Foreigners just don’t ‘get’ Norway

[riverwalker]

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/07/28/foreigners-just-dont-get-norway/comment-page-1/

Foreigners just don’t ‘get’ Norway

July 28, 2011

NEWS ANALYSIS: Sympathy for Norwegians who have lived through a violent nightmare in recent days has streamed in from around the world, but so has criticism of Norway in foreign media. As Norwegians tried to return to some form of normalcy nearly a week after two terrorist attacks, many were puzzled by the foreign journalists’ criticism and felt they’d once again been misunderstood.

....."This is a country where it’s not at all unusual to hear its citizens say that they “pay their taxes with joy,” because they’re keen to spread the wealth and know that they can get a lot back in return, from free university tuition to total coverage of all hospitalization costs."

[wtmusic]

1. My Norwegian BIL says police usually don't carry guns

This is completely outside the realm of Norwegian experience.

[The Doctor.]

38. Where people are taken care of, they tend to be less violent.

That's a big giant, "No Shit".

... Unless you're a teabagger moron. Then you believe that eliminating social nets eliminates those that need them. Sad that the reality shows that eliminating social nets augments the illegal gun culture.

[arbusto_baboso]

2. Paying taxes with joy.

Now THAT is true patriotism.

Too bad the fucking 'baggers are too self-ceneterd to ever understand that truth.

[Lorien]

37. I've always found it odd that most Americans feel that "giving one's life for one's country"

via military service is the highest form of Patriotism, yet they object to "giving one's WEALTH for one's Country." We're expected to believe that our lives aren't worth as much as our bank accounts, apparently.

[lyonn]

42. It's too bad that the wealthy get richer during a war

Interesting how corporations are considered people,according to our supreme court, and we buy stocks in people?? Yet those corp people make billions? "Our" politicians bow down to these corporate "people" who never spill a drop of blood for the system that makes them rich and powerful.......

[fujiyama]

40. I'd pay taxes happily

if I knew I was getting a lot more in return - adequate health care I would have even if I lost a job (though I think their societies do more to help one find a job considering their unemployment rates are pretty low), mass transit that allowed me to get most places I'd need, an infrastructure that isn't crumbling, funding all the way through college...I could go on.

I'd pay my taxes happily if I knew it wasn't going to subsidize the lifestyle of rich oil tycoons, and fund a behemoth arms industry that simply makes people in other countries want to kill us.

But, as it stands now - I'd say out of all Western countries we get the least in return for our taxes.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. I would pay my taxes with joy if the rich and corporations would be made to pay taxes nt

[musette_sf]

19. + 1

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. It seems to be human nature to judge others and find them wanting. :^( I guess

this goes for entire nations as well as individuals.

[hifiguy]

5. Norway has a mature, well-educated and progressive society.

No wonder so many - including many 'murkans - just don't get them.

In a sane world, Norway would be the shining example that others aspire to.

[sendero]

7. +1000

.. and this applies to several other Scandinavian countries as well.

[Tesha]

27. There only are two other "several other" Scandinavian countries ;-).

But yes it applies to Denmark and Sweden too, and also
to Finland, the fourth "Nordic" country.

They are all far more-civilized places than here and Murkins
don't get that/them at all.

Tesha

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Their tourist boards put Iceland in as well

http://www.goscandinavia.com/usa/en-us/menu/scandinavia/scandinavian-region/scandinavia/scandinavia.htm

[sendero]

31. Finland..

.. is not Scandanavia? Ok, well my geography needs some work.

[Tesha]

33. Seriously, it depends who you ask.

Different groups have different ideas of what constitutes "Scandinavia"
although they're more consistent about what constitutes "The Nordic
Countries".

Tesha

[WorseBeforeBetter]

8. I'd move in a heartbeat...but easier said than done. (n/t)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

11. Did you see the wailing and gnashing of teeth about the flat-screen TVs?

And the 21-year maximum sentence? (Which isn't quite the maximum, but the eurohaters conveniently omit that fact even when they know it.)

[hifiguy]

20. Oh gads yes.

I really expect more from DUers but am disappointed by the Conservadems and DLCers on a regular basis. Getting their knickers all atwist over the prison policies of a far better and wiser society than ours.

[gratuitous]

6. Actually, Norway "gets it" in a way the United States never has and maybe never will

And it seems to me to be the height of arrogance for us in the United States to try to dictate to Norwegians how to deal with this terrorist attack. We have a horrible record that way: Why do we feel like we have anything to offer them? "You should bleed your Treasury white with a bunch of futile violent actions that just kill more people and make your country a pariah in the international community! What's the matter with you that you don't want to do that?"

[Karenina]

9. Amis aren't real good at seeing others' perspectives

or taking the time to understand of what they speak, even if they do so in Englisch! I do so trust the Norwegians. On their own terms.

[lapislzi]

10. What, are they mad 'cause Norway didn't immediately start a war?

'Cause that's what you're supposed to do after a terrorist attack, right? Better yet, start three wars!

:sarcasm:

But seriously, *I* pay my taxes, if not joyfully, calmly, sensibly, and on time. My greatest wish is for others to do the same, and in "fair share" amounts.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. No, for that they are glad.

Because it would be a war against blond, blue-eyed people.

[lapislzi]

25. Piffle!

You don't start the war against the people who attacked you, silly! Especially if you have a...business relationship with them. Norway was supposed to attack Venezuela, or Togo, or someplace like that. Someplace that had nothing at all to do with the attack.

You need to read up on Modern Wars of Non Sequitir.

[lapislzi]

26. Delete, dupe

[krabigirl]

13. I respect Norway..I have long wanted to visit the country and hope to one day.

[riverwalker]

18. krabigirl, if you go to Norway

if you can, take a trip on Hurtigruten ship. It is a big ship, NOT a cruise ship, a working ship, the lifeline along the coast. There is wonderful food, astoundingly beautiful scenery, it is quiet and peaceful. Can go from Bergen as far as you want, up to Kirkenes and back. You can make your own itinerary, see each port. Very nice, and don't be afraid to go alone.

[Shagbark Hickory]

14. The comments are most interesting!!!

[MrScorpio]

15. I've noticed that the comments section has been invaded by professional trolls

Who are deriding the Norwegian way of life.

These people never stop

[bikebloke]

16. I worked in Norway backin 1979.

As a guest farm worker in the west. Towards the end of my time they sent me to a doctor for an obligatory TB test - they'd forgotten to send me at the start. Didn't cost a thing. At the time, Oslo seemed to roll up its sidewalks after dark. Scandinavia's nice, but I think the winters would get to me withe dark and cold.

[War Horse]

17. Norway's changed a LOT since 79 :)

I'm Norwegian, and if I were transported back in time to Norway anno 1979 I'd probably be bored out of my mind :).

OP: Interesting article. I could always find things to disagree with, but on the whole I think it's a useful summary. Especially the thing about some (not all) of the foreign media.

It's been weird watching the Police press conferences live on Norwegian TV, and watch, for example, Sky News afterwards, thinking "did they really watch the same press conference as I did? The police said nothing like that"...

[arundhatiroyfan]

21. I hope the progressive convinctions of the Norwegians spread to other countries, too nt.

[dana_b]

22. I think most of the foreigners on this board "get it"

The idea of all people having healthcare, being treated with dignity & respect, having a low unemployment rate, young adults being able to attend university - if they so choose, and a good deal of time off to enjoy life seems rational, humane and, well, foreign.

[WinkyDink]

23. Been to Norway to Bergen and back; Sweden; Denmark; and all points south in Europe. There is no

question, they know how to live, how to maintain a decent society, how to have civilized pedestrian-only areas, how to eat great food, and how to run health-care that is for the citizens and not corporations.

However, doing the above is easier when a nation is basically homogeneous and small-ish, with no military to speak of to sustain.

[Juche]

35. That is the major draw

Norway is culturally and racially homogeneous, so plutocratic interests can't use divide and conquer tactics like they have done so well in the US where we have so many divisions among those lines (religion, race, sexuality) to use to push authoritarian government and plutocracy.

That is my understanding of partly why new england is so much more progressive than the south, no major racial divisions to divide people and make people 'tough on crime' and hate the welfare state.

It would be a gigantic shame if immigration from Africa and the middle east causes major cultural divisions in Europe that are exploited by plutocratic interests. But I wouldn't be surprised.

[Shanti Mama]

39. I think immigration is one of the root causes of the tragedy.

Norway is no longer "pure." The country is taking Bhutanese refugees, for example, (ethnic Nepalis kicked out of Bhutan 20+ years ago) in addition to sharing the influx of eastern Europeans and Africans with the rest of Europe.

[fujiyama]

41. The main issue really comes from those ethnic groups trying to impose their values

on the rest of society. I think the Nordic and Dutch societies have been very tolerant over the last several decades, but it's obvious that these small and liberal, but densely populated countries are especially having trouble absorbing immigrants with conservative (or should I just say backwards) social values (hostile to women's rights and gay rights for example).

I've never understood why someone would emigrate somewhere and not make their best effort to assimilate into that country's social fabric - by which I mean making a strong effort to learn the language, find a job, support their family, yet retain their religious and cultural traits to some extent, while understanding that those traits are their's and their's alone, not to be forced on the rest of their adopted homeland - as well as understanding that their own values should never conflict with the laws of their new home (meaning no genital mutilation, no honor killings, no domestic violence, and no imposing and forcing of women to be faceless and disguised property).

Perhaps the leaders of those countries accepted these people, but there was discrimination by the native population? I couldn't say for sure, since I'm not familiar with the state of immigrants in these countries. I know these rifts have occurred throughout Europe though. I find it interesting though that North America (and arguably Canada better than the US) does a better job of absorbing immigrants. It may just be the history of the continent itself, though even still the countries have their own history of hostility (know nothings, Chinese exclusion, etc).

[white_wolf]

24. I really need to check out their immigration policies.

It seems such a sane country. It would be nice to live somewhere sane for once.

[lapislzi]

30. I wish I didn't hate cold weather.

Warm weather...Ikea...warm weather...Ikea...

(yes, I know Ikea's Swedish. I'd go there, too, if I could).

[white_wolf]

32. I've heard one of the Nordic countries has very strict immigration policies.

I can't remember which one he lived in(I think Denmark, but someone on another forum said a far right party gained a lot of seats in parliament and has really cracked down on immigration, though they tended to focus on people from non-white countries.

[Yavin4]

29. Civilized People DO Get Norway n/t

[Juche]

34. A lot of criticism I've seen revolves around how rehabilitative the justice system is

Which I think is sad. Their recidivism rate is about 1/3 of ours.

I should've been born in Norway.

[Raine]

36. My grandparents came from Norway, I still have relatives there, a couple years ago

some cousins visited here. They were shocked at the waste here, how every thing has to be super-sized. I guess many American's think people who visit here are impressed by the "largeness" of it all, the bigger is better, the expensive it better, too much is not enough. My relatives were not impressed, they were overwhelmed and not in a good way. They were glad to go back to Norway ... I didn't blame them.