If you toss your liberal base under the bus, don't expect them to support you

[MadHound]

"The report explains, "The Post/ABC poll found that the number of liberal Democrats who strongly support Obama’s record on jobs plunged 22 points from 53 percent last year to 31 percent."
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/26/obama-losing-liberal-blac_n_910070.html>

This is what happens when you abandon and belittle your liberal base, they stop supporting you. If Obama wants to get reelected, then he needs to do two things. First, start fighting for genuine Democratic and liberal values, and stop punching the hippies. Otherwise he's going to be a one term president.

Link to original article.
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/more-americans-unhappy-with-obama-on-economy-jobs/2011/07/25/gIQABJ9sZI_story.html>

[Brickbat]

1. Yup. So far, the jobs plan as I see it has consisted of a committee headed by a huge outsourcer,

total silence on EFCA, and a bizarre preoccupation with the way the Republicans have framed the whole debt/deficit/entitlement "debate."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. Trust in Tim!

Ye of little Geithner faith!

[inna]

4. not just "preoccupation", but.... validation of some truly repugnant framing. nt

[inna]

17. "embracing" is even a better term

[EFerrari]

5. Obama's jobs plan was tax cuts. With the expected results.

These people who work inside the beltway have no clue how hard it is out here or they would never sit there and scare the public with a fake financial crisis, of all things. They are completely out of touch.

[dennis4868]

9. it was the stimulus...

and as well Obama wants to spend on the infrastructure which creates millions of millions of jobs but repubs wont let that happen....But I guess if someone like Dennis Kucinish is president the repubs will back down and give Dennis what he wants...HAHAHAHA

[sabrina 1]

28. The Repubs won't let him!

Okay, the US President has no power anymore! So having a Democrat in the WH doesn't help us at all? That's what you just said, right?


Your snide remark about Kucinich does the oppositie of what you probably intended. It is a reminder that the Dem Party has far too many Corporate funded members in it, making the job of real progressive Dems like Kucinich, very hard to do.

Your comment is a reminder of several important facts. There is no point wasting time on the Presidential election because the President has no power.

The focus now has to be on getting rid of Corporate Dems in Congress and replacing them with many more like Kucinich and Grayson and the pathetic few others who actually care about the people.

Thanks for the advice, which appears to be that there is no point at all in wasting time, energy and money on the Presidential race because the US President has suddenly lost his power.

[chervilant]

119. Yeah...

Like anyone obsessed with Bush's boogers has anything relevant to say...

[FedUp_Queer]

144. Ok...fine.

Then:

Mr. President, get your ass outside the beltway;
Mr. President, get your ass on TV EVERY night hitting home the need to rebuild the infrastructure (afterall...everyone knows it's falling down, look at the GD roads and bridges...if he has to be simple about it, tell them..."People look around. The SKY (and all those bridges) is falling.);

And give him majorities in both houses. Oh wait...didn't we do that for the first two years? Oh yes...the stimulus passed while BOTH Houses were Democratic, but, as is usual, that was just not enough. Sixty votes was not enough because sixty votes wasn't really sixty votes. If only he'd had sixty-five...or seventy!!!

Give me a GD break. When are this administration's apologists going to continually stop pointing fingers? Look, the GOP has made it very clear that they are not going to negotiate. They've made it very clear they aren't going to compromise. Their MAIN goal is to make him a one-term president. Now that we know that, act accordingly. Again, do what Reagan did (after all, Obama seems to love that failure of a president so much). Screw the Congress and go directly to the people...hammer away and keep hammering away until you get what you want. Remind the people EVERY DAMN DAY who caused this mess. Tie "Bush" or "Republican" to words like deficit, recession every damn day. Do it until Bush and Republican and conservative become SYNONYMS for recession, debt, deficit, default.

I remember in 1996 Clinton kept repeating the same message: "They want to cut Medicare, Medicaid, Education and the Environment." Every speech, every appearance, there it was. What happened? Clinton obliterated the SOBs...and he had lost BOTH Houses. So...it's time to shit or get off the pot. Stop trying blame "them" and compromise with "them." Unless, of course, Obama really does want to cut social security. Given the people he put on HIS deficit commission, I have to wonder.

[lyonn]

154. Best part of your rant:

"Remind the people EVERY DAMN DAY who caused this mess. Tie "Bush" or "Republican" to words like deficit, recession every damn day. Do it until Bush and Republican and conservative become SYNONYMS for recession, debt, deficit, default."

[Agony]

173. I like your style!

the Lakoff framing that is so sorely missing missing missing... Get your fucking ACT together Dems!

Cheers
Agony

[DearAbby]

19. +1

[Tatiana]

24. Exactly. He bought into the Republican "trickle down" mythology.

He hasn't done anything of significance to improve the jobs situation, IMO.

[EFerrari]

30. And spending cuts are going to make unemployment WORSE, not better.

[INdemo]

126. Obama is way out of his league as President

In the Senate he had other members that would hold his hand and show him the way through, but as President he is totally lost.

[femrap]

145. Obama is

bought and pair for....he is doing what he is told by TPTB on Wall Street and multi-national corporations.

This debt ceiling 'crisis' is going to be used to hurt the elderly, the disabled, the unemployed, gov't workers, and all of the middle/working classes.

The next book will be "THE AUDACITY OF AUSTERITY."

WASF.

[JDPriestly]

92. I seriously doubt that any of the Obama's buy their clothes and schoolbags at Walmart.

[Kermitt Gribble]

52. Don't forget all the new "free trade" bills that will help create jobs..

in South Korea.

[FedUp_Queer]

161. Of course they'll create jobs...

In Singapore, Indonesia and Vietnam among others.

[izquierdista]

2. Maybe 2012 will be like 1912?

But who will be the Bull Moose Progressive? Not the moose from the 2008 election, I hope.

[n2doc]

7. Well she is full of bull

but not progressive...

[dennis4868]

6. I agree...

screw Obama...we need more of these things to get passed that only Dennis Kucinish can through over repubs ---> www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com Oh wait a minute, Obama got that passed already....hmmmm.....

[MadHound]

10. Point out anywhere in my post where I said "screw Obama"

I'm simply pointing out political reality. You can post The List® to your heart's content, but that is not going to change political reality.

[Phlem]

147. +1

-p

[kenfrequed]

106. A few clicks and I see

"issued executive order to close the prison at Quantanamo Bay" That means it was totally closed right? Oh wait. It is still in operation.

And another click Obama has officially stated that the CIA will have to abide by the military's guidebook on interrogation. But this is absolutlely meaningless as the policy regarding extraordinary rendition has not changed since the Bush era.

"Increased minority access to capital." Broken link and a non-specific claim. I don't know whether this is government capital or not. I suppose it would have to be as the recession has statistically affected the latino and african american communities considerably harder.

"Health reform bill" prevents insurance companies from denying you coverage due to preexisting condition. Of course they can't but don't worry the insurance companies are getting a windfall. We are being mandated to purchase insurance from them and besides being given insurance doesn't mean your going to have affordable healthcare.

---------------

There were many things on that list that I agreed with but you cannot just throw the same list at us again and again whenever a criticism comes up. That really isn't the way to motivate change or to answer a critique of the White House. Some of the criticisms about how the President has embraced tax cuts as a stimulus tool do have merit. It is exceptionally lazy, on the part of those that post such a list as a response rather than being bothered to debate on topic.

[GOTV]

111. Yeah, that list is laughable but it keeps getting posted. A few good items and ton of vague pablum

But it's quantity, not quality, that counts apparently.

[kenfrequed]

184. Well yes, apart from vaugeness...

The list is just inappropriate to most topics I see it slathered on. I will gladly admit there are victories there. Happily! But when we are discussing say... How we want to maintain Social security or any other issue it is lazy for someone to post it.

[OnyxCollie]

128. WhatthefuckhasObamadonesofar?

Protect Bushco from prosecution for torture, that's WhatthefuckhasObamadonesofar.

Obama called on the former general chairman of the RNC to stop Spain's investigation of US torture crimes.

WikiLeaks: How U.S. tried to stop Spain's torture probe
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/25/105786/wikileaks-how-us-tried-to-stop.html

MIAMI — It was three months into Barack Obama's presidency, and the administration -- under pressure to do something about alleged abuses in Bush-era interrogation policies -- turned to a Florida senator to deliver a sensitive message to Spain:

Don't indict former President George W. Bush's legal brain trust for alleged torture in the treatment of war on terror detainees, warned Mel Martinez on one of his frequent trips to Madrid. Doing so would chill U.S.-Spanish relations.

US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

6. (C) As reported in SEPTEL, Senator Mel Martinez, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, met Acting FM Angel Lossada during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 15. Martinez and the Charge underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the U.S. and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship. The Senator also asked if the GOS had thoroughly considered the source of the material on which the allegations were based to ensure the charges were not based on misinformation or factually wrong statements. Lossada responded that the GOS recognized all of the complications presented by universal jurisdiction, but that the independence of the judiciary and the process must be respected. The GOS would use all appropriate legal tools in the matter. While it did not have much margin to operate, the GOS would advise Conde Pumpido that the official administration position was that the GOS was "not in accord with the National Court." Lossada reiterated to Martinez that the executive branch of government could not close any judicial investigation and urged that this case not affect the overall relationship, adding that our interests were much broader, and that the universal jurisdiction case should not be viewed as a reflection of the GOS position.

Judd Gregg, Obama's Republican nominee for Commerce secretary, didn't like the investigations either.

US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

4. (C) As reported in REF A, Senator Judd Gregg, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, raised the issue with Luis Felipe Fernandez de la Pena, Director General Policy Director for North America and Europe during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 13. Senator Gregg expressed his concern about the case. Fernandez de la Pena lamented this development, adding that judicial independence notwithstanding, the MFA disagreed with efforts to apply universal jurisdiction in such cases.

Why the aversion? To protect Bushco, of course!

US embassy cables: Spanish prosecutor weighs Guantánamo criminal case against US officials
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/200177

The fact that this complaint targets former Administration legal officials may reflect a "stepping-stone" strategy designed to pave the way for complaints against even more senior officials.

Eric Holder got the message.

Holder Says He Will Not Permit the Criminalization of Policy Differences
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7410267&page=1

As lawmakers call for hearings and debate brews over forming commissions to examine the Bush administration's policies on harsh interrogation techniques, Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed to a House panel that intelligence officials who relied on legal advice from the Bush-era Justice Department would not be prosecuted.

"Those intelligence community officials who acted reasonably and in good faith and in reliance on Department of Justice opinions are not going to be prosecuted," he told members of a House Appropriations Subcommittee, reaffirming the White House sentiment. "It would not be fair, in my view, to bring such prosecutions."

Add that to your fucking list.

[proverbialwisdom]

132. Thanks for the summary. Sickening.

[Phlem]

148. Really?

yes I've seen that laundry list too.

oh and my brother in law just lost his job too.

yes, and my well to do father in law is feeling the pinch as he has not been able to get contracts for his business these days when they used to be plenty full. I actually witnessed the fall off over time.

but that fucking list just trumps reality right?

:eyes:

-p

[NorthCarolina]

8. From 53% to 32% in a year??? What about the 85%-90% approval we've been reading so much about on DU

Like these:


Obama job approval amongst *****LIBERAL****** democrats - 87% http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x674457


Obama now at 85% approval among liberal Democrats http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x718269


Obama has an 85% approval rating among liberal Democrats, and 81% among Democrats overall http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9612004


85% of liberal Dems give Obama a positive job performance rating http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x542224



Does this mean that all these posts were just a nefarious attempt by some here to mislead DU's Liberals? Hmmmmm........

[EFerrari]

12. The much lower number is specific to his performance on jobs

to be fair. But that other high number does get tossed out there a lot. :)

[MadHound]

13. Well, they certainly are out of date,

As far as the rest of it, Hmmm indeed.

[NorthCarolina]

22. The second one listed is from June 22nd, 2011. Not THAT far out of date. nt

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xiamiam]

90. ignore button is very helpful..i have only put a handful on ignore.some have already been tombstoned

I never put anyone on ignore until this past year and I've been here since 2004. I was offended by the very vocal who i found disruptive albeit protected. Of the 7 members I put on ignore, at least 3 have been tombstoned. My experience here is much better without all 7. You will be amazed how few there really are. I'm open to others' opinions..but there is a certain thing that is grating and unnatural which I believe you are describing in your post. I went thru changes before using the ignore button. Trust me, its a good thing.

[newspeak]

139. I find that poll unreal.

One of my friends was a very avid campaigner for Obama and always works the polls. We talked a few months ago and she is so disillusioned-she doesn't even bother to work at the polls. Everyone of my family (except one) are all democrats and we are all to the point of extreme disillusionment with the new democrats.

Those that I've talked to out in the public have very different thoughts than what that poll suggests, especially since the bogus debt crisis. Many elderly have very serious concerns about medicare and their benefits being cut.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[harun]

51. It's a trick in how the question is asked.

[newspeak]

138. yes, it is how the question is asked

I've done two polls-both, I was asked what my main concern was and a list was read to me to choose. I said "creating jobs", however, there were other things on the list that are also very important to me. Asked about Obama, one was in degrees and the other was a yes or no. You say "no" do they think you're going to vote for a repug? Is it a poll being paid for by the repugs?

[Number23]

96. Every single one of those posts has a link to a Gallup poll which corroborates

what the poster is saying. How you can interpret that as "misleading liberals" is the real question.

The polls state what they state. Those posters were telling the truth. Just because you don't understand or agree with it does not lessen their truth.

[dameocrat67]

100. self described liberal democrat does not mean donate to campaigns

and volunteer for them. It does not mean any thing since polling data also show that self described liberals and conservatives often have views that would not be associated with either of those philosophies, and do not have coherent definitions of those terms beyond kneejerk democrat or republican.

[rucky]

185. Somewhere in between that gap is the truth...for now.

Common sense tells me that support among liberals is trending downward - not upward.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadHound]

16. No, actually I'm hoping that he realizes his mistake and swings back to the left

I doubt that he will, he seems like a very stubborn man. But perhaps political reality might force him to swing left.

[INdemo]

20. He is going with the money

corporate money

[MadHound]

21. Well, apparently right now he is SOL in that department as well

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1595393>

[INdemo]

34. Well yes ..pretty much..

All that ass kissing,the Bush tax extensions,the banking reform that wasn't really reform,the hedge fund strict rules that were really abandoned ...Well after all that Wall St and the banks flipped him bird and went with Mitt..Guess he could get a clue as to how his base feels...

[dameocrat67]

101. I think he is a neoliberal ideologue from the university of chicago

I do not think he cares whether he loses. He will get a job with citibank or goldman. we have to be more careful to weed this type of candidate out in the future. The signs were there what with all his links to Robert Rubin. His bankground at the university of chicago and his speeches to the Hamilton project.

[roxiejules]

155. The White House is pretty much full of Third Way-style apparatchiks.

Third Way also echoes, nearly entirely, the White House’s political line ......


http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/07/third-way-document-proves-democratic-party-supports-institutionalized-looting-by-banks.html

“Third Way has long argued that entitlement reform should be part of the solution to America’s deficit challenge. Not only will it put us back on a sustainable fiscal path, reform will save and strengthen our social safety net. We applaud the President’s willingness to do the right thing and lay hands on the “third rail” of American politics.

Some on the left will attack the President for putting Social Security and Medicare fixes on the table, but without action these programs will eventually crowd out our ability to invest in America’s future and force us to default on our promise to provide for tomorrow’s seniors. Postponing reform indefinitely is not an option, and to delay is not progressive.

[Fire1]

122. Yeah, that "political reality" lost us the house. Nobody got

hurt by that, but US!! Thanks loads.

[FedUp_Queer]

163. *******CLARIFICATION*******

MOVE to the left. He was never there...at least not recently.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maven]

33. Obama has pretty much proven un-teachable.

He is engineering his own defeat. OUR defeat. This is about US. Not HIM. Remember?

Who I sincerely hope is learning from this episode are the rank-and-file Democrats who steamrolled anyone who objected to his dubious leadership style back when it could have made a difference.

[chervilant]

120. No duh...

I can remember being blasted by DUers who were ADAMANT that Obama, not Clinton, should get all of 'our' support. Many were rude and obnoxious, and are now relegated to my ignore list.

[newspeak]

140. They neither were my top choices

I figured that I already knew the Clinton's were DLC and I had my reservations about Obama. If you read his book, you knew he had an admiration for Reagan. Anyone even mentioning having an admiration for one of the most bloodiest presidents, especially in Central America, and the corruption. Not to mention the "trickle on" voodoo economic philosophy. Well, we had two choices and I was hoping for the best.

[chervilant]

158. Yeah, well,

I wanted Kucinich. When the 'choices' were narrowed to Clinton and Obama, I preferred the devil I thought I knew to the one who seemed glib and, too often, disingenuous. In other words, I thought that Clinton, like the Big Dog, would strike a less repugnant balance between the haves and the have nots. But, yes, I agree completely that I was hoping for the best...

These days, our nation's political choices seem to reflect the last fifty years of propagandized, partisan pablum that passes for 'education' in this era of corporate megalomania. Partner that with the corporatists' pernicious usurpation of our global resources, and we have a rapacious wolf no longer concerned with donning the 'benevolent' sheep's clothing.

Given the likelihood of a bloody and lengthy revolution, I sense my Kevorkian moment growing ever nearer...

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[damntexdem]

18. Don't tire tread on me.

Obama might not lose just our support, but even our votes.

[BlueCaliDem]

70. I'm pretty sure he's planned ahead for that.

This is why he's tacked more to the "center", where Independents are. They stand behind him, and they'll ensure he'll get the votes he needs to beat any Republican candidate.

But as a Liberal Democrat, even as disgruntled as I am by his lack of liberalism, I will support his campaign, his candidacy, and I will vote for him. I'm not that spiteful that I'd cut my nose to spite my face. We have bigger fish to fry than hurt liberal feelings.

[dgibby]

74. I'm an Independent,

but unfortunately for Obama, I'm a very liberal Indy, and I know lots of Indies just like me. Trust me when I tell you we are NOT happy campers, and most of us always vote democratic.

[LooseWilly]

93. I was an independent... registered Democratic for Obama... going back to independent now...

I'd say most of us mostly vote democratic... ;)

[BlueCaliDem]

114. Well

most liberals a Indies, and they've never been happy with President Obama - not even from the start. I dare say many refused to vote for him, too. So, that's no surprise.

But the Independents I'm referring to are not the ones on one side of the political spectrum, or the other. The Independents I'm referring to are the majority of that group who decide the elections, and the polls show they are behind President Obama.

[xiamiam]

91. I'm in Cali as well..the majority I speak with are not in his corner..nt

[BlueCaliDem]

113. The most

registered / self-proclaimed Independents I speak with in Cali do support him, and will be voting for him.

[xiamiam]

133. i dont know any independents..dems..nt

[BlueCaliDem]

135. I do. eom

[OnyxCollie]

129. Sure, he's planned ahead for that.

Not enforcing the DoJ's order for ES&S to diversify helps.

Who cares what your base thinks if the election's rigged?

[BlueCaliDem]

130. For the country and this democracy

I hope you're wrong, and I know you hope you are, too.

[OnyxCollie]

131. Hope is for suckers.

I know that.

[BlueCaliDem]

134. For the "glass is half empty" peeps, yes, but for me

hope springs eternal.

[OnyxCollie]

136. There's a sucker born every minute.

[BlueCaliDem]

141. And pessimists are a dime a dozen. Your point? eom

[OnyxCollie]

143. My point is that you are ignoring reality

and hoping for something that's going against the proven trends.

Hope correlates with naivete/gullibility.

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. It's interesting that public opinion is overwhelmingly counter to what Obama has offered the pubs.

------ Support ------ ------- Oppose ----- No
NET Strngly Smwht NET Smwht Strngly op.
a. Cutting spending on Medicaid,
which is the government health
insurance program for the poor 26 11 16 72 18 54 2

b. Cutting military spending 43 23 20 56 17 39 2

c. Raising taxes on Americans
with incomes over 250-thousand
dollars a year 72 55 17 27 10 17 1

d. Gradually raising the
eligibility age for Medicare
from 65 to 67 46 25 21 54 12 42 1

e. Changing the way Social
Security benefits are calculated
so that benefits increase at a
slower rate than they do now 42 18 24 53 14 38 5

f. Raising taxes on oil and gas
companies 59 42 17 39 9 31 2

g. Raising Medicare premiums
for wealthier retirees 61 31 30 36 15 21 3

h. Increasing the amount of
Social Security tax paid by
people with incomes over 107-
thousand dollars a year 66 36 30 33 16 16 1

i. Raising taxes on people who
manage financial investments
known as hedge funds 64 37 27 25 16 9 11
*Full sample asked items a-c; half sample asked items d-f; other half sample asked items g-i.

Trend:

a. Cutting spending on Medicaid, which is the government health insurance program for the poor

------ Support ------ ------ Oppose ------- No
NET Strngly Smwht NET Smwht Strngly opinion
7/17/11 26 11 16 72 18 54 2
4/17/11 30 14 16 69 17 52 2

b. Cutting military spending

[mmonk]

25. But....but....where are we going to go after the bread lines and

unemployment office?

[NNN0LHI]

26. That is probably a two edged sword

[closeupready]

27. Agreed. K&R

nt

[ieoeja]

31. So it is personal pique rather than opinion of the job he is doing?

Reading a Civil War history book right now. Reminds me of the difference between Presidents Davis and Lincoln. Both were dissed by their generals.

Lincoln responded, "I would hold his horse for him (i.e. be his servant) if he wins me battles".

Davis responded by demoting the General who led the Confederacy to (narrow) victory in the first major battle.


I prefer the Lincoln approach. If Obama was doing a good job, I wouldn't care what he had to say about me. I stopped supporting his record on jobs when he extended the tax holiday. Nothing he said about me made the slightest difference in that support.

[Maven]

32. B-B-B-BUT 84 PERCENT!!! 84 PERCENT!!!111!!

DUers are irrelevant. Irrelevant!!!

[surrealAmerican]

35. This is a weirdly narrow question.

I'm not even sure what it would mean to "strongly support Obama's record on jobs". How does one support a record?

[bvar22]

36. And I fear that support is NOT really representative.

I STILL give Obama the highest marks possible in every public poll I respond to,
but in real life, I wouldn't help him jump start his car.

I suspect I'm not the only one.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


"By their WORKS you will know them."

[Jakes Progress]

48. +100 Nailed it in one.

[Mimosa]

171. I'd help him jump start his car

And I lie to pollsters as well, BVar.

When the election comes around, the O campaign knows we have no real alternative. I don't know why the DLC 'loyalty enforcers' keep trying to whip us into enthusiasm we can't possibly feel.

[mitchtv]

177. I seem to remember doing the same thing

you got that right

[piratefish08]

37. why do you love President Bachmann so much?!?!

why?

WHY??

[Remember Me]

38. He may not want re-election. Remember that he's said he'd

be okay with one term.

That's really cool IF you have guts and a spine because it frees you to be really bold.

But without those attributes, not so much. It just frees you to be weak and ineffective if that's your natural bent.

[Creideiki]

104. Conciliatory and deferential aren't quite the same as "weak and ineffective"

In fact, in another era, it would likely have been quite effective. However, in today's political climate...not so much. Just not seeing it.

What Obama seems to be trying to do is short-circuit the negotiation phase and speed things up:

Obama: "See, I know that this is what you really want and what you can't part with, here's what the Democrats really want and what we can't part with. Let me start there and we can put this whole long negotiation thing behind us and get to the next order of business."

Republicons: "Oh! That's your starting position? Then you need to come closer to our side or no deal!"

Obama: "Guys, I know what your position is, I'm trying to make this faster."

Republicons: "Nope! Closer to our side!" *whaaa! cry! snarl! act like immature children*

Obama: "Fine. I must have misunderstood your position, and I really want to get on with more stuff. Here's another bit of what you want and while we don't want to sacrifice it, I'll give it up, I guess. Now can we end this negotiation?"

Repeat for the entire length of the usual negotiation cycle + some more.

So every negotiation ends up taking longer than it would have if He would have stuck worth ordinary negotiations and we get screwed harder. You'd think that a smart man would learn. But I think this is Obama's core nature. There's no getting past it.

[Remember Me]

166. Well, in my book, anyone wh o

keeps refusing to see that his being "Conciliatory and deferential" with fanatics who only want his destruction -- at any cost, including the world economy -- make him pretty "weak and ineffective."

[Creideiki]

175. It's only a difference in cause and effect

He's not being deliberately weak and ineffective, but his continual pleas for acceptance by the Teapublicans makes him weak and ineffective. Sadly, far more weak and ineffective than the idiot who held the Office just 3 years ago. However, Bush's incompetence was masked by bravado and self-confidence--and he got almost everything he wanted; wars, the destruction of education for the bottom 98%, tons of money for the top 2%, etc.

[Horse with no Name]

39. YOU ARE FLAT WRONG!!!!!!!!

I know this because in EVERY SINGLE THREAD it is pointed out to me that Obama has 85% of the liberal support! And they supply graphs and polls and other official looking shit. I have to believe it!!!

[Bluebear]

40. Its up to 90%!!!! no wait 93!!!!!1

And dont forget the list!!!

[Horse with no Name]

50. Ahhh the list!

I've got the recorded version on speed dial!

[neverforget]

56. Don't forget

Chill the F out, I got this shit

[scarletwoman]

41. Your all-caps subject line has convinced me.

That, and the multiple exclamation points.

There can be no stronger argument than THAT!!!!!

[bvar22]

105. Well, there IS one argument stronger than ALL CAPS & exclamation points!!!

The Blue Link

NOTHING trumps THAT!!!!!!

[Shining Jack]

109. +1

The blue link of death is almighty!

[neoralme]

42. Here's another one substantiating that 31%.

http://www.cpa-connecticut.com/blog/?p=3972

[Number23]

98. There is nothing dishonest about those posts

This ABC poll relates to the president's liberal support on jobs. The 85% liberal support is OVERALL. http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx

The attempt by a few in this thread to act as though posters who correctly pointed to the 85% overall liberal Democratic support as "lying" is almost cute. As of this post, liberal Democrat support is at 81% while liberal support is at 70%. Still pretty damn good.

[DeSwiss]

43. K&R n/t

[sendero]

44. He's backed himself into a corner..

...and now there is really no way out. It was his choice, and he can live with it. His n dimensional chess game was simply too clever by half.

[emsimon33]

45. Ironically, we aren't "hippies"

We are intelligent, thinking, compassionate patriots who are tired of seeing greed and arrogance destroy our country.

Oh, and we read rather than listening to hate radio and faux news.

[Hawkowl]

69. +1 nt

[LooseWilly]

97. Sorry, but that description makes you a hippie.

Rob a liquor store or gouge a pensioner for his/her rent money... and you can have your hippie-status re-evaluated.

Or, there's an app: http://www.spy-emergency.com/research/V/Virus.Boot.Hippie.html ... :+

[dflprincess]

46. I was at a DFL meeting the other night

a group made up of long time party hacks like myself and not many as liberal as I am. Someone there was whining that she had been calling a list made up of people identified as "strong Democrats" on behalf of Organizing for America and she was not getting warm, fuzzy responses. She was pretty much outraged that people would "dis our president" like that. This opened the door for at least a third of us at that meeting to "dis" him.

This is a group made up of long time party activists who have stuck with the DFL and the national party through thick and thin. I'd say Obama is in some serious trouble and he'd better wake up and figure it out.

[Jakes Progress]

49. They won't listen as long as the kissers keep kissing.

If I wanted to destroy a president, I think a great way would be to get a cadre of yes men and acolytes that keep telling him not to listen to anything negative and applaud even his worst decisions.

[Hawkowl]

72. This should be a seperate OP

Your one sentence shows the extreme political peril Obama is in. He is in the iron grip of a massive "group think". He has surrounded himself with like minded yes men.

[Jakes Progress]

137. I tried once. It got deleted.

First it got about a dozen unrecs in the first 30 seconds. Then someone alerted and it was deleted.


Hmmmm.

[Hawkowl]

142. I hear you.

I it is almost impossible to do an OP like that. Mine all get locked, deleted, reported, etc. I think this is very bad because all it is doing is extending the group-think out into the blogosphere. The cheer leading sycophants will be his undoing--not his critics. The worst possible case is for an "emperor has no clothes" moment the last week of October 2012!

[Jakes Progress]

159. We seem to be able to talk about it for a minute.

Probably no one has seen us. (What? No. I'm not paranoid. They are out to get me.):silly:

Seriously. I feel two ways about the undying faith league. First is that 2008 was their first election to be involved in and they are still high on the primary fights and all the be-loyal-to-your-school pep rally emotions. These believe the man is the party, that nothing but winning is important, that principle and policy are just silly stuff as long as the man gets praise.

The ones I do worry about, and the thoughts that often get me deleted, are the ones concerning plants. I guess technically I am suggesting trolls in our midst, and very identifiable ones at that. But I seriously think that the animus they create would be exactly what a stealth attack on unity would be like.

Oh well. I think it used to be worse than it is now. Of course I say that, knowing that many are awaiting my pizza delivery every day.

[Mimosa]

174. I was wondering about that last night

As somebody who was an ardent Obama supporter and contributor I've noticed there are members who appear to be more 'Obama' than everybody else who are oppositional to any criticism of policies. Those two or three sometimes get very hostile, accusatory and alienating. From what I've observed the tactics -supposedly in support of the President- have been driving people off of DU. Maybe they just don't know how they come across when they get insulting in their attempts to shut off discussions?

Jake's Progress, you're polite, smart, interesting. Darn, I'd like to have gotten to read your deleted topics. :( I might even disagree with you, but at least we could discuss. :D

[Jakes Progress]

179. Thanks. I've disagreed at times with a lot of people that I can discuss with.

But I do tend to have a short fuse when someone just snarks me or even someone else. If I'm out of line with a comment, I can take the shot back. But if someone, or myself, actually has a point only to have that point belittled or have that idea hijacked, I can be less than polite. Not my best trait, but I'm thinking about working on it.

Meanwhile, I think for whatever motives, the really obnoxious choir has cost several votes for Obama. They have never created a convert from doubter to believer.

[Mimosa]

180. Jake, I'm steady despite the nastiness.

Obama is all we have. He seems so 'closed' since he was elected. He doesn't even seem like the same man, the same personality. I've assumed he knows things we the people aren't supposed to know.

What ticks me off is people pretending to support Obama are consistently hostile to me and 2 dozen other early Obama supporters. I never even HEARD of the 'fan club' back in 2007 and 2008. I'm serious. The DUers who act like they're loyalty enforcers I don't remember even posting the 'in the trenches' material' which we used to help elect the president. I keep wondering if I missed something.

But I keep hopin g for the best. ;)

[Mimosa]

172. ^ TRUE ^

Yes men and yes women keep a candidate or an executive out of touch.

[blkmusclmachine]

47. Obama's REAL base: Goldman Sucks, BP/Conoco, PharmaCo

n/t

[unkachuck]

53. "This is...

...is what happens when you abandon and belittle your liberal base..."

....exactly....I could never understand why some corporate Liberals would want to elect pukes. For years the Progressive base has been ignored, marginalized and abused by conservative Dems....and you know that's true....

....they demoralize us to the point of inaction then wonder why pukes get elected....they must not realize, when we suffer, they suffer....

[Jim_Shorts]

54. The prez is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum

He looks intelligent, had the best education, well spoken, holds himself well, has a commanding presence in a room, seems to have a grasp of all the issues.

But his decisions are stupid.

When I look at him now all I can think of is "who are you"

[chervilant]

123. All I can think is

OMG!!! WTF!?!?

[SHRED]

55. Already been done...many times

Now with the latest willingness to offer up Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid to the Repigs he is losing his base at a much faster clip.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

59. Just think. Since Obama is upholding the Bush Doctrine now and the Tea Party is new...

maybe in 4 more years it'll be Democrats openly trying to drown government in a bathtub and Republicans will be pushed by open fascists calling for executions of anyone to the left of today's Republicans.

If you don't put a stake down for some principles, who knows what horrible sea you'll drift off into...

[Veracious]

60. rubbish...

This is the kind of thinking that let the Teatards win last election. President Obama is not extending the Bush doctrine. Guess what if you don't win you get nothing. I will concede I wish President Obama was further to the left.

[MadHound]

61. First of all, the use of the derogatory "'tard" in any description is wrong

Having family who is developmentally disabled, I find your language offensive and you need to put an end to it.

On your political note, you have given away where you are coming from, namely that it is about winning, at any cost, no matter what policies are enacted, what principles are violated. I'm not willing to support draconian spending cuts that will hurt millions all so that we can declare some sort of Pyhrric victory.

[Veracious]

63. LOL ok Ill give ya that one..... I apologize

The "Tea LOL Party" absolutist position you have assumed is meaningless. Principle means nothing in DEFEAT. You will get nothing at all. You will get worse, than you can imagine. Pyhrric LOL its about being EFFECTIVE I'm sure you would agree. How can you affect any action sitting on the sideline? You can't. All energy you've expended whining about President Obama not doing enough should be spent convincing independents.

[Veracious]

65. If you lose what policies will you enact? Can I go with Teafarts?

Seriously this energy should be spent fighting for what we want and being effective. Not sowing discord.

[MadHound]

67. Wait, are you now having a conversation with yourself?

And aren't you one(or one of you) to be talking about not sowing discord. Have you read your posts in this thread?

[MadHound]

66. Ummm, I said nothing about Obama extending the Bush doctrine in this thread

Oh, wait, you edited that one out, realized who you were talking to, eh?

Nor did I espouse any absolutist position in this thread, "Tea LOL Party" or otherwise(curious how you like to use insults to try and get your point across). I'm simply pointing out that actions have consequences, and now President Obama is experiencing those consequences(you know that old adage about using insults to cover for a lack of facts and/or intelligence in a debate). And frankly, at least according to these polls, Obama needs to be working on wooing liberals back into the fold. After all, this is a Big Tent party, and if it is going to function, you need all factions in order to succeed. You're not going to get far without liberals, even if you catch the independents(oh, and remember, independents don't automatically mean those in the center or moderates. Independents are simply unaffiliated with either party, and their political views range from liberal to conservative). Hard to be effective when you're out of office:shrug:

So, here you are, getting your facts wrong, and being insulting. I think that you're proving that old adage correct.

[Veracious]

73. yeah my bad I thought it was readmoreoften...but you are off the mark

No seriously your thread suggests you will not support President Obama if he doesn't "woo" you. Seriously? You think this is going to be an effective plan of action? And this is an exact type of ineffective position that let the "Tea LOL Party" win seat last election. You posted it. So you must endorse this position. Principle is all fine a good, but Independents control who wins elections. Sowing discord will not get us anywhere.

[MadHound]

75. Again, you are ascribing actions to me that I didn't take,

And trying to stuff sentiments into my mouth that I haven't said. Where in my thread have I said that I will not support him?

Again, this is a thread about actions and consequences. Not a thread stating that I "will not support President Obama if he doesn't "woo" you." But I do find it interesting that you consider such a post to be "sowing discord." What, reporting the news is now "sowing discord"? Wow, rather totalitarian of you.

As far as any post on DU letting the Teaparty win, well:rofl: you are giving DU far too much credit. If you think that a post, any post on a chat board, any chat board political or otherwise, is going to effect national elections, you're ascribing far to much power to this place.

And please, stop stuffing words and sentiments into my mouth. A post about actions and consequences is not "endorsing" anything.

[Veracious]

77. If you toss your liberal base under the bus, don't expect them to support you

You posted this you must endorse this position.

[MadHound]

78. It isn't a "position", it is a statement of fact,

Much the same as saying that if you throw moderates under the bus, don't expect them to support you. This is a Big Tent party, and as I've said before, you need to keep all factions within the party happy to some extent in order for the party as a whole to succeed. It isn't a "position" it's reality.

[Veracious]

80. Polls are not fact...nice try. I challenge your base assertion.

Don't tell me you don't agree with your own post. He needs to "woo" is fact? Liberals will let more rightwing reactionaries gain more power if they are not "wooed"? Seriously the base assertion is weak at best and has no factual base.

I am asking you What policies will you change without power? How is this an effective plan of action? Inaction as a plan of action?

[MadHound]

82. Things go straight over your head, on a regular and repeating basis

The statement of fact is that. . .oh why bother, I'm tired and you either can't or won't get the point I'm making. Not to mention that apparently you don't know who you are talking with on this thread at times, you resort to offensive insults that are beyond the pale, you will stuff words in my mouth that I didn't speak and are even willing to carry on a conversation with yourself if all else fails.

I'm tired, it's late, we can carry on this discussion, if that's what it is, at a later date.

Good night:hi:

[Veracious]

83. After watching rightwing reactionsaries try to destroy the country LIBERALS will SUPPORT.

Thanks for the fun. Your vote = a representative that makes change for you. So you dont even agree with your own post. LOL:toast:

[MadHound]

85. You're replying to your own post again,

Are you talking with yourself, is this some sort of externalized internal monologue, what? Speaking of "woo".

[DesertFlower]

62. there was a democratic congressman on MSNBC today.

don't remember his name, but he said obama is a moderate conservative which is upsetting the left.

bill clinton was a moderate too, but he stood up for democratic values.

[inna]

87. Bill, with all of his faults, was still a Democrat.

Obama, not so much, despite the letter he ( for some reason) chooses to place after his name.


In fact, he'd do the Democratic party (and the country in general) a HUGE favor if he ran as a Republican instead. (I know, it's not going to happen, but... it doesn't hurt to dream. :shrug: )

[DesertFlower]

89. my husband said if he thought he could

win as a republican he'd change parties.

[a2liberal]

64. K&R (n/t)

[Scurrilous]

68. GDSVU n/t

[MadHound]

71. Now that's an acronym I've not seen before

What does it mean?

[Veracious]

76. What policies will you enact if you lose?

Enough of the mechanical diversions. I apologize to you. Now you seriously have to be kidding with this "woo" stuff. You can not effect any change if you lose. What is your alternative plan of action?

[MadHound]

79. What "woo" stuff? I posted links to a poll and a couple of articles,

It isn't "woo", it is fact:shrug:

Also, I'm in no position to enact any policies, and again, this is a post about actions and consequences. I have no plans to enact. This is not a post about plans, it is a post about what happens when you ignore, berate and belittle a large part of your constituency. Please, get up to speed and stay with the program.

[Veracious]

81. Hardly Fact.

You are arguring against your own post.

[Bluebear]

Woo.

[MadHound]

86. And new woo at that

:crazy:

Woo hoo.

[MadHound]

84. I think you are thinking of the wrong definition of "woo"

"Woo" as in crazy:shrug: Look it up, it's that slang all the cool kids are using.

[Veracious]

88. To entice or seek affection....

Seriously? I love your passion. Well chat more laters. Woo its the opposite of throwing under the bus.

[socialshockwave]

94. It's pandering -

like to what I used to be. Giving up too much ground to centrists and the New Democrats or whatever they are called is dangerous.

As they only want a compromise "now" - what happens later on, on issues like same sex marriage, abortion, etc? It all goes to crap as the party ends up being run by Blue Dogs and other corporate Dems.

The people will blame Speaker Boner and the Teaheads for any kind of default. It's their fault that they're throwing the American people under the bus, but this all wouldn't be necessary if the President didn't throw his progressive base under the bus, too. Change we can believe in - hell, I cheered for Obama from my home in Canada. But now I just see he's being bought and sold like any other corporate politician and it's sad.

[defendandprotect]

95. Consider ourselves lucky, however, that the mask has fully dropped off -- !!!

The days of "Hamlet" like wondering are over -- !!!



:nuke:

[obxhead]

99. Obama has not stopped supporting his liberal base.

He never began supporting the large center that elected him much less the liberal base that started chanting his name.

It's going to take years, probably even decades to fix the mess that politicians have caused us. Obama promised to bring change.... to begin that heroic fight. He has failed so far and at this point it is probably to late to begin.

[Sherman A1]

102. "This is what happens when you abandon and belittle your liberal base,"

Precisely....

I never expected him to be a Dennis Kucinich, but I expected a whole lot better than what I have seen. He may very well be a one term President, that however is up to him to decide as the GOP has a rather bizarre group of choices at this point. The 2012 election is up to Barack Obama to lose and how it comes out is really up to him.

[greenman3610]

103. because we all know there's not a dime's worth of difference

between George Bush and Al Gore

[VeryConfused]

107. The base hasn't been tossed under the bus, the only whining comes from

Professional Leftists that NEVER supported the President and made it difficult for the President to accomplish all the great things he has done as they have been sniping at him since before he got into the White House

[MadHound]

108. Great things like extending the tax cuts for the rich?

Great things like expanding our illegal, immoral military involvement overseas? Great things like Gitmo, Bagram, Somolia. Great things like the public option. Great things like expanding the police state.

Yeah, great things indeed:eyes:

You aren't helping to make your point with the gratuitous insults and accusations. But I suspect that you're not here to make a point, but simply to spew bile. But hey, even spewing bile makes a point, not just the one you want.

[chervilant]

124. hmm...

Given that DUer's previous posts--and the responses thereto--many have agreed that his DU moniker is spot on.

[nxylas]

110. If "punching the hippies" was winning him votes elsewhere, I could at least understand it

But his overall approval rating has been in steady decline for some time now. Is there any evidence that the supposedly all-important moderates and independents are impressed by the White House calling us "fucking retarded"?

[chervilant]

125. Or,

how about "YOU progressives," in a condescending, dismissive tone of voice?

[zacherystaylor]

112. Nobody has represented the majority

Nobody has represented the majority of the public in a long time thanks to the absurd campaign laws and the consolidation of the Mass Media; or at least no one that holds a high office in most cases, Sanders May be the closest thing to an exception. Any viable candidate according to the Mass Media has to collect enough money for their campaign in order to get any attention. They can't collect this without approval of the corporations; therefore the corporations have almost complete veto power over the candidates we're allowed to choose from.

In order to change this we need election reform that is controlled by the public and enables the public to decide what questions are asked from the candidates in job applications they should be required to fill out for ballot access and in interviews they should be required to attend. For more if you're interested please see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x517857">this string about election reform at DU

[patrice]

115. HuffPo is a whore.

[MadHound]

151. Attacking the messenger instead of the actual message.

Actually, it was the Washington Post, and ABC who did the poll.

[patrice]

164. The messenger matters. Otherwise, we should be watching F*x Ewes because they are not lying 50% of

the time.

[MadHound]

167. So why are you going after HuffPo when the original article, and poll, is from the WaPo? n/t

[patrice]

170. So, WHY is HuffHo cited? nt

[MadHound]

176. HuffHo, aah, that's so cute,

It makes the years drop right off of you to reveal that inner middle schooler.

By the by, you did notice that I included the link to both the HuffPo article and the WaPost article, didn't you? Or did you get so excited by the chance for your first double entendre that you didn't notice?

Funny also how you don't want to address the actual content of the articles, but rather cast aspersions at the messenger. Why is that? Oh, never mind, I see you don't have a leg to stand on, never mind.

[patrice]

181. Why did you ridicule me instead of answering my question? nt

[MadHound]

182. Because I find it absurd that you're ridiculing the messenger,

And not dealing with the content at all.

[Mosaic]

116. Racial politics

A lot of racial politics going on beneath the surface. We all know the pugs hate blacks, but maybe Obama is getting a little revenge for all those years of humiliation under slavery. I don't blame him.

[patrice]

117. "IF" is a big word made smaller by the "liberal base" throwing itself underr the bus & blaming PO.

[MadHound]

153. Let's see,

I don't recall that it was the liberal base who wrote off the public option, or extending the tax cuts for the rich, or who engaged us in more illegal, immoral wars. Nope, that was the Obama administration. And those are just the tip of the iceberg.

[patrice]

165. DEFINE "liberal base": WHO exactly are we talking about? CONCRETELY. What are they DOING

that is "liberal"? Where is the proof/support for anything that amounts to some justification for that label? Where is the concrete ACCOUNTABILITY that makes them an authentic political factor? Digits on the internet? Digits in this hall of halls of mirrors???? Pardon me, but it is to laugh!

People use that phrase all of the time, liberal, left, whatever, -base like they are talking about some actually identifiable for real persons doing something EMPIRICALLY verifiable that ALL of us agree is Liberal/Left/Progressive/whatever and NONE of that has happened. It doesn't EXIST. Just like the Teapartyers, just saying something does NOT make it so, using a meaningless the phrase on the internet does not make it real. Where's the concrete substantiation that there's anything like a "liberal base"?

Aside from the real people out there doing the real work of social and economic justice in the trenches, where many of them have been their entire lives, the "liberal base" at this point is click-assets on the internet that internet entities herd into their environments and sell stuff, like HuffPo stirring their so-called leftie shit (on a CRAPPY website by the way) and then subsequently SOLD those click assets to their REAL customers, people who can pay $30K for women's purses - FACT. THAT's throwing yourself under the bus.

Get a clue, America, about what the internet really is and what drive$$$$$ it . . .

Cookie, cookie, who$$$$$$e got what kind and how many?

Show me your "liberal base" having actually accomplished something concrete and accountable then I'll consider whether their accomplishment, whatever it is, matches what I understand to be liberal or not.

[indepat]

118. No one who is party to deficit reduction being thrust on the backs of the old, frail, and poor

will ever get my vote and my eight progeny of voting age will be cajoled to do likewise. :patriot:

[placton]

121. sadly he will not do that

he is, after all, a right winger in sheep's clothing

[Recursion]

127. If you toss your President under the bus, expect the Dems to move even farther right

If Democrats can't count on liberals to vote for them, they're going to move to the right, particularly on social issues, to get the larger numbers of independents.

[MadHound]

156. Well then, if they move even further to the right,

Then they and the 'Pugs can merge into one party, leaving those who are left of center to form a truly progressive party.

Hell, we're halfway to that point as it is now, and given Obama's policies, I wouldn't be surprised if this comes to pass.

But really, the people of a party aren't obligated to support their representative no matter what. That rep is however tasked with following the wishes of his/her constituents. It's called a democracy.

[Veracious]

146. The "Tea LOL Party" Retards Progress...

Yo Dawg dis complete NONSENSE. Polls are NOT facts they only represent an attitude at a certain time under certain conditions. I ask you once again. What polices will you enact if you lose? You either agree with your own post or you do not. You are suggesting inaction as a plan of action? You seem to think that a few mechanical errors on my part invalidate my position. You get ZERO change if you do not win. Seriously we all wish President Obama were able to implement more progressive polices, but we have rightwing reactionaries retarding his progress at every turn. Sitting at home in the next election will not change ANY of the things you are whining about. Now is the time to close ranks and crush the "Tea LOL Party". Republicans have not had one decent idea in over 40 years. Get technical wif dis. LOL

[Plucketeer]

149. Biden's remarks to union members

"Don't come cryin' to me!" - that said VOLUMES about this administrations attitude towards what's left of it's Democratic base. While Biden's famous for his gaffes, this was not one of those. It was a rare moment of candor as to the REAL why of how we're being marginalized. Right now - for us peons - there IS NO representation. It's as simple as that. :grr:

[Veracious]

150. Yeah..Fair Pay for Women was a "Tea LOL Party" idea..

More nonsense. I'm sure you will "experience" even less representation with more Republicans in office. Nice try some out of context quote....:nopity:

[Plucketeer]

169. If you were familiar with the incident

and I doubt you are - you'd understand why I posted what I did. Yes, there's other lesser things Obama's done right, but they're offset by the even bigger list of sell-outs or flip-flops he'd done.
Why didn't he recess appoint Elizabeth Warren to head the new financial oversight department? Guantanamo, more wars instead of the endings he promised, Patriot act redux, etc., etc., etc,.etc.........

[louslobbs]

157. There's only one thing we know for sure, even if President Obama was to lose, he still wins. Book

deals, speeches, memberships on various boards and so on, will increase his wealth phenomenally. He will have government protection the rest of his life and will never worry about health insurance, educating his children or where his next meal is coming from.

The rich and powerful, almost always do "ok" for themselves, Democrat and Republican, when they leave any powerful office. The only ones who always seem to get stuck holding the empty bag and taking the continued draconian cuts, are We the People.

Those in positions of power now, continuously cut taxes for the rich (themselves), and for the corporations they hope to profit from in the future. They push for deregulation so that the companies can do things to make more profit, even if it collapses the economy, makes the water unsafe to drink, makes food unsafe to eat, makes flying less safe, makes drugs less safe, or poisons the environment. This is why the game is rigged, you scratch my back now, and I'll scratch yours later......with a bing ole Sarah Palin like Wink.

Almost everyone who has held a powerful office in this country whether at the federal or state level, goes on to either lobby for big bucks, forms their own CONsulting business (where they manage to get lucrative government contracts), starts a "think tank" (whatever that really is), or takes a job with an oil company, a big bank or a large investment firm for a fat salary, bonuses and excellent benefits. Plus, in many cases, there's that lifetime "government pension" that all of us pay for, for the rest of their lives.

The rest of us don't usually have the connections or name recognition to get in to see people in "high" places once we leave our prior jobs (what am I saying, most can't even get jobs let alone consider leaving them), but those in the Congress and Senate particularly are already planning for their future fortunes while still in power representing the many corporations now, where they will one day, after a career in politics and making sure that their government pension is there, go to work for and continue to represent said corporations as "private" citizens.

These my friends, are the real people who have been and still are, sucking off the government teet, not We the people, (the majority) that they look at as "the little people," those who are less than or beneath them.

We've all been played for suckers by those who make sure that they and theirs will never have to worry, while their policies create nothing but financial stress and worries for the rest of us. So, not to worry, no matter what plays out, President Obama will be just fine, We the People on the other hand?..............
Lou

[JoePhilly]

160. Parts of the "libral base" seem to feel they get hit by every bus

that goes by.

And not even just the ones they see go by, but also by those buses that others claim went by on other streets.

Its as if seeing a bus, or hearing 3rd hand about a bus, is the same has having had that bus run you over.

[MadHound]

168. And that is relevant to this poll how, exactly?

The fact is that a lot of liberals are dropping their support for Obama for a number of reasons ranging from his stance on the war(s) to his stance on SS.

So other than grumbling about it, something concrete needs to be done by this administration in order to retain liberals' support, otherwise Obama and the Dems will be SOL come 2012. That is the reality in this matter.

[Recursion]

178. Except they aren't really

Outside of fringe echo chambers like here and FDL.

[MadHound]

183. Then explain this poll.

If this was just an echo chamber phenomenon, Obama's poll numbers would still be up. But they are now down to thirty two percent among liberal Dems. That's far beyond an echo chamber.

[Name removed]

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