Question and some advise needed ...please

[madmom]

My son is married and has three children. His wife went to a different state with the children to visit her parents. She has been there about a month. Now she tells him she's not coming back. What if anything can he do? He doesn't have money for a lawyer. Help please.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Sounds like a kidnapping to me. nt

[FreakinDJ]

2. Not much really

He could fight it but probably not going to help too much

she has already established residency I take it

[madmom]

4. She's living with her mom, supposedly "looking" for a job.

[FreakinDJ]

12. Exactly - she has established residency already

Yes he could file in the local jurisdiction specifically requesting to courts to order her to return. The jurisdiction she has moved to "May or May Not" recognize his local authority's request.

In short - its complicated, definitely takes a lawyer to file all the motions in 2 different jurisdictions and has slim chances of winning

She or her mother must have already talked to a lawyer prior to her moving because only a lawyer knows what a long shot this is without a divorce already being filed to order her to return

Tell him to check here http://www.dadsdivorce.com/father_divorce_forum/

they have a few lawyer/paralegal types who often comment on that exact subject. Being a Father who was forced to raise my kids alone for many years I used to contribute there based on my experiences. But there are many much more knowledgeable then me

[steve2470]

3. Not a lawyer but have personal experience like this....

It depends on the precise wording of their divorce agreement. Unless state law and/or the divorce agreement prohibits her from moving and taking the kids to a different area, she can do as she wishes.

Your son needs a family lawyer. This is too complicated for him to handle on his own (pro se). He COULD do it on his own but he risks angering the judge with too many procedural/paperwork mistakes.

on edit: Reading failure, no divorce agreement. He needs a lawyer.

[madmom]

6. They are/were not divorced. She went down for a visit and decided not to come back.

[TwilightGardener]

24. Well, it sounds like they're definitely about to get one, so there's no way to avoid

getting attorneys involved at this point. In fact, his wife may already have one. Your son needs to protect himself and his custody rights immediately. Good luck, sorry for what happened to him and your grandchildren.

[EFerrari]

5. He can contact the District Attorney's office.

Sometimes they have a unit that handles family conflicts. Usually, battered women use them but they might have something for him.

[steve2470]

8. + 1 nt

[csziggy]

7. I'm afraid he's going to have to find a lawyer

Maybe there is a legal aid group that can help him.

I am not an attorney but I bet he could sue for abandonment and charge her with improper removal of the children - not sure of the legal terms.

If nothing else, check with the state bar association. Most have referral services that allow a consultation for a minimal fee. That will let him talk with an attorney and find out what his options are and how to proceed from here.

If you and your son are in Ohio as indicated in your profile this may help: http://www.ohiobar.org/Pages/staticPageViewer.aspx?articleid=72

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. Not much he can do, but he's not alone.

It ain't fair, but that's life.

Dads get the shitty end of the stick because that's the way society wants it. I think of this and the hundreds of thousands of stories just like it whenever I read anyone going off about male privilege.

[PeaceNikki]

11. The dads' ends of the sticks are no shitter than many moms'

Signed,
Mother of a child with a deadbeat dad who completely abandoned his child physically, emotionally and financially

It's not a contest. There are people who suck. Male/female, moms/dads.... some people just fucking suck.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PeaceNikki]

19. Are you calling *my* account bullshit or are you saying all moms are evil and all dads get screwed?

Or both? I am not following your childish reply.

[FreakinDJ]

21. Signed "Single Father raising 3 sons whose Mom NEVER PAID 1 Dime"

in support

One time "Just for laughs mind you" I called Placer County District Attorney's Office Family Support Div - and they laughed

not kidding

I'll grant you there are injustices on BOTH sides of the equation. But I think there is empirical proof and no argument Mothers have an overwhelming advantage in the courts

[PeaceNikki]

22. So WTF did I write that was bullshit, deej?

Oh, is *YOUR* super-special situation shitter than mine?

[FreakinDJ]

23. your right

I took many Moms to mean any Moms

I guess even after all these years I still wear that chip on my shoulder

my apology

[PeaceNikki]

26. People who abandon kids or keep them from a parent are all awful.

It's not the financial part that fucked us up as much as the emotional abandonment. Trying to repair the damage that has done to my kid is the most painful thing I have been through. Trying to help a kid with no siblings to share it with deal with not feeling loved by a parent is heart-wrenching. No court or county DA or social service could have helped.

Some people fucking suck. :(

[FreakinDJ]

28. Drug Addicted Parents have definitely Abandoned their Children

So Sad - Sacramento County and Placer County California CPS unofficial policy Drug Use / Abuse NOT exclusionary to parenting abilities.

[emilyg]

17. You speak for my daughter.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. In the short term, I would have him google "fathers rights groups".

In quotes. I did and got over 1.9 million hits. I'd be willing to bet that within that group of results is at least one that offers free advice and even possibly free assistance.

Hope this helps and Best of Luck to your Son.

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. He needs a lawyer

and while the children may well be the primary concern they should not be his only concern. He needs to get a separation agreement that details child custody, child visitation and financial agreements.

[madmom]

15. A little more background. This "mother" has already lost custody of two

kids from a previous marriage. She is in her 30's won't get a GED, won't get a driver's license. Had a job at McDonalds but quit because it was "beneath" her. She is a drama queen, she does nothing all day but watch soaps and play on the internet. My son works, cleans house, cooks everything the oldest daughter, who is 8 doesn't or can't do.

[FreakinDJ]

16. OK - here is what to do

Hock every thing he can lay his hands on - Got to have $3000 to hire an attorney just to get started.

have him email me

[Horse with no Name]

25. Okay as bad as this sounds

the judge will say to your son "you married her knowing this".

Divorce/custody sucks. Really bad. And sometimes it turns you into someone you don't even like. I know this firsthand. Good luck.

[madmom]

33. Well actually he didn't know it. She was working when they started dating,

she had custody of one child and her mom was raising the other one because she was having financial issues. After they got married, all this other stuff came to light.

[sendero]

18. Since in most if not all states.

.... men's rights when it comes to children are practically non-existent, I doubt if there is much he can do.

[Horse with no Name]

20. Residency generally is establishd in 90 days.

If I were him, I would go to a lawyer and file for custody.

The first one that files gets to choose jurisdiction...she can't do it for 90 days, since it has only been 30, he would have the advantage.

There would be a hearing and she would have to return the children to the jurisdiction of the court.

Now, if he does nothing, she will file where she is and he will have to fight it there...as well as if she wins, he will lose any geographical restriction (usually 180 miles) that he might get if she were to gain custody.

[FreakinDJ]

29. Your thinking along the right lines

Residency times depend on the jurisdiction

Recognition of Family Law orders depend on the jurisdiction

Yes - he has an uphill fight on his hands

[Horse with no Name]

36. It also depends on how much money the father and his family have

especially if the mother does not have money.

[rug]

27. Go to the county courthouse and make sure he files the right form for custody.

http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/JCS/CFC/DRForms/Affidavit5.pdf

His place of residence should still be the home state of the children and thar court should exercise jurisdiction.

[madmom]

30. I just found this, does anyone know anything about this?.....

Should a parent need to relocate, the court will continue to use the “best interests” standard in determining where the child will go. There are federal laws that prohibit a parent from simply taking a child and moving without consent of the court or the other parent.
http://resources.lawinfo.com/en/Legal-FAQs/fathers-rights/Federal/what-happens-to-custody-when-one-parent-needs.html

[Waiting For Everyman]

31. Legal Aid takes some custody cases.

Have him call the bureau in the other state, and then his own. After that, look for "Pro Bono" groups.

Hope it works out ok. What a shock for him to get, that's awful.

Hang in there though. Chin up.

[ljm2002]

32. Your son absolutely needs legal advice...

...whether it is from a legal aid group or the DA's office. As others have pointed out, it looks like a divorce is in his future, so there will be legal issues to deal with. Furthermore, he does have rights as a father and he needs to establish early on that he intends to pursue those rights. Don't for a minute let feelings of helplessness take over, for him or for you. Start by searching the Web for resources in your state, you may also be able to find out a lot about what his paternal rights are in your state. They are still married, so her moving out of state doesn't meant that much IMO.

Money is part of it, but he does have rights to see his children. It takes active legal action to remove those rights, and he would have to be at fault in some way.

Best of luck to you and to him!

[madmom]

34. Thanks everyone , there are a lot of good suggestions here. I'll give them to him.

[Coyote_Bandit]

35. Ya Know

It is possible that your son could unintentionally do a lot of harm to his case by trying to represent himself. You should not count on a court excusing his innocent mistakes at a later date.

Attorneys who know the law often find that they lack the objectivity and emotional distance required to adequately prosecute their own interests in court.

It is not likely that your son has the objectivity, the legal skill and knowledge or the time to adequately represent his interests.

Many attorneys do free initial consultations. Some negotiate fees. Some accept payments. Some are willing to barter. Some will accept the wedding ring as a down payment. Some will take on some clients and causes without fees. I personally know lawyers that have made some rather creative fee arrangements.

Your son can't afford not to get legal counsel. He can begin by checking to see if he can get representation through legal aid. If not then he can check with any ocal law schools to see if he can get representation there through some of their practicum programs.

[Horse with no Name]

37. We paid in excess of $25k in a custody battle

I am guessing that the other side paid in excess of $50k because he had two lawyers (yet refuses to pay his child support on time--he runs 45 days late--to the date).
The one thing to remember is...before embarking in a custody battle...realize that a lot of money is going to be spent. We would have lost with a legal aid attorney--as ours went to jury since he lost every hearing prior to the final--they figured they would play on the sympathy of the jury since it didn't work on the judge.
We probably paid an extra $10k to undo damage done to our own case because emotions got in the way.
It is best...to get the best attorney that you can afford from the start. There is a lot of stuff that can't be undone if it is done improperly.

[LWolf]

38. You definitely need a lawyer.

I'll also mention that when there is no custody agreement, the parent who currently has physical possession of the children is considered to have custody.

I've been there and done that with my grandson. My son couldn't afford a lawyer, either. I paid for it, and we were eventually successful.