the walls. I've had adults leave their USED maxi pads stuck to walls, and underwear draped behind toilets.

You tell me who is badly behaved in restaurants, all the evidence of fifteen years in the business, and I will always tell you it's the adults.

[valerief]

79. That's a shame. Really. Still, kids 6 and under don't belong in restaurants. nt

[Maine-ah]

89. why?

my four year old behaves better than most adults in a restaurant.

[valerief]

98. As I said before, they're a nuisance. Most aren't, too many are.

They can't appreciate dining out like adults and older children can.

[uppityperson]

110. "Most aren't" a nuisance so ban them all. Yeeehaw!!!!!!!!!!

:eyes:

[Maine-ah]

122. like adults who set fires in the bathrooms

or shit on the floors?

[valerief]

129. Pit bulls, guns.

Just thought I'd give you something else to work with.

Did you know we're losing Medicare?

[LostinNY]

164. The only time my under 6 year old (3 at the time)cried in a restaurant

Was when she was hungry and they were taking a really long time to serve us. The crying caught the managers attention, I explained it was taking forever to get served, and many around us agreed with me. All of our meals came out quickly and everybody clapped for my daughter! It was one womens birthday and she gave my daughter one of her balloons on the way out for helping us all get better service!

Autistic kids, old ladies, old men, young drunk men and women, people with ADD, people having a bad day at any age can get pissy, but if you're paying you should be allowed to fly, eat or whatever. When I hear a baby cry or a child get upset, I feel bad for the kid because there is usually a reason and I know there are the judgmental types staring down the parents who are usually doing their best.

We took our kids everywhere when they were young, even a 20 hour flight to China. We got complements at how well they were behaved. When we took our nephew at 7 to a party, he was so unused to being in a loud, action filled fun place, he had a meltdown. We left but it was the lack of being taken places and introduced to them gradually that caused the problem.

[seabeyond]

58. i guess then you would be of the position that kids under 6 should never take a trip.

because when on a simple thing like a vacation, a restaurant is the only alternative, not your kitchen.

but wtf, parents can go a decade or more staying at home, per your requirement seeing how when one reaches 6 another and another hasnt hit that age yet and can be well over a decade before all kids hit 6.

more adult like, thinking something thru.

[valerief]

80. Parents don't need to take children 6 or under on a trip with them. nt

[seabeyond]

88. this is simply... stupid. and we criticize the children. nt

[valerief]

102. Because? nt

[seabeyond]

113. so many reasons. one of them being you are suggesting families go nowhere for over a decade.

you get that dont you. have a kid. 3 yrs later have another. 2 yrs later have a last. tht is 11 yrs before you would allow any family to leave their home. that alone, without any other reasoning (and there are plenty and a BIG one is few kids are out of control) makes it a very very stupid suggestion.

[valerief]

134. One word. Babysitter. nt

[seabeyond]

138. babysitter to go on a trip? to see grandma? one word. what world do you live in? nt

[valerief]

144. Um

pit bulls

[MattBaggins]

90. Yes they do

[valerief]

101. No, they don't. They need to feed, clothe, educate, and entertain the children, however. nt

[uppityperson]

112. Damn straight! Educate them kids in the safety and comfort of their OWN home! Yeehaw!!!!!!!1

Because, after all, there is nothing in the larger world to expose them to that could in ANY way be educational or entertaining!!!!!!11111
:eyes:

[uppityperson]

111. Children should never leave home, don't need to see more of the world? Yeehaw!!!!!!!!!!!

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

114. exactly. lets create really really limited kids. such a ridiculous statement. nt

[valerief]

135. Um

pit bulls

[seabeyond]

139. um.... odd. look, never had issue with kids in restaurant and i dont now. i will enjoy

my peaceful life without the faux outrage and you all be outraged at every turn cause you cannot control your world. whatever

[valerief]

143. um

pit bulls and guns

[seabeyond]

145. ah

and olive garden, breast feeding, circumcision, peta, and so many more things for du

i got it.

[valerief]

146. I don't care about any of those things.

pit bulls, guns, red meat

[LeftyMom]

159. What precisely are parents supposed to do with their kids when they have to travel then?

Babysitters don't grow on trees.

[cherokeeprogressive]

61. You know what? Sometimes I like to nap in the shade of a nice tree in the park.

Soft grass, cool breeze, nice shade... they ALL make for an excellent afternoon nap.

Then? Here come the fucking kids. Fucks up my nap every time.

I would like to, right here and now, propose that we ban those little screaming, curtain climbing, rug-rat motherfuckers from the parks so I can take my afternoon naps when I want to.

[valerief]

82. Kids 6 and under don't belong in restaurants. They do belong in parks but should be leery of pervy

old guys. Of course, kids 6 and under should be chaperoned with an older kid or adult when they're in parks.

Hotels are a great place for adults to sleep.

[cherokeeprogressive]

109. Here's another idea, how about we ban teenagers from the streets as well.

Yesterday in Hollywood... all because they couldn't get into a movie premiere. Gee, I wonder what the movie-goers would have been subject to HAD they been able to all get in. This was organized by a local DJ after they were refused entry into was already known to be an invitation-only event. Here's what the DJ tweeted: "'Today@6pm in Hollywood @Mann's Chinese Theatre. ME+BIGSPEAKERS+MUSIC=BLOCK PARTY!!! RT!" Thank you Twitter!

[LeftyMom]

161. Here we call that loitering. nt

[TlalocW]

32. Where do you guys get all the crap that you put on the walls?

Sorry... what was the original question?

TlalocW

[Maine-ah]

47. lol

the one I worked for...most of it was purchased or donated from local schools, sports teams etc...

[madmom]

35. Ok let's see, I am a say 35 year old, I am bored while waiting for my food. I get up and

run (not walk) around the tables, I go sit with strangers, maybe even try to sample something from their plate. I yell out to my companion about something no one else cares about but will hear anyway. It's ok for me to stay there and screw everyone elses objections! Now tell me it's different because adults should know better and they should be/are asked to leave, well kids should be taught better and when the parents don't teach then they should be asked to leave as well. Teach the kids BEFORE you take them, just like you teach them not to play in the street before you let them play outside, you teach them how to swim before you let them in water, you teach them how to do a myriad of things BEFORE you let them actually do them, it's common sense IMO.

[Taverner]

49. LOL

The irony is that most of the people supporting the kid ban are parents :)

It's because WE KNOW!!!

[Gemini Cat]

50. In this age of parental paranoia, I have never seen a kid

leave their parent's table, come to mine and sample my food or even chat to me.
:shrug:

[Maine-ah]

56. I've never seen it happen in fifteen years of restaurant employment.

[HappyMe]

72. It has happened to me. My son & I

were eating at the White Castle near Madison Square Garden. A cute little girl ran up to our table & sat down next to my son. She snagged a couple of french fries. We were both a bit alarmed because it was a full 5 minutes before the mom showed up. The mom apologized to us. The kid wasn't bothering us, we were more concerned than anything.

[PassingFair]

76. Me neither....

these people must all be eating at the Golden Corral.

[madmom]

93. Maybe we are just not totally oblivious to our surroundings.

[PassingFair]

100. I'm not "oblivious"...

I'm just not neurotic.

[seabeyond]

121. hey... went to grocery store this afternoon. you know what? everyone behaved

was lovely. talk to a few. had one person say i rocked. i helped them twice with something. all the kids young and old were quiet and well behave.

go figure

wooosh, did i luck out.

that was close.

[PassingFair]

123. Did a kid get too close to you? Did it SPEAK?

:scared:

I shudder to think!!!

[seabeyond]

124. no. not too close, though i did dodge at least 4 or 5 adults, but that is ok

we gave each others smiles....

and not a peep. dont think i heard one kids voice. now, there was a little two year old and an employee was trying to get her to talk, but too shy. probably get bitched at for being rude. lol.

[madmom]

152. Guess what, had a doctors appointment this afternoon. There was a mother with a young boy....

looked about 4-5 years old. Very whiny and disruptive, mother kept yelling at him to sit down and shut up, she was busy texting. In the very same room was another mother with 3 kids, 2 boys and a girl. They were being perfectly behaved. They were setting there reading magazines, the older girl was reading to the younger boys, the mother was watching and interacting with them. See the difference? As I said before anecdotes work both ways.

[seabeyond]

157. clue in, madmom. ALL the posts on this issue, and this very issue itself

is all about anecdotes.

why are you following me around repeating yourself, yet not making the same comment to a single other person.

you have the ugly in your world. i get it. it is all around you making your world hell.

i am lucky in that for whatever reason, the ugly does not seem to be attracted to me. i seem to be "blessed" with fun people crossing my path.

i will stay in my anecdotal world, and you can have yours.

[madmom]

176. I'm not following you, but you are the one who seems to be saying .....

"I" this or that or whatever, I'm showing there is another side to it. I don't have all ugly in my world, but I don't see it through rose colored glasses either. There are bad parents out there and there are good. Why should the bad ones be given a break? how or where are these kids going to learn social skills? You guys act like we are talking about a baby crying or an kid being a kid. I'm talking about kids who disrupt the whole room, why do parents ignore them? The kid is doing it because they want attention, which shows me the parents are too self absorbed. I have kids myself, but I never let them intrude on other peoples space uninvited. Besides what's wrong with adults wanting a place to go/a time out, without kids? It's not like there aren't thousands of kid/family friendly places they can go.

[Mimosa]

179. I've shopped for years at diverse 'international' markets

Most kids are very well behaved. And NICE. I smile at them, they smile back. Recent immigrants seem very good at teaching their children to behave. The only times I see kids 'act out' is in regular supermarkets, iykwim. ;)

[JoeyT]

126. I've never seen kids sample food,

but I've had them sit down at my table and I've seen one climb up onto the railing, lean under the sneeze guard, and start digging through the salad bar.

When I said "Ma'am, should he be up there?" to his mother she threw a fit and threatened to have me arrested. (For what I have no idea.) After a minute or so he climbed down without any of the employees that saw it saying anything to them. I wasn't about to eat at a place that let anyone, kid or not, crawl around under the sneeze guard and handle the food.

[Pool Hall Ace]

55. But adults will be adults!

Actually, what you say reminds me a lot of one of my co-workers.

Her boys are 5, 3, and 1. She has a certain "look" that she gives them when they act up and they know that it means I don't like what you're doing. Her husband has his own "look" also.

Before they go in to the supermarket, the boys are prepped on what they can or cannot have in the way of treats. No whining is tolerated.

The kids get plenty of love and praise, also. The family goes out to breakfast every Sunday and the parents consistently receive heaps of compliments on the boys' behavior.

It is called the lost art of parenting, which has been replaced with oh well, kids will be kids!

[madmom]

65. You got it! I am a parent and I know kids will act up,

but you, the parent, have to let them know what is acceptable and what isn't. I have, on numerous occasions, stopped by a table and commended parents on well behaved children. I also praise the children. For those of you who say you never see it, I don't know what to say except, just because YOU haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it does. There are lots of things I haven't seen happen but I know they do happen, it's called common sense.

[cherokeeprogressive]

66. Damn, I miss all the fun stuff. In my 50 years, I've never seen a child do such things.

But then, I never hear the racist conservative with one tooth talking shit in the checkout line either like so many other DU'ers seem to do.

[uppityperson]

116. You and I must lead boring lives. Me either.

[cherokeeprogressive]

117. I'm waiting for my chance though, believe you me.

When the time comes, I'll give the single-toothed racist mentally ill Walmart shopper such a verbal dose of DU-style beatdown that someone from whatever establishment we're in will have to come with a stick and spoon and scrape them off the floor.

Cuz that's how I roll. I am in fact checking into having my conservative Walmart shopper radar tweaked so I can hear them when I'm driving down the street and can turn around and give them holy hell.

I'm TIRED of missing out on opportunities to be intolerant, dammit.

[uppityperson]

115. how do you teach someone to swim before going into water? Learn the theory but not technique?

Seriously? No. You teach them in shallow water where they are (relatively) safe, under supervision. Discuss basic rules before hand, true, but you teach by exposing them to the situation.

[madmom]

154. Exactly in shallow water or a restaurant meant for family dining. When people go to

a more up scale restaurant they not only pay for the food, they pay for the ambiance, which I'm sure doesn't include misbehaving kids.

[uppityperson]

158. Applebees is "upscale"? Huh.

Do they pay for obnoxious drunks at the next table, or adults on cell phones? Ban the behavior rather than a group of people based on some characteristic like age.

[madmom]

168. HUH? what the hell are you smoking? Where did I ever say Applebees was upscale? And yes

I agree ban the drunks and cell phones too.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

170. +1000

And I've witnessed this. Parents think as long as they "keep an eye" on the kid, they can laugh about how cute their little monsters are bothering people they don't know. Just don't have the nerve to tell the little turd to get lost or ask the parent to take control of the situation.....because then it's "YOU CAN'T SPEAK TO HIM/HER LIKE THAT!!!" or "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO RAISE MY KID!!!!"

[Mimosa]

180. That happened to my friend several times

When my best bud and I used to go walking in nearby park we'd sometimes come upon a kid throwing rocks at a swan or something similar. My friend would *nicely* tell a kid to stop molesting the birds in the bird sanctuary. Parents would go ballistic.

[Taverner]

48. I don't think ALL places should ban kids

But clearly, there are 'Grown up' restaurants where the management should be able to exclude kids, or even have an 'adult swim' hour where kids can be there before and after, but not during

[kctim]

52. Why are you confused?

Just don't go where you are not wanted.

I've been to more than a few bars downtown where I was ignored, bullied by the other patrons and even told outright that my kind was not welcomed. I am not wanted so I chose to give my business to people who want my business.

[noamnety]

53. Adding to the points you make

If you bring small children to mcdonalds or chuckie cheese, they will learn that you're supposed to run around and play at restaurants.

We advocate taking children to places where they are trained to learn bad eating out habits, then act shocked when they act that way while eating out. My kid never ran around restaurants - but we never brought her to ones where she would learn that behavior.

[Maine-ah]

59. I will never bring mine to a CeC's.

[Gormy Cuss]

54. The kids are never the problem. It's the adults who refuse to take action.

With supervised kids, the adults need to leave when the child demonstrates that he/she isn't in the mood to be polite (and with little kids, that's to be expected.) With older kids who come in unsupervised it's up to the management to set them straight: behave or leave. This rule also applies to poorly socialized adults.

And for the record, I don't have kids and can't recall a time when I was seated with children who were allowed to be disruptive in a restaurant even when the parents pretty much let them be wild at home.

eta: and I'll take my business elsewhere anytime I encounter a "no kids allowed" policy.

[lapislzi]

63. I am that mother. And I apologize.

I won't give you the backstory, but my ex husband placed me and my six-week-old daughter on an 18-hour flight from Johannesburg to New York--alone. I was on my own with an infant. Despite near-constant rocking, walking, and feeding, the baby screamed for a good two thirds of the flight. It was hell in the sky. I apologized to every single passenger on that plane, and the flight staff. I can't recall ever being more miserable.

Most people were kind and understanding. I got more than a few dirty looks, though.

Some things can't be helped, but parents should think long and hard about where they're taking their children, the kind of behavior that can be expected, and the measures that can be taken to mitigate disturbances to others.

I still squirm when I think of that night.

[HappyMe]

77. Oy, that's a looong flight.

Poor baby, cabin pressure messes my ears up a little too.

[Gormy Cuss]

91. No, lapislzi. That was an entirely different situation. You can't walk off a plane mid-flight.

People CAN walk out of restaurants, theaters, and other land-based public spaces.

Sure, you may have had the option not to fly at all, but in most cases people traveling that far with young children have pretty good reasons for risking it or have no viable option to travel by other means.

[Maine-ah]

97. it is different, Gormy

but some here claim that children and babies (aka "brats") don't belong on planes.

We're so accepting here of all different kinds of people. It's a shame to see so much hatred towards children (brats) and parents (breeders) here on DU.

[Gormy Cuss]

104. Some people here claim to be liberals

even though their posts contradict that label. Intolerance isn't a liberal or progressive value.
:hi:

[Enrique]

64. Applebees, isn't that like the Olive Garden?

:popcorn:

[slackmaster]

70. D'oh!

[demmiblue]

69. Whether Applebee's is healthier than McDonald's is really based on what you order (kid's menu).

A cheeseburger is a cheeseburger, french fries are french fries.

If you compare the two via nutritional analysis, McDonald's is healthier (although there may be a freshness factor).


P.S. I think parents should take their kids wherever they damn well please, for the most part. I also consider places like Applebee's to be family friendly.

[Maine-ah]

171. Applebee's nutritional information.

http://www.applebees.com/downloads/nutritional_info.html

[nomb]

74. False choice. Say no to both. Eat at independent's, there is a WORLD of choice right there. :)

[Scout]

83. any parent that can't parent their child without consulting DU shouldn't oughta be

parenting in the first place. you've only got two choices, eh?

:rofl:

[Maine-ah]

105. I think you missed my point entirely

[H2O Man]

84. Recommended!

Thank you for this. Well done!

[Tatiana]

96. I will personally withhold my meager $$$ from a place that bans children.

These policies sound a lot like children should be "seen and not heard." Do we still think a woman's place is in the kitchen, too?

Yes, some parents need to do a better job disciplining and nurturing their children. However, I wish some of us would recall that we were once children too. No, children shouldn't be allowed to simply run wild or disturb others' dining experience. However, banning all children period penalizes the parents with well-behaved children that pose no problem in a dining establishment. I used to take my daughter everywhere with me, including to fine dining and "yuppy" eateries around the city. People adored her. She would babble sometimes, but mostly obsess over the different colors and textures of the food in front of her. I never had any problems with her crying, fussing, or disturbing other patrons. My son, however, is a terror. Of course, he's only 4 months old and knows no better. Crying and fussing are his only forms of communication at this point. So no, I don't take him to fine dining establishments or places where I know he can (and will, given his personality) disturb the dining (or reading) experience of other customers.

I would prefer if establishments reserved the right to ask all disruptive patrons to leave.

If a child is well-behaved, he or she should be allowed to experience a nice meal dining out.

[hack89]

99. Take your kids to nice places - just be a responsible parent.

Even if it means getting up and walking out.

[Maine-ah]

108. when it comes down to it, Hack, you nailed it.

and thank you. That is what I already do.

[LostinNY]

166. Exactly! N/T

[cmd]

183. Exactly.

And pay attention to the kids. If you engage them when you are in the restaurant, you will probably find that they behave very well. Ignore them and expect them to get ouchy.

[Stinky The Clown]

106. Why would you care what DU thinks you should do? DU is filled with fruits, flakes, and nuts.

I am all of the above.

Do not listen to me.

My opinion is worth what you paid for it: Zero.

I am an old, cranky curmudgeon who hates adults *and* kids.

Get off my lawn, too.

And take your kids with you.

[swilton]

119. Children Should Be Celebrated

They Are Our Future -

I wouldn't take them to McDonalds or any franchise. Sometimes 'children friendly' is a code-word for junk food + breakable China made junk

I also would not take them out if they were tired or sick - misbehavior is likely a result of that rather than a child's being 'bad'.

If a restaurant banned children, consider the source, don't patronize it and opt for an opportunity at a facility that is child friendly. Chances are you would improve not only the quality of your meal in substance as well as atmosphere...Who would want to have children around adults (some of whom may have had too much to drink) who are so stressed out that children bother them.

To hear the latest news announcements this is a smart move on the part of airlines. I see it as one of many in their latest in a long line of gimics fostered by deregulation of the airline industry. Not only do we have no meals on board, no leg-room, no luggage service, no dignity vis a vis passenger screening, no relaxation vis a vis waiting in endless lines, we now have to divide up our families. Left my desires to travel and especially on the airlines as one of the pleasures of an era lost but not forgotten since 9-11.

[JoeyT]

120. The worst I've ever dealt with were parents of kids that behaved poorly.

Who throw a fit if you ask them to quiet their kids down.

It's funny, "Why don't you stop going out in public then!!!!!1111" is an acceptable thing to say to someone that doesn't want to be around children, but "Maybe there could be a few places without kids for people that don't like them to eat." isn't an acceptable thing to say to parents.

The food at McDonald's or Applebees is pretty crap and unhealthy, but last I checked they weren't the only two places that allowed children. No one is proposing laws that ban parents from restaurants. I'd be dead against that. It's a few places that have decided there's money in catering to people that, for whatever reason, don't want to be around a bunch of kids. I'm sure a large chunk of that money will be parents that have a night out to themselves and want to be in an adult space for a while without having to hear someone's little darling wailing at the next table.

This pretend oppression is almost as hilarious as when some old white guy pretends that he's part of the most oppressed group in the country because he couldn't force everyone around him to pray.

[madmom]

155. +1

[JI7]

125. McDonalds and Applebees has healthy food just like upscale restaurants have unhealthy crap

[miyazaki]

156. Say that Asian Chicken Salad at McDonalds is damn good and healthy!

:hi:

[AngryOldDem]

128. Well, some here say you shouldn't have had the kids in the first place.

Problem solved.

Kids can be taught manners if the parents care to and take the time to do it. As proof, I have four of them.

[sendero]

136. I think..

... businesses should, within Federal law, decide who their patrons are. All of you getting all torqued out about a few restaurants that don't want kids CRACK ME UP.

Get a fucking life.

[tanyev]

140. Take them to any restaurant you want that allows them.

But if I know there's a nice restaurant I can go to that doesn't allow kids, that's where I'll choose to go.

[SoCalDem]

141. Don't take it too seriously.. There are "some" here who just love to argue

about ANYTHING/ANYTIME/with ANYONE (although some do have their preferred topics/poster-pinatas.

and I guess since the new DU3 will not have that annoying unrec/rec feature, they are just getting on all the digs they can now:)

It has always tickled me a bit when someone takes the time to click, only to post "UNREC"..

there should actually be a criteria FOR it:

UNREC because:

1. I don't like this poster, so I unrec all they post
2. I don't like the source of the material posted, no matter how factual
3. I don't agree with the article, so how dare an anonymous internet pal post it here
4. marbles

[nini]

142. You do realize all those obnoxious adults started out as bratty kids don't you?

I will say it is possible to be annoyed by both - they are not exclusive of each other.

[LostinNY]

167. What? I was once a child??!!

N/t

[rbnyc]

148. We can't afford to go out anyway...

...summer day camp!

[sarcasmo]

153. Crapplebees.

[LeftyMom]

162. Parents need to plan ahead and pay attention to their kids.

Back when my sprog was little and apt to cry in public, I paid attention to WHERE and WHEN that was likely to happen (in his case it was bright places, noisy places, and near nap time or when he was hungry) and I avoided those places and times. I took him home before he got too tired whenever I possibly could. As he was more verbal I started telling him what our plans were so he could follow our progress and not feel like we'd be out running boring adult errands forever. We'd go over the rules before we went into a new place ("No running, no yelling...") and once he could I'd have him repeat them. We added new ones as we needed them. If he was getting a bit stir crazy I'd find someplace safe to let him burn off a little energy before we continued with our day. I NEVER gave in to whining or begging, so he never got into either habit.

I'm not saying he was or is a perfect kid or I was or am a perfect parent, because neither's true, but kids losing their shit in public are generally doing it because their parents didn't put enough effort into prevention.

[Gormy Cuss]

182. Or it happens because some new trigger set off the kid

but the parents should be able to mitigate the public meltdown or energy spurt because they know what works with their child. If they can't stop it, it's still possible to remove the child from the public setting and help the kid work through it in just about every restaurant, theater, or other public gathering.

OTOH, the parents are challenged when it happens on a plane or similar confinement and most reasonable adults understand that.

[elocs]

174. "DU leaves a parent confused." I reckon most parents don't know or care about DU.

Any DUer who is a parent of young kids and pays attention to what is posted here as to whether their kids should go to restaurants or not is kind of pathetic anyways.

How about this: allow private restaurants to set their own rules.

[B Calm]

175. Who can afford to eat out anymore?

[seabeyond]

184. who can afford to eat anymore

i misread. had a chuckle. then i re read... oh, eat out. ok.

[rucky]

178. Game, set & match. n/t

[rexcat]

181. There is a group of DUers...

who don't like children. When I joined DU in 2001 there was a discussion concerning children and restaurants and at the time my kids were 6+ years old. I have to say my kids, in public, have always been well behaved but at the time there were some rather nasty and rude comments about children in general and my kids specifically. I came to the conclusion that no matter what the facts are there is a group of DUers who are complete asshats when it comes to children. Their opinions are of no consequence to me or my family and not worthy of my time or effort. If they wish not to have children or be around them that is there choice but I have and will continue to take my kids to nice places to eat. They don't like it they can leave the restaurant because I am not!

[seaglass]

185. How about someone with Tourette's or other mental disorders that may not be able to control loud

outbursts? Should they be banned from restaurants?

I think this is really about some people on DU who have a problem with children/parents that has nothing to do with the "disturbance" factor.

[Name removed]

187. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aerows]

188. The worst I ever saw

Was a woman changing her baby's diaper AT THE TABLE next to me in Olive Garden. Her other child was a hellion.

Who changes a baby diaper at the damn dinner table????