WOW! You know how we've been hearing how the shooter spoke to Giffords in 2007? He got owned by her

[Very_Boring_Name]

It's come out what exactly took place in 2007 between the two. From the Wall Street Journal:

Mr. Loughner said he asked the lawmaker, "How do you know words mean anything?" recalled Mr. Montanaro. He said Mr. Loughner was "aggravated" when Ms. Giffords, after pausing for a couple of seconds, "responded to him in Spanish and moved on with the meeting."

He called her unintelligent after that. Sounds like she was pretty damned intelligent to me, and he was just upset to find out that she was smarter than he thought he was.

[dmr]

1. Link?

Thanks
:hi:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[Very_Boring_Name]

7. Here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071191163461466.html?mod=wsj_share_twitter

[dmr]

30. Thank you

:hi:

[Name removed]

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[Tunkamerica]

24. pwned

[Mojeoux]

4. I wonder what she said in Spanish? nt

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[Politicalboi]

6. Because words do mean something

Mr. Loughner said he asked the lawmaker, "How do you know words mean anything?"

[Name removed]

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[Tunkamerica]

26. I'm sensing... a touched nerve

[disillusioned73]

36. Me... as well

buenos dias Tunkamerica

[Tunkamerica]

40. guten tag, desillusioniert dreiundsiebzig

[Ghost in the Machine]

32. It was a stupid fucking question not even worthy of an answer....

"How do you know words mean anything?" Yeah, I probably would have babbled some gibberish at him, after all, how would he know what it meant? The dumbfuck was using words to convey the meaning of his question.. wasn't he??

[eridani]

37. I had a philosphy professor once who answered questions like that with

--"Who wants to know?"

[we can do it]

44. Kind of Like Explaing Correct English, Facts and Spelling To a Teabagger, Right?

[Swamp Rat]

8. I guess it went over your head too.

Bemvindo ao DU.

[Name removed]

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[Swamp Rat]

22. One does not have to understand Spanish to understand what she meant.

Do you get it now?

'Só canto o buliço da vida apertada, da lida pesada das roças ou dos eito. E as vez recordando a feliz mocidade, canto uma sodade que mora em meu peito'

[Mojeoux]

45. Oh of course I get it. It dosn't matter at all.

I was just curious for the sake of history ect. I kind of doubt that the murderer spoke Spanish anyway.
Political semantics were some kind of crazy obsession with this kid.
His question was the kind of question that immediately identifies the asker as a knucklehead.
I guess you guys maybe (?) saw my question like that. I sure never ever never ever would think or imply that whatever she said gave the crazy guy some kind of absolution.

She might have blessed him, I was just curious.

PS Your Artwork Rules Swamp Rat !!

[Very_Boring_Name]

25. Haven't we been through this already? Did I not explain it clearly enough?

Clearly words don't matter too much to you, I might as well be speaking spanish.

[Very_Boring_Name]

9. She used spanish to prove that words DO mean something

Since we need words to understand one another. If words meant nothing then responding in spanish wouldn't matter, since the words she was saying would be meaningless anyways.

[Name removed]

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[Systematic Chaos]

23. You have a little less sympathy?

Is that to say that a simple verbal snub merits the reply of a bullet to the back of the head, along with the outright murder of six other people and wounding of several more? Things must be pretty rowdy at your house.

I can see already you're going to be one to watch, for a little while anyway.

:)

[Mojeoux]

46. No. It is NOT to say that. I Just was curious. She might have blessed him.

NOTHING absolves murder and why would you think that I would imply such a thing? I wanted to know the words she used to answer his stupid question about words.
Less Sympathy?? Good Heavens, nothing could take away my fury at the RW Violent Imagery and the vicious evil thing this kid has done.

Please keep watch on me Systematic Chaos, read my journals. I've been a serious peace-love lefty since before I was arrested in the 1967 Detroit riots, just for living with the MC5.

I've stood in the rain and hot sun on the streets protesting these stupid wars as a member of "Women in Black." We've taken slurs and insults from war-mongers and worried about assholes with Glocks more than once.

[aquart]

28. Yes, dear. It's HER fault he tried to murder her.

That's quite ...interesting...logic. Much like...... oh, who could I be thinking of?

[Very_Boring_Name]

31. delete

wrong person

[Mojeoux]

47. This is NOT my logic. I was interested as a poet and songwriter.

NOTHING she could have said, even if she insulted his mother, NOTHING excuses or mitigates or absolves in the tiniest bit
this evil and vicious thing this kid has done!

I posted something snarky about this kid's parents yesterday morning and I posted that I was wrong last night. I say this because I understand posting pissed.

[dkf]

10. Damn that probably didn't help her much with a person with his condition.

[Name removed]

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[Very_Boring_Name]

12. I don't think it was demeaning him

It was showing him exactly why words mean something.

[regnaD kciN]

27. And, while we're talking about demeaning someone...

It seems to me that someone who comes to a forum where serious political issues are being discussed and starts demanding proof that "words mean anything" is being deliberately disruptive and disrespectful. It's a little like someone getting up in the middle of the HCR debate and asking if the whole idea of health care is irrelevant considering that our bodily essences are being sucked out every night, as we sleep, by visitors from the planet Neptune. It's hard to tell when someone is acting clinically insane versus just trying to be a heckler.

[Systematic Chaos]

29. And all this time I thought the little buggers were from Uranus.

:evilgrin:

[eridani]

38. Whose anus? SMILE when you say that, mofo! n/t

[rbrnmw]

13. classy

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

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[Hissyspit]

14. It wasn't an insult. She was making an obvious point as part of the conversation he apparently

wanted to have. It's not her fault she didn't know she was dealing with a mentally unbalanced person.

Do you really want to partake in blaming the victim?

[dkf]

18. Well we are saying we need to temper everything to not set off unbalanced people.

Maybe Orwell isn't suitable for unbalanced people either.

[Name removed]

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[Hissyspit]

33. Bullshit.

And ugly bullshit at that.

[pinboy3niner]

34. Amen

Strikingly insensitive victim-blaming. Some of the running comments are disgusting.

[demmiblue]

35. Very disgusting...

and very transparent to boot.

[RainDog]

43. I initially assumed you had a decent intent in your remarks

but, apparently not.

you say here that people have to watch what they say then pretend that people are saying all need to temper remarks to not set off unbalanced people.

tell me how a woman who replies to a question in a way that illustrates succinctly the idea that language matters is the same as someone who talks about applying second amendment remedies or someone who talks about using bullets if ballots dont' work?

tell me how you can derive such a false equivalency with any semblance of logic or honesty because I would really like to see where you make the jump from politically violent rhetoric to answering a question with an answer that illustrates as well as answers.

honestly.

[Skidmore]

16. Proving what?

Regardless of the interaction, the weight of the act he committed is not justified. A stable and grounded personality would not react in such a manner. I think he acted with premeditation. You do not have to be stable to be deliberate in your actions. The interaction between Representative Giffords and this man is inconsequential.

[dreamnightwind]

39. Mark David Chapman?

That Wall Street Journal article was interesting.

"One of Mr. Loughner's ambitions was to be a writer"...

"Mr. Montanaro said his friend "was never really political," but "really tried to be philosophical." Mr. Loughner liked "contemplating the meaning of words and the origin of language," Mr. Montanaro said."

It sounds to me that his interest in words and their meaning (or lack thereof) might have been real.

I'm sure his question seemed quite odd and out of place to Giffords. She probably thought her response clever (and it was). I can see how it might have been insulting to Loughner. Maybe he thought people there laughed at him after her response, just musing my way through this, since that info is not provided, but her response was quite out of the box and I would imagine people there found it funny (which it was). Could have been other factors, too, such as the way she said it (was she acting superior or snotty, or did he have some racial tensions with Hispanics or the use of Spanish, not all that unusual in that part of the country probably).

So it looks likely to me that we have a real mixed up young man asking an odd question that he had a sincere interest in, out of place as it was for the occasion. This kid may have felt that he was made a fool of. Nothing to celebrate in my book, as in "he was owned by her". Anyway, quite likely that he, instead of accepting this fate as the result of an odd question at a political gathering, he transferred those feelings to rage against the one that "did it to him" (in his view).

Funny how events spin out. We never have any idea what will happen. Important things get ignored entirely, minor little things turn out to have insanely huge consequences (think John Lennon refusing to grant Chapman his autograph, if you accept that story as the reason for his killing, not sure if I do or not, I always suspected larger forces may have done that hit), this may well have been such a thing, makes a kind of twisted sense to me.

I've been trying to figure this thing out since it happened, had nothing but a blank before, feels a little closer now. Very sad.

[pinboy3niner]

41. Thanks for your very perceptive comments

Part of the problem with some of the reactions here to this information is that we don't know the context. What else was said by him, or by others at the time? And we're given the question that he asked, but we still don't even know what Rep. Giffords said in reply; we know only that it was in Spanish.

Something else that occurs to me is that this happened at a time when Arizona was embroiled in immigration issues, and some protesters were carrying signs that said things like, "SPEAK ENGLISH" and "ENGLISH ONLY." Could that have affected the exchange, or Rep. Giffords' interpretation of the question?

Or did Rep. Giffords simply see the question as an attempt to be clever, and did she merely try to reply in kind? We really have very little information to go on to help us understand the encounter.

I second your reaction that that there is no reason to conclude that "he was owned by her," or that that would be something to cheer. Considering all we know now about Rep. Giffords, it seems extremely unlikely that her intention was to insult him or to be dismissive or insulting.

[Celebration]

42. politicians have to answer TONS of questions from people

They have answers prepared for the normal ones. Answering in Spanish for a question like this is about as decent an answer as anything else. The only thing that could have mollified him is something like, "you are right, and brilliant. Words have no meaning." Maybe this awful thing wouldn't have happened if she had said that. But, um, that would have been an insane answer to an insane question.

[Rex]

48. Hmm...being anti-immigration I can see how he became personally offended.

Not taht I agree with this bullcrackery - but I can see maybe the start of this. She offended him by talking in Spanish.

[woo me with science]

49. I think it was a brilliant response.

The more I hear about her, the more I like her.

Such a fucking tragedy.