Social Security is not Part of Government Spending!

[sabrina 1]

As the battle over Raising the Debt Ceiling rages on with demands to cut 'Government Spending' I'm not hearing much about the actual causes of the debt we are now in, such as the Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy and the totally ourgrageously wasteful Pentagon Budget and the multiple wars we are now spending money on.

But it's making people very nervous that we do keep hearing about Social Security as if it had something to do with the problem.

Social Security is not part of Government Spending. So why do they keep talking about it right now?

For example, last night I watched Alan Simpson on CNN, introduced, unbelievabley, as 'a reasonable voice in DC' lie blatantly about Social Security. Not once was he corrected as he, once again, misled viewers into believing that cuts to SS are needed to reduce the debt. No effort was made to stop him.

In case anyone has forgotten, Simpson was appointed to the Deficit Commission by President Obama. Why someone who has zero understanding of programs like Social Security or how they work, was given this position, remains a mystery. Here's an example, for those who missed it, of Simpson's understanding of Social Security eg:



Alan Simpson: Social Security Is 'A Milk Cow With 310 Million Tits

"I've made some plenty smart cracks about people on Social Security who milk it to the last degree. You know 'em too...We've reached a point now where it's like a milk cow with 310 million tits!"

After this outburst, only one of many insulting statements from him about America's 'lesser people', thousands of calls, from organizations, individuals and members of Congress were made to remove him from the Commission. But the WH refused to do so.

Now he's back on TV, presented as a respected member of the President's Deficit Commission, giving his 'expert' opinions on what needs to be done about the Deficit and, predictably, never fails to mention Social Security together with the words 'Debt', 'Deficit' and 'Government Spending'.

Any cuts to Social Security will only INCREASE Government Spending.

Any cuts to Social Security, including no adjustments for inflation, will only add money to the Social Security Fund.

That money will then be borrowed again by the Fed. Government which will RAISE the debt.

I hope no one in the Democratic Party has agreed to any cuts, now or in the future, to Social Security.

If anything, Social Security Benefits should be raised right now. That would be one of the best ways to stimulate the economy as that money would be spent by the recipients.

People do not like to be lied to and this is one of the biggest and most egregious lies that has been told throughout this debate on the Deficit.

HANDS OFF SOCIAL SECURITY

Make your elected representatives in Washington know how you feel. You can find their addresses, and instructions on sending them email, at http://www.contactingthecongress.org/. The FAQ at that site has some good tips on how to write an email or letter. After emailing, consider sending a letter, or calling or visiting your representatives – this has an even-greater impact than email.

Vote smart. Remember, those who are trying to take Social Security’s savings are trying to make the cuts seem small, reasonable, and bipartisan, when in reality the current proposal will reduce average lifetime benefits by more than $50,000. Know where your elected representatives stand on this issue, and reward them appropriately come election day.

Finally, we must recognize that Social Security’s future is based on America’s entire economic future. If the American economy does just as well in the future as it has in the past, then Social Security will be fine. Those who claim that Social Security is in trouble are basing it on the prediction of a new, much-slower economy stretching on into the future. They are telling us that America’s best economic days are over, and that we are sinking into second-class status. I don’t believe that, and I hope you don’t either.

Emphasis mine.

Capitol Hill Switchboard: [phone]

And if you call your Representatives, please tell them to STOP LYING ABOUT SS!

[woo me with science]

1. K&R Cannot remind people of this often enough.

What a breathtaking scam and theft this all is.

[sabrina 1]

17. I just saw a headline on CNN

'Apocalypse looming' or something to that effect. Scary headline! And if people become scared enough they will accept things they would normally not accept.

I am really thinking this whole charade is what Naomi Klein talked about in Shock Doctrine. Either take advantage of a real disaster or create one to get policies put forward that normally people would not accept.

If there are cuts to the Social Programs, then I will be convinced that's what this was all about.

[Kaleko]

30. I share that view.

It's another false flag attack perpetrated on unsuspecting Americans. Only this time, it's financial terrorism.

In spite of all the evidence, I still hope I'm wrong and that they won't go through with this insanely myopic plot.

[sabrina 1]

33. It's hard not to see it that way.

See suffragette's post #28 below. It has a lot of information about what went on at the G20 talks this year. It's hard to read that and not believe that IS all planned. Here's something from Obama back then:

Even if -- the financial crisis made it much worse, but even if we had not gone through this financial crisis, we’d still have to be dealing with these long-term deficit problems. They have to do with Medicaid; they have to do with Medicare; they have to do with Social Security. They have to do with a series of structural problems that are not unique to America. Some of it has to do with an aging population. And we’ve got to look at a tax system that is messy and unfair in a whole range of ways.

He directly and falsely connects SS to the deficit there. But even worse, he minimizes the effect that the Financial Meltdown, caused by corruption made possible by deregulation, on our current situation. He is claiming it would have been as bad, just delayed, if all the crime and corruption had NOT taken place. Unbelievable!

No wonder the DOJ is not even trying to investigate, what Sen. Levin's committee said was serious corruption and criminal activity by the Mortgage industry. They did a bi-partisan two year investigation into the financial meltdown and recommended their findings to the DOJ. But so far, nothing is being done about it that I know of. They are covering for the biggest bank heist in the history of the world, it seems. And Obama claiming it really had little to do with the conditions we are now facing, is just mind-boggling.

[Kaleko]

35. When you lay out the facts

and string them up as lucidly as in that post, I feel a dreadful sense of recognition. As much as I don't want this to be true, we are looking at the awful truth - and there is a certain strength in that.

:grouphug:

[sabrina 1]

43. That's how I felt when I read it too.

Sometimes it's better to accept the truth and then go from there, rather than living in 'hope' waiting for 'change'.

[Marnie]

46. Each of the ecoomic crisis since 2000 has been planned

and perfectly executed and the Democrats have lain down and let them happen.

[sabrina 1]

49. Corruptiion and unregulated markets didn't help either.

And it is true that Democrats, a Dem President, and his cabinet, helped remove the protections that had kept this country safe from the greed and rampant corruption that has ravaged this country's treasury ever since.

[truedelphi]

52. I have only made it two thirds of the way through the "Shock Doctrine"

Video.

Apparently, if history is to be believed, any nation that adopts the Milton Friedman 'Free Market 'Capitalism'" mode of operation needs either:

One: a full fledged junta
or else:

Two: a mafia extensive enough, like the one operating in Russia

To keep order and control over the suffering population.

This nation will not be any different.

If we had some politicians of the caliber of past Democratic Presidents, such as JFK, and especially needed right now, FDR, we would be in good shape.

But the current President lets the other side determine the terms of the engagement and then his negotiating skills are indeed as Tom Tomorrow described in his "MiddleMan" Cartoon.

[Fire Walk With Me]

2. I'm on SS disability insurance, and I need it.

If I understand correctly, "cutting" SS payments is akin to them taking money from it to pay other things. Literally stealing my money, that I worked for and contributed to the system, to support the people who helped GE avoid taxes altogether.

[sabrina 1]

5. Yes, any cuts they make will be used to continue

funding their wars and whatever else they've spending money on. I was going to say that I don't think any cuts would affect you right now, but then I rememberd, you've already had cuts, disguised as no increase for inflation for the past two years.

It is unconscionable that they would take money from those who need it most and who earned it. I really am sorry. I hope they don't do it, but I think they will. We are helpless it seems, to stop them.

[Fire Walk With Me]

8. Hmmph. Well, fucking fuckity fuck. Thanks for the info.

[glinda]

3. links do not work for contacts for me. Will try another way.

[sabrina 1]

4. Sorry it doesn't work for you. I just checked it again and the

first one works for me. I've removed the second one, which did not work, but it was just a link to the FAQ part of the same site.

If there's time before the edit time runs out, I'll post some numbers people can call in case it doesn't work of other people. Thanks for letting me know!

[William769]

6. To bad President Obama doesn't know this.

Rec.

[sabrina 1]

19. I think he knows it.

You only have to look at who he had on his Deficit Commission to know what he thinks about the Social Security program. Alan Simpson, Erskine Bowles, and advice for such anti-SS enemies as Pete Petersen and anti-government people, like Grover Norquiest. Would anyone who seriously supported progressive ideas go anywhere near these people for advice?

[William769]

21. Forgive my miss at sarcasm.

[sabrina 1]

32. Oops, my mistake!

Sorrreee! :blush:

[florida08]

7. incredible isn't it

and this from a democratic president. Have written my rep and called. I have an R for the other Senator and an R for my congressman.
I'm screwed. But every petition I sign as many times as I can. Am not on SS yet but it's not about me. Just like it's not about you as to why you have worked so hard to get the truth out. It's about our mom's and dad's,aunts and uncles. It's about the future of the middle class. God help us Sabrina..we still have our vote though. :hi:

Thank you: Will call again. Bernie knows they're lying too

[juajen]

11. I don't think we have our vote. I believe it is being manipulated

as the powers that be see fit.

[sabrina 1]

16. Thank you florida08, for calling and trying.

No, it's not about us, but it's about the most vulnerable people many of whom cannot speak for themselves. And it will be about everyone, in the future. I think it will always be necessary to fight to keep them away from Social Security. That huge fund saved by the American people is just too tempting for the greedy to leave alone.

I view them as armed bank robbers and we are the unarmed guards trying to stop them. If all of elected officials were really working for us, then we would be armed. So, I guess that's what we have to do, support only Progressive Democrats from now on.

[florida08]

9. ~

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.


(am watching Pulp Fiction..lol)

[sabrina 1]

14. Good quote. But I'd like some of the blessings right now!

I WISH someone would 'strike down vengeance and furious anger' on those who are responsible for all this. Seems like it's the good guys and the poor who are being 'stricken' all the time!

Pulp Fiction, it was a fun movie!

[florida08]

15. I hear ya lady and in full agreement

[dkf]

10. So when the trust fund runs out in 2036 will you advocate a 25% drop in benefits?

Or will you ask that general funds be used to pay for benefits?

Will you advocate an increase in the social security tax from 12.4% to 16.4% in 2036? That would mean a person making $20,000 would pay payroll taxes of $3,280 increasing their taxes by $800? And that doesn't include the tax increase needed to cover Medicare.

So if you really want to defend Social Security and Medicare not being part of the budget, is that your convenient opinion until the trust funds run out of money?

[juajen]

12. It is not the ss recipients that mingled our money

with the general fund. Our borrowed money is backed by treasury bonds. Too damn bad that the rich want to steal that money that they have already borrowed and not pay it back. SS funds are owned by the people and have nothing to do with the deficit. Get the damn money from the people that have stolen it, please? Name this what it will be: "The Wheelchair Revolution"

Of course, perhaps that is exactly what they want. We have blown up and shot innocent people all over the world, in the name of fighting terrorism, so what's a few million old people in wheelchairs.

[sabrina 1]

18. 'The Wheelchair Revolution'

Lol, I like that. Someone should organize people on retirement, they have the time to protest and stay there for as long as it takes, and I have a feeling many of them would enjoy doing it.

I totally agree that they should be going after those who stole the money, the corrupt bankers, the mortgage fraudsters, the Wall St. thieves. Instead they are protecting them. It's just disgusting.

[dkf]

36. Those borrowed stolen funds are scheduled to run out.

They aren't perpetual you know.

[Enthusiast]

39. Nice...................nt

[sabrina 1]

13. SS will not run out of money by 2036 ULESS the US essentially

becomes a second or third world country. Unless things go downhill from where we are right now and unemployment continues to decrease over the next two decades. If that were to happen, we would have a lot more to worry about than SS, which is why it's interesting that since that number you produced is BASED on the current bad economic situation, no one mentions anything OTHER than SS were we to continue down this path.

And as far as SS money coming out of the general fund, they borrowed it, of course they have to pay it out of the general fund should it become necessary.

What is my solution? It's very simple:

1) CREATE JOBS
2) Raise the cap on SS taxes
3) End ALL the wars
4) Raise taxes on the wealthy, they are at the lowest level of taxes in sixty years. It's time for them to start contributing to this country.
5) Immediately end the Bush Tax Cuts.
6) End the 'tax holiday. What WAS Obama thinking? Was he trying to destroy SS or something?
7) Cut the Pentagon budget in half and we'd still be spending and wasting too much money.

Just a few of those things would ensure that SS will be good until 2075 at least, with full benefits being out.

[dkf]

37. The SS fund is scheduled to run out in 2036. Kaput. Done. Over. Spent.

How can you complain about the use of the funds by the regular budget if they are technically used up?

[sabrina 1]

44. I love the simplicity of Republican talking points.

So black and white.

But now for the facts. The only way the SS fund is 'used up' is if this country has reached third world status and is now unable to pay any of its creditors.

Is that what you are saying? We cannot pay China, the SS Fund, or any of our other creditors, on bonds that were backed by the 'full faith and credit' of the US Govt??

What you just said would meant the end of the US, which of course is why it is so ridiculous.

Please explain where you got this from, some links would help as this would be a complete disaster if true. I guess you don't understand the significance of that statement, IF it were true. :eyes:

[Rex]

38. Well in all fairness, we are quickly heading for third world status.

People just can stand something that makes money and goes to the working class.

[sabrina 1]

47. Seems that way and considering there are real solutions

that would prevent that, yet are hardly ever mentioned, you have to wonder if it is stupidity or if it's planned. A cheap workforce seems to be big on the agenda of the New World Order crowd.

[suffragette]

20. Keep reminding people and I'll keep giving a K&R

:hi:

[sabrina 1]

24. Hey, suffragette!

I forgot to add the other huge cause of the deficit/debt, the Economic Meltdown caused by the corrupt Wall St. crowd. Where did all that money go? And why is no one looking for it, no one being prosecuted for the corruption discovered by the Senate Commission (I know, that story disappeared almost as soon as it appeared) after two years of investigation. Sen. Levin referred their findings to the DOJ. That's when the Osama Bin Laden story took over the news and everyone forgot the Commission's findings.

[suffragette]

28. Best not to focus on the bulging pockets on Wall Street

while pressing for Austerity and restructuring of social programs for Main Street.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1601665&mesg_id=1607200

[sabrina 1]

31. I just read that excellent post, suffragette.

It is more than interesting to read both Tony Blair's and President Obama's statements. As you pointed out, they are so similar. There IS a grand plan obviously and they intend to spread it all over the world. From Obama:

Even if -- the financial crisis made it much worse, but even if we had not gone through this financial crisis, we’d still have to be dealing with these long-term deficit problems. They have to do with Medicaid; they have to do with Medicare; they have to do with Social Security. They have to do with a series of structural problems that are not unique to America. Some of it has to do with an aging population. And we’ve got to look at a tax system that is messy and unfair in a whole range of ways.

Wow, does he really believe that or is he simply lying? 'Deficits have to do with ..... Social Security'. I would like him to explain that if he could.

I also noticed him referencing the 'difficult decisions some of our European allies are having to make' Boo hoo! Poor, rich babies, imposing 'austerity' on their populations while they get richer and richer.

I assume he was thinking Sarkozy who totally ignored the will of the of the people when they nearly stopped the country from functioning last summer, to let him know how they felt about his 'ideas' for their economy. I am sure much will be done to keep him in his job as he did it so well for the Rulers of the World. Even, maybe, having someone falsely accused of a crime??

And there are people here who think Obama will not cut SS!! I wonder if bookies are taking bets on that? :-)

Edited to add, I can't believe this president is minimizing the role the Financial Meltdown played in the collapse of our economy. According to him, we'd be in this mess anyhow. Is he BLIND? Trillions gone to bail them out. Is he just reading a script?

No wonder nothing is being done to find the perpetrators AND the money they stole.

[suffragette]

34. The changing of current structure of social programs and government's role is a theme

running through all these statements and austerity policy proposals.

As far as I can tell each country's politicians that have accepted this have done it against the expressed will of its citizens.

And it cuts across traditional political ideology.

The paragraph about Social Security comes directly after one about the "fiscal commission." The process of forming that was clearly connected to his statement about Social Security and Medicare.

And similar to other austerity plans, the financiers who played such a large role in creating this mess get let off easy - just the one statement that other countries changes "might involve passing financial regulatory reforms" followed by cautions against making markets "skittish."

Seems like too big to fail is also too big to try to regulate.



Here's another recent instance of "restructuring" in an OP from marmar:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1609700

Spain is still in “the danger zone” and must keep up momentum in restructuring its economy to stave off contagion from Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis, the International Monetary Fund said.

“The outlook is difficult and the risks elevated,” the Washington-based IMF said in a report yesterday after a visit by staff to Spain. “The policy agenda remains challenging and urgent -- there can be no let up in the reform momentum.”

[sabrina 1]

42. "there can be no let up in the reform momentum.”

And as you said, the theme running through the 'policies' of these 'reformers' always includes Social Programs.

I don't get it really. Why do they want to take these safety nets for the most vulnerable people? Aren't they making enough money as it is without dipping their corrupt fingers into the already insufficient funds of the poorest people in all of these countries?

It's as if they want to turn 1st world countries into 2nd or 3rd world countries, creating cheap work forces now, not just in S. America and Asia but in Europe and the US also. I can see no other purpose for it, and imo they are ideologues, zealots and real threat to the world. They also seem, like Tony Blair to become quite 'religious' when they join the New World Order.

And you are right that every decision made to align with these policies was overwhelmingly rejected by the citizens of the respective countries, Greece, France, Italy, Spain. But the people appear to have completely lost control of their democracies.

[suffragette]

48. For the "pain caucus" it looks to be all about pleasing the financiers

which clearly comes at the expense of the citizens' needs. Disaster capitalism on steroids, with a restructuring which is a tearing down of public structures put in place over generations to be replaced by a privatized system that benefits only a few.

Krugman wrote a great article about this, but since it was before this debt ceiling theater's bipartisan direction of austerity, he focused on Europe:


When Austerity Fails
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: May 22, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/23/opinion/23krugman.html

In Europe, by contrast, the pain caucus has been in control for more than a year, insisting that sound money and balanced budgets are the answer to all problems. Underlying this insistence have been economic fantasies, in particular belief in the confidence fairy — that is, belief that slashing spending will actually create jobs, because fiscal austerity will improve private-sector confidence.

~~~

What to do? European leaders offered emergency loans to nations in crisis, but only in exchange for promises to impose savage austerity programs, mainly consisting of huge spending cuts. Objections that these programs would be self-defeating — not only would they impose large direct pain, but they also would, by worsening the economic slump, reduce revenues — were waved away. Austerity would actually be expansionary, it was claimed, because it would improve confidence.

~~~

Nobody bought into the doctrine of expansionary austerity more thoroughly than Jean-Claude Trichet, the president of the European Central Bank, or E.C.B. Under his leadership the bank began preaching austerity as a universal economic elixir that should be imposed immediately everywhere, including in countries like Britain and the United States that still have high unemployment and aren’t facing any pressure from the financial markets.

But as I said, the confidence fairy hasn’t shown up. Europe’s troubled debtor nations are, as we should have expected, suffering further economic decline thanks to those austerity programs, and confidence is plunging instead of rising. It’s now clear that Greece, Ireland and Portugal can’t and won’t repay their debts in full, although Spain might manage to tough it out.



In Spain, the austerity measures have clearly worsened the situation:

Youth Protests Sweep Spain As Unemployment Soars
by SYLVIA POGGOLI
May 26, 2011
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/26/136683688/youth-protests-sweep-spain-as-unemployment-soars

Debt-heavy European countries are again raising anxiety in international financial markets. Greece, Spain, Ireland and Portugal are trying to cut deficits drastically despite their deep recessions.

~~~

The jobless rate among Spain's generally well-educated young people has reached nearly 45 percent, a record in any industrialized country.

Under international pressure to cut its deficit, the government imposed sharp austerity measures — cutting public service workers' salaries, freezing pensions and drastically reducing public expenditures.

The immediate results: a 20 percent drop in consumption and Europe's highest jobless rate, 21 percent.


Yet we saw in the article posted by marmar that the IMF is pushing for even more austerity. More from that here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-29/imf-sees-spain-in-danger-zone-as-european-debt-crisis-persists.html

Spain is still in “the danger zone” and must keep up momentum in restructuring its economy to stave off contagion from Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis, the International Monetary Fund said.

~~~

The report, a so-called article IV assessment, praised Spain for its “strong and wide-ranging” response to economic challenges in the last year. The country met its 2010 budget deficit target, forged ahead with efforts to curb the cost of its pension system and reshaped its banking industry by forcing lenders to meet minimum capital requirements, the IMF said.

~~~

The IMF said that in terms of Spain’s efforts to cut its budget deficit, the “larger risk” to the 2011 target is that some regional governments may not keep to spending limits.

“All levels of government should deliver on their commitments,” the report said. “Bold strengthening” of changes to labor laws are also needed to reduce the scope of collective bargaining and the practice of indexing wages to inflation, while severance payments should be cut to at least average European Union levels, the IMF said.


So even though they took austerity measures, even though this made life worse for the citizens, even though they met the "budget deficit target" imposed by this, they are pushed to restructure even more and tear down more systems that benefit people.


The point on Blair's becoming quite religious reminds me of the meeting he had with Obama in 2009:

Obama greets 'good friend' Blair
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7873000.stm

Tony Blair has become the first leading British politician to meet Barack Obama since he was sworn in as US President.

The former prime minister was welcomed as a "very good friend" by Mr Obama, as he gave a speech at the traditional National Prayer Breakfast.

~~~

After the address Mr Obama said: "I want to thank my good friend Tony Blair for coming today. He has been an example to so many people around the world of what dedicated leadership can accomplish."Mr Obama praised Mr Blair as "somebody who did it first and perhaps did it better than I will do".

[sabrina 1]

50. suffragette, these comments should be OPs of their own!

First, what is it that Tony Blair accomplished that Obama aspires to accomplishing himself? That IS a scary statement from him.

Great article by Krugman. 'Caucus of Pain'! And for no good reason that anyone can tell.

This is why I think it's about much more than lowering deficits and paying debts.

The more I read, and see and watching what's going on here, I think it is about creating cheap work forces all over the world. 'Levelling the playing field'. Not letting China and India eg, have a monopoly on providing cheap labor.

Why else would they push these horrific, failed programs on countries, like Spain! 45% unemployment? Soon, maybe even now, that workforce will be ready to take any job at any price! Is that the goal?

“All levels of government should deliver on their commitments,” the report said. “Bold strengthening” of changes to labor laws are also needed to reduce the scope of collective bargaining and the practice of indexing wages to inflation, while severance payments should be cut to at least average European Union levels, the IMF said.

Obama already took care of the COLA re Social Security recipients. The Teabaggers who got elected are taking care of the 'strengthening of the changes to labor laws', collective bargaining etc. So, the program appears to be under way here. With both parties helping out.

If that IS the goal, to deliberately reduce wages to third world levels, it is pure evil and anyone here who goes along with, is a traitor, imo.

Unbelievable evil, I just can't think of any other word for it. It is an attack on the world by, who? Who are these people?

[suffragette]

55. Thanks. I'll work on making an OP from them.

Yep, 45% unemployment for youth.
If this restructuring to Austerity keeps going, there may be a lost generation.

[girl gone mad]

22. k & r

[chill_wind]

23. K & R!

[Egalitariat]

25. If SS isn't Government spending, what would happen if the Government quit sending SS checks?

Nothing?

[sabrina 1]

26. No, we would get someone else to manage the fund.

The SS Fund is owned by the American people and is not part of the Government's money. They just manage it.

[Egalitariat]

27. I thought the Government is the American People. The Government's money is the American People's

money.

How do you draw such a distinction?

[sabrina 1]

29. The American people pay into a fund during their

working years which is set aside for their retirement. That money is a separate fund and is to be used only for retirement benefits, and also for the disabled and dependent children. It is not part of the Govt's General Fund. It is administered by a board and any surplus is invested now in US Govt Treasury Bonds. That invested generates interest for the fund, which is another source of income. Right now, the fund has a surplus of over 2 trillion dollars and will continue to grow and double by 2023.

Just because, say, a big Corp collects pension funds from their employees, doesn't make that money the property of the Corp even if they are managing it.

The US Govt gets to spend the money but it must be paid back when it is needed. Just like any other creditor, China eg, the Govt cannot default on their debt to the SS without damaging their own credit rating. So, they are attempting to find other ways of NOT paying it back. One of them is the ludicrous notion of cutting benefits. That will keep money in the fund, making it possible for them not to have to raise taxes on the wealthy, or so they think.

But in reality, if the fund keeps growing due to cuts, and as you can see, such cuts will do nothing to lower the debt or the deficit as any extra money will go into the SS fund, NOT to the general fund, the Govt will most likely borrow again from the fund, which will in fact RAISE the debt.

So, they are lying when they claim that to lower the debt SS needs to be cut. It is a blatant lie actually.

[Enthusiast]

40. Do you know what these lies are

doing to the emotional well being of those that depend on these programs for their very lives? This will actually kill people and very likely already has.

Those that are guilty of this are our enemies just as surely as any Al Queda extremist.

[sabrina 1]

41. Yes, many people depend totally on their SS checks and are

already barely surviving. The lack of a COLA for two years already cut their benefits. Anyone who continues to threaten and terrorize these people, AND in many cases, take advantage of their inability to fight for themselves, is a person of zero morals imo.

[Marnie]

45. You could expect this kind of duplicity from the RepoCons

But why is Obama not standing firm and speaking the truth.
The debt ceiling ad the deficits are separate issues than SS Medicare and yet he joins the RepoCons and TeePeers in their quest to destroy both and divert their withholdings into their own pockets.

Let's say that again. Obama joins the enemies of SS and Medicare by parroting Republican PR that SS and Medicare are part of the debt ceiling and deficit problems, and as has, on his own volition reduces SS withholdings 2% calling it a tax break, instead of the truth, which is an the deliberate killing of Americas.

[sabrina 1]

51. Yes, why doesn' he speak out clearly against the Repubs

on SS? There is always this double-speak when it comes to SS, but he always makes sure to mention it when he mentions the deficit. Most people just hear both words combined and assume they are connected. And he is not a stupid man, so we have to assume that is deliberate. He is no champion of the Social Safety Net, not any more anyhow.

[sarcasmo]

53. Take money from the pentagon and the defense budget.

[Jim_Shorts]

54. Make no mistake, this new super committee WILL cut SS & Medicare

If the committee can't agree on the cuts later this year, it's in the agreement, across the board cuts have to be made , including SS & medicare.

They wouldn't vote to give us healhhcare (like every other industrialized country has) so now to "save medicare" - they need to cut it. We ALL know SS has nothing to do with the debt, deficit, so now to "save SS" - they need to cut it. Do they actually believe that the sick, poor and elderly have had it way to good.

It's getting harder to participate in a government that is so corrupt. (both sides) The "360 degree epic shit-storm" sounds pretty good to me at this point.

[Eyerish]

56. K&R