Anti intellectualism.. this is what you get

[nadinbrzezinski]

when country bumpkings, who want to manage a national budget at their kitchen table, who hate book learnin' and experts... take the reins of power.

There is a good dose of racism too...

But this is is boys and girls. This is what is destroying us.


Ok here is a term that MIGHT work...

Know nothings? That works? It is a less regional and a close equivalent. I promise to work on a term... but it is real... and it is on display in Idiocracy as well.

[RKP5637]

1. US = United Stupidity! n/t

[Cant trust em]

2. +1. It really explains it all. nt

[MadHound]

3. 'Scuse me, I know I'm bucking against the excepted wisdom here,

But being a "country bumpking" myself, I think that you also need to take a look at demographics other than rural. First of all, there are a lot of liberals and solid Democrats out in rural areas, and second of all, rural voters make up about five percent of the voting public. I suggest that you start looking at the 'burbs as one of the larger culprits:shrug:

[MikeE]

5. From reading both of your comments

I think the other poster was referring to those rural people who don't honor education. I also grew up in a very rural area and education among a lot of people was highly valued. There was a group that was very anti intellectual though, and those are the ones we see supporting the teabaggers now. Also, just a note, I think it is accepted wisdom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. And non rural people who also do not honor it

we lack a term, to be specific...

[YvonneCa]

175. Low information voters...

...is a term I've heard.

[lunatica]

6. Being from the country doesn't make you a country bumpking

Neither does being from the suburbs. But I've seen and known a lot of teabaggers in the suburbs.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[R. P. McMurphy]

42. You made me laugh : ) (n/t)

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Alas I am not talking about you

but when I think about a country bumpkin you are not the one that comes to mind. Nor does it mean that this person lives in the country side.

I am thinking of your classic, know nothing, books are bad... learnin' is bad, experts are bad that right now infects the extreme right wing of the republican party. It is a state of mind... and has nothing to do with where you live.

IN fact. there are couple of those where I live... and take my word for this, they have never been in the country side. The problem is that we really don't have a good term for that. In spanish there is a really good for that state of mind... but really not in English.

The closest would be willfully ignorant but it doesn't even approach it.

As you said, the burbs are pretty bad, actually very bad... alas we need to come up with a term... because it really does not exist.

And right now that summarizes it.

[Petrushka]

23. "The problem is that we really don't have a good term for that.. . . not in English." ??

Instead of "country bumpkin", you might consider "philistine", among other words . . . in English.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/anti-intellectual

http://thesaurus.com/browse/philistine

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Phillistine does not describe it... after all

Philistines are not know nothings... I think know nothing will do it actually. At least in my mind a vulgar person is not necessarily going to throw books out and burn them... I think know nothings will do it... alas if we wanted to go for a modern day cultural reference, Idiocrat might do it too. from idiocracy.

[hyphenate]

33. I like troglodytes

It works the same as knickledraggers in most ways. But it kind of makes it even more apparent that these people are not exactly brainiacs.

But yes, the problem is more like it was when Bush was president. People "liked" him, because he was like them, and the one they could have sit down with them for a beer.

Anti-intellectualism has arisen because understanding government has gotten more difficult over time, and it's out of the grasp of a society that demands new technology even before it's viable. The attention span of people has waned, and they need to have their sound bites in 140 characters or less. They don't understand academia or intellectualism, or give a fig about what was written 1000 years ago. They can't hold on to a whole lot of facts or information, and as a result, they are helping to destroy the country because there are countries which are farther ahead than the US in science and mathematics.

We still come up with some good ideas, and there are still plenty of people here who appreciate intelligence and study, but we're up against people who have only read one book in their lives, and don't a shit about anyone else except themselves.

If one phrase doesn't fit, try this one: republicans.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. The problem is that while it's gotten virulent

it's been with us since at least 1740... it is a parallel with the Enlightenment.

We are actually in a small motion cultural revolution I fear though.

And no, republicans since it is sadly not limited to them... or the voting public... I mean the actual voting public is a minority. That is another discussion though.

[lbrtbell]

179. ROTFL! :D

"Republican" sums up just about everything awful, stupid, and evil in the human condition.

[Petrushka]

38. Guess it depends on your own definition of "philistine".

Although it might seem best to simply hide dictionaries and other reference works from the philistines who are hostile enough to destroy books, here's one definition of "philistine" taken from the same website as the thesaurus links in my previous comment:


phil·is·tine
   
–noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a person who is lacking in or hostile or smugly indifferent to cultural values, intellectual pursuits, aesthetic refinement, etc., or is contentedly commonplace in ideas and tastes.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/philistine?fromRef=true&__utma=1.1763329176.1310279023.1311569929.1311996211.6&__utmb=1.19.10.1311996211&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1311996211.6.3.utmcsr=democraticunderground.com|utmccn=(referral)|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/discuss/duboard.php&__utmv=-&__utmk=119118345




But, then again: :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. YEah but think of the BIBLICAL concept

and many of our boys and girls will get the insult, but not exactly what it means.

And in some quarters this could be seen as elitist... hell the whole discussion could be seen that way by a few.

[Petrushka]

48. ---self-delete---

[Occulus]

34. That is exactly the term we should not use

because the people we're talking about WILL NOT understand you when you use it.

We need a term that perfectly describes them that THEY will understand and that will communicate to them IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE what is wrong with them.

When you use the word 'philistine', you may as well be speaking Greek to them. Such terminology will only harden them against you.

Let's just stick with "nutlicking stupid" or "dumb as a bag of hammers". You have to talk down to these people using their language or they'll put you right in the category of "elite, book-learned snob" and ignore you completely.

I grew up among such. I know this very, very well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. So let me ask, will know nothings work?

[Occulus]

40. No, that will only insult them

Asking them if they would slam their dicks in a door might work better.

"Would you slam your dick in a door? No? Then WHY would you vote for so-and-so?"

These people are earthy. They like crass and crude language, off-color jokes, and double meanings. We should be using that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Ah gotcha

but for here, that might get a thread locked...

Just saying...

[Occulus]

43. And that is one of the biggest problems with this site.

The rules at DU seem almost designed to have the exact opposite of the intended effect. The no-call-out rule, for example, allows trolls to flourish far longer at DU than they would at any other site.

I also take extreme exception to the idea that Dems have to be high-minded and "better than them". We are asking to lose by not crushing the Republicans with their own rule set. Obama's first term has been not only a perfect example of this, but a textbook case study.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Yep, and framing is quite important

I think they don't get it in DC... and I will NOW stereotype... having moved in both worlds (in Mexico) I see this as part of the problem is that our party leaders come from the right side of the track. They can't see how the other half lives, or understand it. (Some do, Conyers for example)... but part of the problem is that when they talk to these people, while using English, they are not talking the same language. I had that problem as a medic... and to be effective I needed to learn how people spoke on the wrong side of the tracks. Yes El Rushbo is a damn good propagandist since he speaks the language still, even if he could not know the wrong side even if he was paid to do it.

[saras]

141. There's a campaign slogan : Better Than Slamming Your Dick In A Door

[Petrushka]

47. "Such terminology [philistine] will only harden them against you." But, of course . . .

by referring to them as "...'nutlicking stupid' or 'dumb as a bag of hammers.'", you'll surely soften 'em up!




:spank:

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[coalition_unwilling]

51. I prefer 'Yahoo' (from Jonathan Swift's "Gulliver's Travels"). It's gotten

a little twisted since Swift published GT, but here's a good start:

"A Yahoo is a legendary being in the novel Gulliver's Travels (1726) by Jonathan Swift.

Swift describes the Yahoos as vile and savage creatures, filthy and with unpleasant habits, resembling human beings far too closely for the liking of protagonist Lemuel Gulliver . . . "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo_(Gulliver's_Travels)

[alarimer]

35. Those are the majority of Americans

The vast majority (bumpkins or otherwise) are ignorant. And willfully and happily so. Just give them "reality" tv and they will be content.

[ej510]

78. MOst of the country is ignorant; which is why repukes can win elections.

[hifiguy]

157. I call it The Stupid Belt

and it doesn't really have any specific geographic location. Big cities tend to be on the whole smarter and more liberal, but stupidity is everywhere. The exurbs around any large city tend to be heavily Stupid.

[lunasun]

4. They pray a lot so everything is OK

:crazy:

[Patchuli]

174. And then we have the intellectuals

who also pray and you should be glad we do. Please don't label faith with 'stupid' thank you.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[renegade000]

9. well to be fair to country bumpkins...

most of them would probably do a better job. the problem seems to be quasi-religious economic dogma overriding any form of sense, common or sophisticated.

republicans these days are like business owners that think the answer to every situation is to downsize and charge less for your product... i think even country bumpkins know better than that :P

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. The problem is that we really do not have the exact

word to describe the state of mind and these people are not just limited to the country side.

Maybe it is time to invent a term... like truthiness and colbert.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

17. Reminds me of Cliff Claven...nt

Sid

[zappaman]

19. Clavenites!

Perfect description!

[SidDithers]

26. Exactly. A perfect example of pseudo-intellectualism...nt

Sid

[pintobean]

109. Quite the high flying comment

Nice one, Sid.

[SidDithers]

12. Stereotypes are fun!!...nt

Sid

[Jim Warren]

14. The knuckledraggers think Limbaugh is a genius

and hold disdain for what gets called "eastern liberal elites" because
Rush tells them they can be rich but they know themselves they'll never be very intelligent.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Yep, but as I pointed out, while the term is descriptive

it is not limited to the country side, it is a state of mind, so I will think about a term, we can all use as short hand, to describe this state of mind.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eShirl]

25. just say "republicans"

you're welcome

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. There is a clear absence of education and knowledge. This country is very pathetic since 1980.

That's when the Republicans and the Democrats both fell in love with an idiot named Ronald Reagan and continued his trash-America legacy to the present.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Ronnie was a very smart political run

but I'd say the origin of this IS in the 80s... but not quite with Reagan... but with a certain millionaire a few times over, who developed a cult following. He was also helped with the deregulation of the media. A lot of the damage was done by El Rushbo who celebrates this know nothin' attitude.

Also the US has a strain of this under the surface, going back to the 1740s... it just gets rabid from time to time. El Rushbo is our modern day Father Coughlin. He didn;t do that much damage since he remained regional. El Rushbo went national and became part of a movement.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. Who was the millionaire who developed a cult following? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Rush Limbaugh aka El Rushbo

[Sarah Ibarruri]

31. Well, yeah, he was a pig that would've made Joseph Goebbels proud nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

105. In 1980, 17% of the public had a college degree. Today it's 30%

Education in the US is inversely correlated with civic understanding and purpose.

[Initech]

22. You can't spell anti-intellectualism without TEA.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Current incarnation, yep...

[phone]

[Gregorian]

30. America gave part of the reins to it's people. This required a certain amount of responsibility

It's interresting that we picked up on the country bumkin part of your post. I also tended to put the blame on rural folks. But it's not the case that it's geographic. But that is a sidetrack of the issue. But one that we ought to get straight in order to focus properly on what our problem really is.

We are a country where the civilians do indeed have a say in where things go. There's a problem that exists within our civil infrastructure that has not instilled and inspired us to take full advantage of our gift in order to do what is best for US. I believe it is a combination of corporate and other things I am not able to identify off the top of my head right now. Our entertainment has been anything but good for us. Father Knows Best? Cops? Even Laugh-in had some modicum of value. But most of the shit that has gone over our airwaves has done nothing to inspire us to make a better country. We could have used tv to teach biology, math, chemistry. But we took the entertaining way out. After all, it's a lot more fun. Like drinking and smoking is to excercise and eating properly. Ask me, I've lived all of these lives.

We have the steering wheel in our hands. But we don't know where to take the bus. So we took our hands off the wheel and let others drive it for us. Others like Bush. Or FOX. Or any of these huge lobbying firms.

It's across the board. Inner city, to the tip of Alaska. It's an individual choice which has no location. And now we've reached our destination. Our credit card is maxed. It was a great ride. Check, please.

We had a hand in the greatest civil experiment on earth. And we crashed it. Now what? I still think there's another starting line somewhere. I did it. I had my six pack every night for years. It makes me sick to think of it. I lost time and energy and money. I picked myself up and started the hard work of bettering myself. What does it take to wake up the sleeping, the lazy, the careless. I think it takes a helping hand. We gave our money to the warlords. We need to spend that kind of cash on helping people raise themselves up and out of their stupors. I know, that's why I gave up. Hopelessness. Give most people a start, and they'll find the optimism to do something with it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Why I said we need another term that is just as descriptive

and know nothing I think will work.

That said, let me go back to the country that oh Togueville visited... this is at the height of Jackson. He was amazed that yes, yeoman farmers and other rural people, were very informed on the goings on in Europe. They cared.

Fast forward a few years (decades, 200 years maybe)... and these days we have a bunch of people, who have taken over the reins of power, that are proud of their ignorance. A working democracy requires what Toqueville described. And don't get me wrong, THAT country had a few problems...

[izzybeans]

45. Anti intellectualism indeed.

It's alive in the cities as well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Absolutely... as I explained to Madhound... above

it is a state of mind and has nothing to do with the country side. We had a good discussion on what OTHER term to use... that is less, ahem regional.

Sadly the world in Spanish that would be perfect has no equivalent in English...

[Petrushka]

49. What is the Spanish word? (eom)

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Pendejo

and the actual definition, kitchen helper, belies the true meaning, and tripple entendre of the word. And there is no good translation... I mean ignorant does not begin t describe it. And yes it can lead to fist to cuffs at a bar with a few drunks...

[Petrushka]

58. A Spanish profanity, no less!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_profanity#Pendejo


:eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Yep... but it is so descriptive.. to these folks

and it does not translate...

As I said, dictionary definition is helper of the cook.

And let's be very specific since it is regional... it is a Mexican profanity...

Since you are using the google, go ahead and google cajeta. In mexico it is a candy... don't ask what it means in Argentina. I guarantee you are going to be insulted.

Oh and one last thing, why do you think I said it leads to fist to cuffs?

[Raksha]

65. From Wikipedia:

Pendejo (lit.: "a pubic hair') may be translated as "dumbass" in many situations, though it carries an extra implication of willful incompetence. The less extreme meaning, which is used in most Spanish speaking countries, translates more or less as "jackass."

Is this word used by Mexican-Americans to describe George W. Bush? Sounds like it could be, or should be.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Yes and it has other meanings too

Having it used against me, a few times... it also means willful ignorant and idiot.

And yes the Mexican American Community used it with George,

But the willful incompetence applies to our fiends across the aisle.

[Petrushka]

73. Such a multi-purpose word! As used in South America, "pendejo" refers to a "smartass" . . .

. . . according to the same Wikipedia article.


:crazy:

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. And it is one of the many meanings of the word

this is hard to understand? Yes it is multipurpose...

I am not using the wikipedia for this. I grew up in Mexico City... I KNOW what the word means.

[Petrushka]

68. "...be very specific.... it is a Mexican profanity..." ["...helper of the cook."?**]

Specific countries in bold for emphasis --->


Pendejo

Pendejo (lit.: "a pubic hair') may be translated as "dumbass" in many situations, though it carries an extra implication of willful incompetence. The less extreme meaning, which is used in most Spanish speaking countries, translates more or less as "jackass." The term however, has very high offensive connotations in Puerto Rico. An older usage was in reference to a man who is in denial about being cheated (for example, by his wife).

In Mexico, Central and Northern South America, pendejo refers to a stupid person (estúpido), synonymous with idiota ("idiot") or imbécil ("moron"), although much more offensive. It is considered very offensive in Mexico and Central America, and less so in Panama (although it is still considered impolite among older adults).

In Peru it means a person who is opportunistic in an immoral or deceptively persuasive manner (usually involving sexual gain and promiscuity, but not limited to it), and if used referring to a female (ella es pendeja) it means she is promiscuous (or perhaps a swindler). There the word pendejada and a whole family of related words have meanings that stem from these.

In South America pendejo is also a vulgar, yet inoffensive word, for children. It also signifies a person with a disorderly or irregular life.

In Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic, it has different meanings depending on the situation. It can range from ¡Te cogieron de pendejo! ("You were swindled!") to ¡Qué tipa pendeja! ("What a dumbass!" as when a strange woman behaves offensively, then suddenly leaves). In Mexico and some countries of Central America—especially El Salvador—una pendejada/pendeja is used to describe something incredibly stupid that someone has done.

In many regions, pendejo also means coward (with a stronger connotation), as in ¡No huyas, pendejo! "Don't run away, chicken-shit!"

In South America it refers to a person regarded with an obnoxiously determined advancement of one's own personality, wishes, or views (a "smartass").

In Argentina, Chile and Uruguay, pendejo or pendeja refers to a child, usually with a negative connotation, like that of immaturity or a "brat". Also, in Argentina, as "pendejo" literally means "pubic hair" it usually refers to someone of little to no social value.

In Peru, however, it does not necessarily have a negative connotation, and can just refer to someone who is clever and street-smart.

In the Philippines, this word is extremely offensive, meaning a "cuckold", and often used with the intention of scathingly humiliating someone and robbing him of his pride.

In North Sulawesi, Indonesia, pendo (a derivative of pendejo) is used as profanity but with the majority of the population not knowing its meaning. The word was adopted during the colonial era when Spanish and Portuguese merchants sailed to this northern tip of Indonesia for spices.

In Spain, this word is hardly ever used.

In the film Idiocracy, Joe's lunk-headed lawyer is named Frito Pendejo.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_profanity#Pendejo



______________________________________________________
**"¡Mesero, is that a hair in my sopas?"

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Congrats my reference to the dictionary defintion

is the Spanish Dictionary of Language... the Royal Academy Dictionary to be specific, as well as my Spanish instructor in Mexico City... where i grew up.

As I said, it applies, even if it this hurts your sensibilities.

Now go on an google cajeta...

Oh and this is not a term I would use with Americans... but I have heard it used in reference to oh George W Bush... again it applies. If it helps, also with the current president of Mexico, and a few members of the Mexican House and Senate.

Heck, you will see it in many of the message boards down there.

[Petrushka]

79. I did a google.com search for "cajeta" before posting #68 (above). I found "pendejo" to be more

versatile, considering that it's a word that can be used to refer to both a "dumbass" and a "smartass" as well as any "jackass" 'tween 'em.

As for my (**uh**) "sensibilities" being hurt by anything you've said, I must not have been paying close enough attention to have noticed what "this" it was that "applies."

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. It is also a word that is hard to translate

and PROFESSIONAL translators will tell you this... due to its many meanings.

But whatever, I told you the word... what else do you want me to do?

I really do not get it... not one bit... not at all...

[SlimJimmy]

172. Well, let's just change it to Ben Dahoe, then. (nt)

[Petrushka]

50. "Know nothings? That works?" Nope! Because there was a political party in the 1800s called . . .

"Know Nothing" --->

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=know+nothing+party+definition&aq=1&aqi=g5&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=5c88e14de2b269a1&biw=1007&bih=625

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. I know...

[Kalidurga]

61. So many names so little time...

First off I like Clavinites, that is near perfection. Obscurvies is something I made up it is a combo of Obscurite and scurvy, because Obscurities are ignorant and proud and scurvy can mean someone doing an underhanded deed. Batshitinsane or batshitcrazy are two other good ones or we could go for the root of the thing and call them guano breathers. Tea Baggers is a term I see and have an immediate understanding of. Or we could just call them Randites.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. The problem with randites is that this is very specific

to this moment in time, but it works... they are after all.

Teahadist is also specific... but also works...

I am trying to go for something that is useful even after this, and describes the state of mind.

[Kalidurga]

63. The problem with trying to describe their state of mind is...

they really don't have much of a mind to describe.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Alas we are back to some of the more general terms that

do.. but are insulting to people.

Randites... perhaps we should make this a poll. I have not done one evah by the way.

[white_wolf]

86. Randite doesn't work for one reason.

I highly doubt these idiots have ever read Rand, if they did they would hate her. She was everything they despised and they were everything she despised. She was (in her mind at least) an intellectual, an elite, a "philosopher",an author,a militant atheist. They are ignorant,unsuccessful,mediocre at best, religious fanatics, quite a few are libertarians whom she despised worse than she did Marxists, oh and she was on medicare and Social Security. So I wish they would all read Rand maybe they would realize how much she would have hated them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Yep there is that, why this is so hard to do

[provis99]

54. Richard Neustadt needs to be read in every high school.

"Anti-intellectualism in American Life" is an all-time classic on the psyche of the conservative idiot in America.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. And perhaps some of Susan Jacoby's recent work

Her book, too long, but there are several essays out there.

[provis99]

83. yeah, I just happen to be reading Jacoby's book today.

Weird coincidence.

[loyalsister]

57. Since you're talking about my friends and neighbors......

I'd like to point out some things that I have learned from them.
There is a lot to be learned from newspapers, books, and working on a farm. I am amazed at how some people recognize trees and flowers and know how to care for them. That also involves concepts that translate. People who live on the streets or in the projects also receive an education through experience.
Sometimes a classroom is the last place where someone can learn.
Just because a person cleans toilets or works construction does not mean they don't read or learn.
Sometimes what is perceived as anti- intellectualism is defensiveness against stereotypes.

So, I concluded that people who disagree with me are not necessarily stupid. Sometimes they have different priorities. Sometimes they have valid arguments I disagree with. Education comes from a lot of sources.

I agree that this country does not value advanced education as it should. But, I also think that those of us who are educated sometimes engage in another form of anti-intellectualism by dismissing knowledge from sources that are not formal or don't fall in line with our personally defined standards.

I think disregarding people as stupid based on different conclusions and different ways of getting there is in itself a form of anti- intellectualism.

Just sayin' keeping an open mind cuts all ways.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Alas I am not talking of your friends and neighbors who

are open to learning stuff and appreciate it... I am talking of people like oh Mrs Bachmann who went to a university and got a Juris Doctor, but as you said learned nothing.

I am talking of people like Sarah Palin, who is PROUD of her ignorance... and gut feeling.

It is a state of mind, not a location. It happens everywhere, from the hallowed world of Academia (yes I know a few people with doctorates who are pretty ignorant) all the way to the factory floor... It is an ATTITUDE.

And this is the attitude that shows itself when an economist tells these elected people... you know these are the effects of a default, and they laugh him out of the room, since he is somebody with book learnin' and not kitchen table balancing the budget type. I mean we should do with the IRS what we do with your monthly budget...

Oh never mind that a country does not run it's budget like you or I do.

That is what I am talking about.

Add to that a healthy hate of the government, and sprinkle some racism, and here we are. I can tell you where CULTURALLY this comes from, but it don't really matter. The results are about to byte all of us in the darn ass.

[loyalsister]

97. I am not so sure they are willing to learn to reach my conclusions

But I am willing to respect that they have a thinking process that leads to conclusions that are different from mine. Where the information comes from is not relevant. My point is that writing them off as stupid is counter productive.
I think most politicians and other people in leadership positions frequently use information in the interest of confirming their beliefs.
If you are talking about a lack of willingness to analyze or accept objective information with specific results, I disagree because I think thinking people can reach different conclusions. All of our interpretations are colored by subjective predispositions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Key word of what you said thinking people

I am not talking about thinking people. Literally I am talking about people who are proud of their ignorance, and hate anybody who does any thinking. It does not matter if this thinking is done in a formal setting, such as a university... or the fields.

My husband, to give you an obvious example, finished HS... he went to the Navy, spent 21 years in the Navy... retired as a chief... did not have any FORMAL training in a university setting. He self educated and he is pretty much, to the eyes of this attitude, a snotty intellectual. Now that he is going back to college, he will confirm that view in their eyes and was told by companions at work, why go back to them lib'rul college? Some of his companions still make fun of him for doing that. This is the kind of state of mind I am talking about. Oh and trust me, we are far from the country.

[Rex]

67. Yep. Bingo. Knocked it out of the park.

When stupid people ruin things, they really do a great job! They are experts at (self)destruction.

EDIT - I understand what you are trying to say...but 'country bumkin' is regional imo, how about Teabaggers - cuz that is what they are nationwide.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. We have been an apt term

that goes beyond what I consider a state of mind... that is what that describes to me.

Also to me it is not local... or just country... hell, some of the worst at that have never been in the country either... oy I know a few.

Alas the word in Spanish really has no translation... and yes it is a Mexican swear word.

[cabot]

69. remember when being smart

was a good thing? now it is "elitist."

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Yep, but that is part of the problem

we are having a slow motion cultural revolution,

[cabot]

76. it's like that book

"flowers for algernon." going from brilliant to not-so-brilliant. it's sad.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Posteritatis]

150. I certainly don't. (nt)

[potone]

75. I think know nothings is the best term.

After all, these people are not necessarily stupid, just trapped in a false ideology, which is constantly reinforced by the media. We need to keep repeating facts about politicians' policies, not insults against voters. We should point out that running the government is not like running a business, and that tax rates on the wealthy are the lowest they have been for decades, yet that still hasn't translated into jobs, etc., etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Yeah they are not stupid

but the power of propaganda is great. In a few cases it is willful... but rank and file, in some cases it may be... a state of mind.

Quite the conundrum... after all I understand some of this (read FR and other places and yes you get it... rabbit hole and all)...

What we have though is two sides firmly dug in their own corner... but that should be another thread.

[JHB]

81. So what's the excuse for the educated city slickers...

...who brought us to this point?

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Alas they are not educated city slickers

and we have been discussing what other term to use.

It is a state of mind... and some of the worst offenders are actually living in cities.

There is more... a few of these people who are very well FORMALLY educated... Bachman comes to mind, she is a lawyer... which means a doctorate... are just as willfully ignorant and share this state of mind.

Know nothings comes to mind

Randians comes to mind... but it is way too specific to today...

Please feel free to add.

[Rex]

85. I've been using 'willfully ignorant' to describe them.

To call them all, 'stupid commoners' is wrong - their base are 'stupid commoners' and they play that up to a T to get elected.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. But I do not think the base is stupid either

that is the problem... ignorant yes, but that is not the same as stupid.

[Rex]

116. I live around their base and work with them too.

They are stupid and proud of it (for some reason they believe intellectualism is like communism or being a souless god-hater...wonder who told them that?) some are smart enough to be willfully ignorant. Most are stupid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. Why the term ideocrat works.

[Rex]

124. And why the future is going to look like the movie Idiocracy

with every passing day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. I hope we wake up soon

but the long night is almost upon us... Red Mars... ever read that? Science Fiction... these days it is almost prophecy... the Theocracy is in place...

[Rex]

132. Never read it.

I will check it out, thanks! :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

134. Oops got my title wrong

Marks Life, by Ben Bova

[Rex]

158. No, but when I was a youngster I LOVED BB!

I must have re-read his Orion! series a hundred times and imagined being John while daydreaming in HS. I rank him right up there with Isaac Asimov and Piers Anthony. I will look for a copy, haven't read anything by Ben Bova in over a decade thanks for reminding me of his great works! :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

162. I got mine at the used book store

we used to be regulars in Honolulu when we went to visit.

I had to put it down... the book is good, the characters are good... but damn reads like a political history of the modern US.

[Rex]

164. Great writers stir deep emotions.

That has happened to me a time or two...had to take a breath and try and process what I just read. It is profound in scope and not meant for the casual thinker. It is a build up that makes you have to put the book down.

[nadinbrzezinski]

165. Yea I know but it was as unsettling as me

re-readying the future history of the world per Future Nexus time line. I am revising it, mostly to reflect a few events that can be used to influence a character (Her name is tara Kurita, and between a certain Admiral in WW II and Takashi Kurita, spokesman of Tepco) I just put these events in the 24th century...

[calimary]

180. Sounds like the same effect that watching the movie "Network" has.

Watching it now is downright creepy. It was released in 1976. It's mindblowing, now, to consider what Paddy Chayefsky imagined in the early 70s about the deterioration of television news - after the "suits" in the corporate board rooms decided news should become a profit center. This was fictional back then. Now it's a freakin' mirror.

:scared:

[white_wolf]

87. Read reply 86 for why Randian doesn't work. However,

the term Theocrat comes to mind with a lot of these people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. And Fascist does as well

[JVS]

84. I haven't noticed the educated doing any great favors for the common people either though.

So I'm hesitant to categorize the anti-intellectualism as undeserved.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. In the recent past I will fully agree

But this is also partly, as I have been saying a state of mind, and one that goes back into the colonial past.

[Posteritatis]

151. Your life expectancy says otherwise. (nt)

[JVS]

152. Not if you're one of the many uninsured Americans.

And who runs the insurance industry? Rich, educated people. Further, the educational system in this country is a complete exercise in class privilege. For the most part people use education to advance their own interests. While there is nothing inherently wrong with that, expecting other people to admire you for it is a bit vain. If I were to make a killing in a business deal, I wouldn't expect you to bow in awe of me, so why should those who've acquired another form of "social capital" expect respect?


Also, advances in life expectancy are not as great a triumph as you might like to think. First of all, many of them do not trickle down to the lower class, just as education is not readily available to them. Secondly, even with advances in life expectancy that do find their way down the ladder, it's not such great shakes considering that for the most part these advances have increased the years of morbidity rather than good health. Is it really a help to working people to say, "Good news, life expectancy is up. Now it's up to you to scramble to find money to support you until you're 82 instead of 72. Of course, after 75 you'll need to be in a nursing home, which will cost you. And don't forget that you're still unemployable once you hit 55. Oh, you say your job was offshored? Should have gone to college, sucker."

[Cetacea]

89. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2UlxJB3tH0&feature=player_embedded

[Le Taz Hot]

90. Agree, except,

I find anti-intellectualism in MANY different ethnic groups and cultures, not just the "country bumpkings" (sic) so I'm disagreeing with the racism part (as it pertains to anti-intellectualism). Having said that, I think Americans, as a whole, cannot conceive of learning just to learn. Our culture tells us that learning has to be used to make money, otherwise its a waste of time. There has long been a denigration of intellectuals in this country and, if you want to talk about bigotry, try being a smart woman in a patriarchal world. But that's another thread.

Just for the record, I've met plenty of very very smart "country bumpkings" and I've met my share of city dwellers who weren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. And vice versa. Geography and intellect are not interrelated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. That is what we have had a long discussion on what term to use

as I said, when I think of the term, to me it is not area specific, it is a state of mind. So please feel free to add.

We have been going over tings like Randian, which does not work... since these people would hate Ayn Rand if they knew what she wrote and what she thought of them.. then again that would include a very small group in the leaders of the group, people like Ryan.

Proto fascsit and theocrats, yep... it fits, but it has way too many meanings.

Know nothings... well there was a party... it works, and it is not area specific, but there are caveats. And the true base will not get it anyway. As it was pointed out by Occulus, we need to use language that can't be posted here.

The spanish term applies, it is a bad word, but it applies and it is hard as hell to translate and I wish there was an equivalent. We might have to make it up.

So feel free...

Perhaps the easiest one that is insulting to many of the people here, and it boggles the mind, is just plainly anti intellectual. It covers all dang bases, and everywhere.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

142. "Pinche" means "nasty". Assistant cook.

Pendejo is pubic hair.

[lumberjack_jeff]

96. Bullshit. The Democratic party doesn't suffer from insufficient hostility toward the working class.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. Two points about this

1.- while you are right, it is not limited to the republican party... it is a state of mind after all. Here comes the second question...

2- As bad as the center right democrats are... you are telling me that they will throw out an ECONOMIST from their mists because he told them that it could implode the economy?

That is a sign of idiocracy to the nth degree... and I think that term will work.

[lumberjack_jeff]

101. Greenfield nailed it in 2008

http://www.slate.com/id/2190378/

One key to the movement's lack of popularity, Orwell argues, is its supporters. "As with the Christian religion," he writes, "the worst advertisement for Socialism is its adherents." Then he wheels out the heavy rhetorical artillery. The typical socialist, according to Orwell, "is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism, or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaler, and often with vegetarian leanings … with a social position he has no intention of forfeiting. … One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words 'Socialism' and 'Communism' draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, 'Nature Cure' quack, pacifist and feminist in England." (Think "organic food lover," "militant nonsmoker," and "environmentalist with a private jet" for a more contemporary list.)
Orwell also rails against the condescension many on the left display toward those they profess to care most about. Describing a gathering of leftists in London, he says, "every person there, male and female, bore the worst stigmata of sniffish middle-class superiority. If a real working man, a miner dirty from the pit, for instance, had suddenly walked into their midst, they would have been embarrassed, angry and disgusted; some, I should think, would have fled holding their noses."
...
The perennial struggle of Democratic contenders to appeal to ordinary Americans seems very much of a piece with Orwell's sharp descriptions. Election after election, Democrats argue that once Joe and Jane Sixpack fully grasp the wisdom of the latest six-point college-loan program, or of an 800-page health-care scheme, they will come to wave the Democratic banner. And, sometimes, these voters do just that—provided that the candidate in question has demonstrated a sense that he or she is not treating them as the subject of an anthropological study. Bill Clinton had a full steamer trunk of domestic programs; he also was a product of Georgetown, Oxford, and Yale Law School. But his 18 years in the vineyards of Arkansas politics gave him the tools to compete for support on a more visceral level. Then there were Clinton's obvious tastes for earthly pleasures—from Big Macs to more intimate diversions—which made it very hard to label him as an aloof elitist.

The public is poorly informed in part because we actively alienate them. The democratic party isn't supposed to be an exclusive club. This "your mensa score should be this high" to take the ride crap is harming our party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. Oh absolutely

I will put it in a simpler way based on my life experience in Mexico. I learned pretty middle upper crust spanish... that is a matter of my upbringing. Alas that is not what my Patients spoke most of the time. So in order to become an effective medic I had to learn that FAST. I fear our party has not learned that.

TO be crass,they don't want to either... or are not capable of doing this.

The other side is effective in that. The upper crust, in the clouds terms, is framing... and quite simply we suck at it. And it has to do with again.. a state of mind... but it is a different state of mind... at the risk of sounding like a snob... in some ways it is the mirror image, I am aware of that.

[lumberjack_jeff]

107. When we call the working class "the know nothings" we cultivate the problem.

Right elites embrace the people they tangibly harm. ("values" "principles" "common-sense")

Left elites alienate the people they claim to support. ("idiocracy" "bumpkins" "racism")

Spending a single brain cell searching for a new word which will shame the "stupid people" into supporting us is worse than a waste of time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. Alas when I talk of a know nothing I am not talking of

a working class person but a state of mind... Bachmann, she is NOT working class, She has a nice Juris Doctor, she is a lawyer after all... and she is a know nothing,

Eric Cantor, trust me, he is well educated... as in went to school... I am not sure how much he got from the experience, he is a know nothing.

Neither of these two is working class by any stretch. Hell, el rushbo would be the closest where he came from, but he is not working class either... and he is a know nothing, and proud of it.

And he is part of the problem. While your "left wing" radio hosts tell you to check on them... he tells his listeners, my friends, trust me...

Billo, he is not working class, he is a know nothing.

The problem is that again our elites suck at framing. They should be putting these people I mentioned, WHO ARE NOT working class, for what they are.

I could mention the rest of the list, Paul Ryan... Speaker Boehner... should I go on... oh the one that comes immediately to me is George W Bush... not only willfully ignorant, but surrounded himself with yes men. He definitely was NOT working class.

[lumberjack_jeff]

147. Bill O, Cantor, Bachmann, Paul, Ryan; Right elites

when country bumpkings, who want to manage a national budget at their kitchen table, who hate book learnin' and experts... take the reins of power.

There is a good dose of racism too...

But this is is boys and girls. This is what is destroying us.

But they are not who you are talking about.

It's not framing. There's no way to frame this kind of condescension in a positive way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. Why we have setttled on Ideocrats

it seems to fit, new word, neologism.

Ideocrat Noun. Those who despise any form of learning outside of their preconceived world view. It is fully independent of social class or regional origin. It is a state of mind.

Why I ran the poll in the morning.

And I dare say these are the people who have captured the country right now.

[Kali]

110. I am liking you more and more now that I recognize your username

and I really like what you have posted in this thread. however I don't think finding a label for the people being discussed here is really about getting them to support us. (and I think teabagger is the perfect term for them)

I do agree with your comment otherwise.




PS

that damn new myers pump has a small leak again this morning and is reading no pressure on what should be a full pipeline:banghead:

[lumberjack_jeff]

148. Yes, I guess that is the other point

Politics is supposed to be about convincing people to support progressive policy, not deciding who's worthy to be in our club. If Republicans could get the support of the working class despite working against them, surely we could find a way to do the same.

Sorry about your pump. You should start a thread in the Rural/farm forum.

[SlimJimmy]

173. midst - just saying. (nt)

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. As promised, posted the poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1612963

[Shagbark Hickory]

102. Yeah the term is "tea bagger". Now I'm going to unrec this mean spirited post

[malaise]

103. Just the truth

Rec

[gulliver]

111. Intellectuals suck. Just ask Mao and Pol Pot.

We need national pride and cultural integrity. Just ask Hitler.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Alas we are small moving in that direction

[white_wolf]

113. I think I should point out that this condition has nothing to do with class or education level.

I'm in college and I've met some people who fit this description perfectly. They are willfully ignorant of things that go against their world view. I remember seeing a creationist bumper sticker in the staff parking lot, I just hope it wasn't a science professor. I'm sure a lot of you saw my posts talking about my business communication teacher who considered Palin as valid a source as Harvard. It's not limited to class,race, geographical area, it is something else, but I really don't know what. Oh and here's a term: reactionary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. Exactly... Why i call it a state of mind.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lebkuchen]

115. Don't forget their love of historical mythology and idealism

Maybe the Feds screwed up when it told the south they couldn't own a slave.

[white_wolf]

120. Idealization of a mythical past is the very foundations for Fascism.

I mean actual Fascism. Mussolini talked of restoring the Roman Empire, Hitler wanted to return Germany to it's glorious past. When you hear people talking about going back to our glorious past be careful. That is the talk of the Mussolinis and Hitlers of the world.

[lebkuchen]

125. What mechanisms does the US have as its defense to fight fascism

within its own borders? Or the world's democratic countries' mechanisms to fight fascism in the U.S.?

I loved Jens Stoltenberg's defense of "more democracy" for Norway.

What about the U.S.?

There are only two viable parties. If one party wipes out the other (due to the other party's idiocy and self-destructive tendencies), then how do we ensure a democracy? Right now the Democrats are forced to "dance with the devil" because there are no other dance partners.

With the wingnuts self-marginalized, maybe that's when the liberals can branch off into their own actual labor party.

[bobthedrummer]

119. K&R n/t

[JCMach1]

121. Not bumpkins, these 'know nothings' know exactly what they are doing

they are out to destroy the government.

[nadinbrzezinski]

122. They still hate any book learnin' which is what this refers to

We settled on ideocrats.

[bobthedrummer]

123. L_E_A_R_N_E_D

:7

[JCMach1]

127. America has always had an anti-intellectual strain in the 'intellectual' life of the nation...

I think today's situation goes well beyond that long-running schism.

These people do have a system of knowledge... it's just not 'rational'...

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. Yep, it goes to at least the first great revival

in the 1740s... absolutely... this is more virulent than usual though, as you very correctly point out. It was a tension in the body politic for as long as the country has existed.

[JCMach1]

131. It definitely harkens back to the Puritan origins of the American self

In some ways that's exactly it... it's virulent right-wing religion. We always joke about thing like the talibornagain on DU, but it really seems to go well beyond joke. They are actively plotting and infiltrating government.

Talk about sleeper cells...

[nadinbrzezinski]

133. And the leaders of our party

and many in the cities (and country side) do not speak of this. I mean it is not something that is nice... so we just don't.

This is exactly the problem. It is time we FRAME it for what it is... even if some feelings will get hurt.

[JCMach1]

136. Exactly, civility in the face of incivility is just well...

plain stupid...

The right stopped being civil after 1994.

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JCMach1]

140. Exactly correct, or on the left anyway we get called out...

Krugman's latest article on the shifting is dead-on about how the media has shifted the middle.

There just simply isn't a middle any more.

[JuniperLea]

126. Sure sounds a lot like my country cousins...

Obama's degrees are just pieces of paper donchano. I'm sick of this crap.

[JuniperLea]

129. The Idiocracy...

Of course.

[Union Scribe]

135. Ugh

I'm growing weary of your lecturing and your "boys and girls" condescension. I'll have to remember to check the author before clicking on any more of these "let me tell you how it is" threads.

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. Well you could also use what I will no longer use myself

the ignore poster if this bothers you so much.

Then there is the hide thread... that I will use from time to time.

[aaaaaa5a]

139. I call it the Y'all vote! nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

143. Where I live anyone who studies is a "showoff".

That's what the rectum next door said when I played the piano in MY house, showing her around my house. I ripped through a bit of Chopin on the piano and she yelled
"SHOWOFF!"

She also said "BUDDDHISM IS VOOOOO DOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!" and crossed her forearms for protection from my pagan statues.

She killed her sago palm and hates her beautiful magnolia tree.

Me? I put up a six foot tall wooden privacy fence to repel her bad juju.

[white_wolf]

145. That shows her ignorance of Buddhism.

Since Buddhist don't worship those statues, I'm sure you know that and I'm not trying to lecture you on your religion I just get annoyed when I hear stupid people say stuff like that. I consider myself more of a Buddhist than anything else, so I especially get annoyed about ignorance relating to that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. And we all learn something every day...

I never asked at the Chinese place we go to... I know those are food offerings... so me silly ignorant... and never have had the time to actually research it.

Now you spiked my curiosity, thank you.

Oh and the food, is REALLY GOOD.

[white_wolf]

153. Tradionally Buddhists reject any worship of the Buddha

who is viewed as a spiritual teacher and guide. As i spread Buddhism adopted the traditional practices of the areas it spread too, but those aren't considered necessary for enlightenment. A good example of this is Tibetan Buddhism which absorbed the native Bon religion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

154. Thanks I will have to do some ahem readying

As I said I never asked, even though I am curious. Partly their first language is not even Mandarin... and we have issues with English at times.

We love their food though.

[hifiguy]

159. The Buddha is an example, not one to be worshipped.

The Buddha wished to be remembered as nothing more than he who awakened. Everyone, so it is said. has Buddha nature - it's just a question of having the discipline to realize it in practice. I have always been attracted to Buddhism because there's no vengeful, angry godhead to be placated. But as a longtime atheist I have no time for gods of any kind.

[white_wolf]

160. There are some Buddhists who argue there are no Gods at all either.

The Buddha was agnostic on that issue, because he didn't think it mattered one way or the other. If God exists that still doesn't help with suffering and if he doesn't exist he can't help with suffering. A lot of scholars have interpreted the gods that appear in Buddhism to be a manifestation of his own psyche. When he is being tempted by Mara to stop his quest for enlightenment he is really overcoming his own doubts and weaknesses.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

176. I gave this woman a 5 minute speech about who the Buddha was.

She didn't listen. I wasted my breath.
All the xtians I run into around here think that Buddha is worshiped as a god, which is wrong.

I have corrected a man who said, "You won't go to Heaven if you worship Buddha and meditate."

I told him Buddha is REVERED as an enlightened person, he is NOT worshiped as a god, and that he didn't know what he was talking about. This is a right wing xtian fundie who goes to some little tiny independent church.

His response to my correcting his misconception about Buddha: "Oh".

[Kip Humphrey]

144. Ignoracists.

[hifiguy]

155. It's like George Carlin said

Think of the average person. Half of the population is dumber than that.

Hating the educated, and education, has been in this country's DNA since the last of the founding fathers died. Which is amazing, because Franklin, Jefferson and Madison, et al., were some of the smartest and most far-sighted people on the planet in their time.

Nowdays people are PROUD to be stupid and brag about it. :puke: A society like that gets the fate it deserves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. The Founders were one of the two sides though

The Enlightened country gentleman who collected books and almost worshipped Locke (that be Jefferson) was one end. The other were the people involved in the First Great Revival, which was revolutionary, democratic, and throughly distrusting of any book learnin'

They existed together in the 1740s... or rather coexisted together.

Writing the history of labor I have noticed that one of our problems is that even history is so darn compartmentalized that we really cannot see the whole picture... and general histories tend to be political histories celebrating the elite histories.

[white_wolf]

177. Perhaps we need a balance of the two aspects.

We need the respect for knowledge of the Enlightenment era with the revolutionary,democratic tendencies of the great revival era. Though I'll admit I could do without the religion.

[undercutter799]

156. anti intellectualism sums up the rightwing

[Morizovich]

163. "This is what you want, this is what you get."

http://youtube/2Lv1nRmaeoU

[spooky3]

166. How about "burbkins"?

Bumpkins from the suburbs. Or "exurbkins", since it's often the people in the exurbs, farther from the city center, who are guilty as charged.

[nadinbrzezinski]

168. It is a state of mind

idiocrat...

Settled on this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1615665

And it is far from geographically specific

[Hatchling]

167. Right Wing Extremist Terrorists.

That's what I call them because that's what they are.

[jhasp]

169. Disappointed....

I was expecting a picture of Scott Walker. :(

[nadinbrzezinski]

171. For ya

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GKedXWWjLY4/TbUtdxIcplI/AAAAAAAAC2I/aO6UYAfWhsw/s1600/Sad+Scott+Walker.jpg

And welcome to DU

:hi:

[calimary]

170. My husband uses the term "Know-Nothings" to refer to them all the time.

[lbrtbell]

178. That's "bumpkin", not "bumpking"

An educational moment brought to by one of the "anti-intellectual" rural dwellers you hate so much.

Do you honestly think city people are so much more brilliant? Bill O'Reilly is a native of NYC. And there are a hell of a lot of people in urban areas who care more about getting involved in street crime than getting an education. You'll also find that there are a lot more smart kids getting bullied by morons in the cities and suburbs than in rural areas.

Incidentally, the high-school dropout rate is far lower in small towns than in cities. That's because we're more concerned with "book learnin'" than nightclubbing and mall trawling.

[white_wolf]

181. Have you read this thread any?

The OP has said numerous times that bumpkin was a poor choice of words and she was trying to convey a state of mind that has is not related to geographical location or class.