I think that there's mounting evidence that Lougner's motive was

[cali]

tied in to his obsession/delusion with the gov't controlling us through grammar and language:

<snip>

Former friends have recounted that Loughner had a fixation for grammar and words, saying that he challenged Giffords at a previous public meeting with the impenetrable question: "What is government if words have no meaning?"

In one of his video diatribes posted on the internet, he said: "The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar. You control your English grammar structure."

Some reports have connected this with the arguments of David Wynn Miller – or as he styles himself, Judge David-Wynn: Miller – whose near-impenetrable, capital letter-heavy website expounds the notion that grammar is used to control the populace, and that by inserting colons or hyphens into your name you can escape taxable status by becoming a "prepositional phrase".

While a small number of defendants have previously sought, without success, to use Wynn Miller's methods to defend themselves against tax avoidance charges, he has until now remained largely unknown outside of far-right US circles. His name was connected to the Loughner inquiry when an official from the Southern Poverty Law Centre, which monitors extremist groups, told US television that it seemed Loughner had been "getting some of his key ideas from David Wynn Miller".

Wynn Miller claims to have 1 billion adherents worldwide. In interviews he agreed that he and Loughner shared beliefs on grammar and that it was possible that the latter had read his website. But he dismissed as "ridiculous" the idea that this could have inspired the mass shooting. There is no evidence thus far that Loughner knew of Wynn Miller or his beliefs.

Former friends of Loughner have noted his apparent obsession with grammar but only as one part of a wider pattern of erratic and confrontational behaviour. This included the stated belief that his former college was illegal under the US constitution, the space shuttle missions were faked, and the September 11 attacks were staged by the government, and the claim that the world we see does not actually exist.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/10/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-grammar-extremist

<snip>

Tierney, who's also 22, recalls Loughner complaining about a Giffords event he attended during that period. He's unsure whether it was the same one mentioned in the charges—Loughner "might have gone to some other rallies," he says—but Tierney notes it was a significant moment for Loughner: "He told me that she opened up the floor for questions and he asked a question. The question was, 'What is government if words have no meaning?'"
"He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question.' Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."

Giffords' answer, whatever it was, didn't satisfy Loughner. "He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question,' and I told him, 'Dude, no one's going to answer that,'" Tierney recalls. "Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."

<snip>

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

not saying that there weren't other influences, just noting this.

[RainDog]

1. his instability found rationales in right wing extremist hate

in the very same sorts of extremism that is part of the tea party movement.

Storm front attended tea bagger rallies for recruits and to "get the message out."

And Republicans cheered the tea baggers for their actions, like spitting on Congress people and breaking out the glass at Giffords' office.

[cali]

3. I don't think he was merely unstable.

I think he was/is frankly psychotic.

[leveymg]

2. I believe his motive was political, he's a Right-wing extremist, and it was an assassination.

We can debate the particulars about his mental illness and political delusions, but those are the essential facts.

[cali]

4. no, that's not fact, anymore than my speculation is fact.

It's opinion. Nothing wrong with opinion but it ain't fact.

[leveymg]

5. What were my first two words?

I can draw my conclusions about the facts, and you can yours. Please do not deny the obvious that this was a political assassination. That's what he's being charged with. If you want to employ some frame of reference other than legality, that's fine. But it doesn't exclude the fact that this was a political crime.

I certainly hope you don't deny that it was a political crime, and that his motive was ideologically Right-wing.

[cali]

7. I am speaking in legal terms.

I'd bet almost anything the defense will be insanity. You'd have to be a shit terrible attny not to use that as the defense.

And yes, it was obviously a political assassination but what the motive was is not clear.

[leveymg]

12. In legal terms, Assassination of a Federal Official, multiple murder, and lesser charges.

Yes, I agree his defense team will fall back on an Insanity Plea. I will also give you 1,000,000-to-one odds a jury will find him guilty as charged.

As for his motive, based on what I've read, it's mixed political and personal. My armchair diagnosis is he presents as a paranoid with multiple personality disorders. He appears to have an acute sense of persecution, perhaps aggravated by substance abuse.

Nonetheless, I'll bet the prosecution convinces a jury that he was aware of his actions.

[cali]

19. oh I don't think the odds are nearly that high

[Gaedel]

9. Any killing of a public figure is an assassination

Unless you can tie it to a motive such as robbery or domestic violence reasons (the senator was banging my wife).

In this case, the attack was made solely because Rep Giffords was a congress person so it is an assassination (attempted in her case if she, God willing, lives).

As for political motives, this guy seemed to be all over the map. He had a smorgasbord of hangups right, left, anarchic, and libertarian.

[leveymg]

14. His politics are not that unusual on the Libertarian Right

From what I've picked up, his reading and positive references are to Rand and other extreme libertarians, mixed with a posse commitas type of hostility to the federal government. His source obsession with control of language is based on the writings of obscure sources, who are themselves extreme Right-wing. His reading of Hitler may have been laudatory, but if he read Marx, more of a "know-thine-enemy" sort of acquaintance.

None of this makes him even remotely Left-wing in my opinion.

[Gaedel]

27. From some reports he was a 9-11 'truther"

Adding that into his overall nuttiness indicates sort of a more "left" view.

This guy was a loner grabbing onto anything trying to give his life meaning.

My first wife had an uncle that way but into religion instead of violence.

He was certain that if he just found the right religious philosophy, he would become rich financially without having to work. He tried everything, Christian and non-Christian, over the years finally ending up in Scientology before his death. Truly a sad case, college educated, but never holding a real permanent job because he spent all of his time dabbling in religion to become rich.

[JoePhilly]

21. I would call it a "windup" assassination.

You spend a few years stoking the anger and the fears, winding up the crazies, then you watch what happens.

BTW .... this killer called his action "My Assassination"

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2280655/

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. I agree

He was a right winger who had a mental illness.

[stray cat]

6. One would think we would not be so selective on the mass murderers we defend or condemn

[cali]

8. I'm not quite getting what you're saying with that comment

in any case, I'm certainly not defending him.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Heidi]

10. I think Loughner's mental condition perhaps made him easily manipulable

be people too gutless to do the dirty work themselves. Maybe he knew right from wrong when he shot all those folks in Arizona, but that wouldn't necessarily mean he wasn't mentally ill or that he wasn't manipulated by the fear mongers (for example, the Palins, Becks, Limbaughs and David Wynn Millers) in our culture.

Imagine a disordered mind attempting to parse not only the realities of everyday life, but also the scary, fear-based, fictional "they're out to get us" crap the right is spewing.

[The_Commonist]

11. It's interesting how so many people...

...who are obsessed with grammar and other such language issues are so bad at it themselves.

Also, he should have been/we should be MUCH more concerned with corporate co-opting of language than anything "the government" is doing...

[udbcrzy2]

13. Mentally ill does not = insanity

I think he's just evil. His defense will have to prove that he was insane and I doubt that will happen.
Motive? The prosecutor does not have to prove motive. I guess they will upgrade those charges from 2-cts
1st degree murder to however many he killed.

[DemReadingDU]

15. We really don't know for sure

What does the media propaganda want us to believe what happened?

[liberalmuse]

16. It's weird how insane people...

are automatically drawn to right wing "ideology". They tend to blend in.

[bullwinkle428]

17. I still have to wonder why he targeted Giffords specifically.

[cali]

18. did you read the op?

[bullwinkle428]

22. First of all, I wouldn't have replied if I didn't read it, and

second of all, the explanation points more toward a personal beef he seemed to imagine he had with her, rather than some kind of over-arching philosophy involving government and language on some kind of grand scale.

[Fla_Democrat]

23. When I think of proper grammar and correct spelling

Oh yea, I think Tea Party. :rofl:

Maybe the 'Morans' guy was his handler. He would get secret messages, coded in crayon, with the R's reversed... :rofl:


What a piece of work...

"This included the stated belief that his former college was illegal under the US constitution,"

yea, right.. :rofl:

the space shuttle missions were faked,

sure.... shot on a sound stage in Hollywood... :rofl:

and the September 11 attacks were staged by the government,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125">Uhm :hide:

and the claim that the world we see does not actually exist.

I'm willing to bet the world he saw didn't exist... now, the rest of us seem to have a handle on reality. :rofl:




:smoke:

[Barack_America]

24. And yet he didn't act for 3 years.

[ClassWarrior]

25. "What is government if words have no meaning?" Sounds like the lefty-haters around here.

"Just what does progressive mean, really??"

:crazy:

NGU.

[starroute]

26. I've been wondering about that "faked space missions" aspect

There is a whole subset of right-wing conspiracy theories that revolves around the idea that NASA is a Masonic conspiracy and that the space missions are not only fake but designed to send coded Masonic messages. The person most associated with these ideas is Richard Hoagland, who has recently been pushing the idea of some kind of "NASA Kennedy Obama Connection to 2012." 2012, of course, was another Loughner obsession, at least according to that high school classmate.

So it kind of all fits together, at least in terms of the kind of conspiracy theory material Loughner was apparently encountering. But what makes it really interesting is that Giffords' husband is an astronaut. So is his twin brother, who is currently on the international space station. And the two of them had been scheduled to be in space together next month for the first time.

That's the sort of thing that could play into the fantasies of somebody who sees occult symbolism everywhere. At the very least, I suspect Loughner was aware of it and that it made him believe Giffords was not merely a Democratic member of Congress but was "in on" some high-level conspiracy.


http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/aug/HQ_M10-112_Twins_Tweet.html

For the first time, twin brothers are slated to be in space simultaneously early next year. Mark Kelly will be in command of the last scheduled space shuttle flight, and Scott Kelly in command of the International Space Station.

The Kelly brothers will be available for live satellite interviews between 9:15 and 11:15 a.m. CDT Tuesday, Aug. 17. Scott Kelly is scheduled to launch to the space station aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan on Oct. 7 (Oct. 8 local time) for a six-month-long mission aboard the complex. He will serve as flight engineer for Expedition 25 and commander for Expedition 26.

His twin brother Mark, commander of shuttle Endeavour's STS-134 mission, is scheduled to visit the station in February to deliver supplies and the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer. AMS is a device to study the universe's origin by searching for antimatter, dark matter, strange matter and measuring cosmic rays. If the launch schedule holds, the pair would be working together in orbit for eight days before the shuttle undocks and returns to Earth.

[Jester Messiah]

28. Sometimes batshit crazy is just batshit crazy.

I think the prevalence of violent right-wing rhetoric just provided him with an ever-present exacerbation of his lunacy and informed his choice of targets. To me, the real question is: without the 24/7 hate-fest, would he have shot anyone at all? If so, whom would he have shot?

[bemildred]

30. Being angry, obsessive, and delusional is not the same thing as being mad. nt

[devilgrrl]

31. If he's concerned about language, perhaps he should have targeted Frank Luntz.

As far as I'm concerned that clown's list of pejorative terms for Liberals that he created for Newt Gingrich back in the late 80's should be held as an example of conservative vitriol.