Ocean Life May Be on Edge of Catastrophe

[marmar]

via truthdig:



Ocean Life May Be on Edge of Catastrophe
Posted on Jul 29, 2011



Flickr / Tina Hsu
Sardines, mackerel and anchovies lie dead in a California marina.


An extinction event “unprecedented in human history” is probably under way in the world’s oceans, according to a report recently released by a panel of 27 scientists reviewing the latest research from all areas of marine science. The destruction is occurring at a faster rate than was previously expected and the die-offs are graver than the worse predictions.

Marine extinctions of this scale have occurred before in geological history, with each episode seeing much of the Earth’s plant and animal life on land destroyed as well. —ARK

The Independent:

The world’s oceans are faced with an unprecedented loss of species comparable to the great mass extinctions of prehistory, a major report suggests today. The seas are degenerating far faster than anyone has predicted, the report says, because of the cumulative impact of a number of severe individual stresses, ranging from climate warming and sea-water acidification, to widespread chemical pollution and gross overfishing.

The coming together of these factors is now threatening the marine environment with a catastrophe “unprecedented in human history”, according to the report, from a panel of leading marine scientists brought together in Oxford earlier this year by the International Programme on the State of the Ocean (IPSO) and the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN).

The stark suggestion made by the panel is that the potential extinction of species, from large fish at one end of the scale to tiny corals at the other, is directly comparable to the five great mass extinctions in the geological record, during each of which much of the world’s life died out. They range from the Ordovician-Silurian “event” of 450 million years ago, to the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction of 65 million years ago, which is believed to have wiped out the dinosaurs. The worst of them, the event at the end of the Permian period, 251 million years ago, is thought to have eliminated 70 per cent of species on land and 96 per cent of all species in the sea.

Read more

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/life_in_the_oceans_may_be_nearing_its_end_20110729/

[FLPanhandle]

1. Recommend

So many countries even in the 1st world rely on the seas for food. It's going to get ugly for humans before this century is done.

[Lorien]

6. Not just food, oxygen

We depend on ocean flora for 65 % of our oxygen. Since we are alsondestroying our forests at record rates there will soon be nothing left for us to breathe, either.

[swilton]

42. Not to worry

The market will take care of everything :sarcasm:

[Enthusiast]

107. Yes. The sacred "free market".

The one worshiped by the right wing.

[MH1]

30. your last sentence - sad but I fear you are very right.

recommended

[chervilant]

85. Before this DECADE is done... n/t

.

[SlicerDicer-]

140. Well at least I am sharing my pictures free :)

http://slicerdicer.imgur.com/

Feel free to look at the oceans around Hawaii. There is much damage yet much beauty I wonder how long it will last.

[lunatica]

2. When ecosystems are out of balance this happens

Massive dye offs is just the end result of a series of events. These fish are food for larger fish which will be the next to die off.

I don't think there's a thing we can do about it either. any remedial steps are probably too late now. And they're not likely to happen if our government is any indication of what humanity will do to avoid disaster.

[CoffeeCat]

101. I agree...the die offs would be the final...

...step. We had many warnings. Things have been changing for the worse, for decades.

It takes years and years of environmental abuse to cause a mass extinction. The mass
extinction is the last step, and it's very scary to understand that we are about to
experience the consequences of decades of horrendous, reckless behavior.

Once these events begin to happen, it really is too late.

Wow. We're so stupid, we wrecked our only home.

[Marblehead]

3. end product of

capitalism run a muck. Cheaper to dump toxic waste into the ocean than dispose of properly etc.etc.

[FLPanhandle]

4. More like an end product of over-population

Too many people world wide treating the oceans both like a pantry and a toilet.

[GliderGuider]

16. +1 for great minds thinking alike. nt

[Enthusiast]

109. There have been a number of DUers

argue that human population is not a problem. Of course we know they are freepers disguised as Duers. Otherwise they could not be so FUCKING STUPID!

[GliderGuider]

14. End product of too many people. The reason there are no fish left in the oceans is

We ate them.

Homo sapiens is the is the single most rapacious, destructive influence to be visited on this planet. I hope we're about finished.

[tex-wyo-dem]

37. We've allowed ingnorance & greed to trump wisdom and our better nature...

it will be our downfall.

[The Doctor.]

76. Not 'allowed', precisely.

We have been lied to, and enough people are so totally unaware of the reality, that nothing has been done at all.

We're looking at a serious catastrophe.

[dana_b]

44. I heard on the local progressive radio station

that we will be over 7 billion next month and are expected to reach 9 billion by 2050. This is going to get ugly fast.

[jwirr]

46. That is assuming that we have not caused our own die off by 2050.

The Horn of Africa is very close to a die off right now - especially if crops continue to fail elsewhere.

[defendandprotect]

60. The destruction is accelerating ...

even more rapidly than any scientists ever imagine --

We are only now feeling the effects of human activity on the planet up to about

1960 -- because there was a 50 year gap in our feeling the effects.

Other than the melting of the glaciers which began in the 1940's --

[Enthusiast]

110. Real fast.

The filth think they will be safe behind their gated communities. And they might be for a while. But eventually there is the inevitability of some, as yet, unknown pathogen that will decimate any population that grows so large.

[defendandprotect]

124. "Over 7 billion next month" ... expected to reach "9 billion by 2050" --

Yikes!

[kestrel91316]

131. We will never even hit 8 billion, IMHO. The collapse will happen before then.

[defendandprotect]

58. Plus we ate the large fish -- the reproducing fish -- and threw back the young ones -- !!!

Have to agree that this species is doomed -- !!

[Enthusiast]

112. It is so easy to see.

But some choose not to look.

The blue fin tuna for one example. Speculators are making a fortune in Japan on the ever diminishing resource. How fucking stupid can they be? Now there is the very rare 1000+ pound blue fin caught when they used to be commonplace. This should be a wake up call, but no. Same with so many species.

Cod were so plentiful on the East coast of the U.S in the 19th century that they threatened to sink the harvest boats. Now look at it. Incredible. Just a simple moratorium.......sickening.

[defendandprotect]

115. Sigh ... and it's so much more than even that when you consider that we could

have been truly enriching all of our lives -- not by accumulating dollar bills

and destroying nature, but by enjoying nature and embracing one another.

Those who look at the world make clear that we could have skipped all the insane

"bus-i-ness" and been way ahead of the game -- saved the planet and nature.

Think that seems clear to most of us --


Quite a difference between the money seeking Columbus/Western Europeans and the

Native Americans -- a vast sea of stupidity that separated us!!

Most of all that stupidity seems caused by the invention of the dollar bill.



:hi:

[Enthusiast]

123. I know it.

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

57. "Congress is under the control of Oil and Coal Industries" -- Al Gore/Rolling Stone --

[Zorra]

5. " and let them rule over the fish of the sea

and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Epic fail.

[Ilsa]

7. Dear God: you screwed up when you left it

unclear that "your people" are supposed to take great care of the planet, not destroy it to make a buck.

And Pastor John Hagee equates environmentalism with Paganism.

[Pooka Fey]

13. Pagans worship the earth, they don't wreck and exploit it.

We wouldn't be in this mess without the Christian worldview that God gave humankind dominion over the earth's creatures. Which generalizes to "suck it dry and throw away the shell" :mad:

[Ilsa]

38. I know. Hagee thinks that Pagans are idolators, and lumps

environmentalists in with Pagans because they value the natural world. Hagee wants Men to be able to rape and pillage the natural world.

[Pooka Fey]

54. Idolators. LOL!!!

I guess Idolatry is OK for Reverend Hagee, as long as you fall to your knees in front of the "Golden Calf" and not some damn Oak Grove -- (the 'Golden Calf' would be a symbol for "Money" for those of you without a good theological, catechism, or Western cultural background...)

Oh wait...when the Israelites did that in the story of Moses, God smote them and punished them by forcing them to wander in the desert for 40 years.

Those "pick and choose" Christians....:shrug:

[Enthusiast]

116. "Pick and choose" is exactly right..........nt

[chervilant]

87. O,

because it's their God-given right, doncha know? With their mythical sky daddy, they can justify anything.

[Enthusiast]

114. Hagee.

What a specimen. His followers should recognize him for what he is at a glance. But they cannot see. They are blinded by the stupid.

[lunasun]

133. worldview that God gave humankind dominion over the earth's creatures

yes like it is all there for them alone
strange religions JudeoXtianIslam

The earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons and daughters of the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected.

Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons and daughters of the earth. We did not weave the web of life, we are merely strands in it. Whatever we do to the web we do to ourselves."
— Chief Seattle

"Tribe follows tribe, and
nation follows nation, like the waves of the sea. It is the order of
nature, and regret is useless. Your time of decay may be distant, but
it will surely come, for even the White Man ... cannot be exempt from the common destiny."
— Chief Seattle (Chief Seattle's Speech)

Say it brother!!

[Pooka Fey]

12. +1. very well said.

[FLPanhandle]

15. "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth"

This should have read "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, until you hit about 2 billion people, then stop or you'll fuck up the whole planet".

[jwirr]

49. That verse has especially been misinterpreted by modern capitalism.

There is nothing in capitalism that calls for husbandmanship - taking care of. Capitalism simply assumes that they can treat nature anyway it chooses and God will take care of the rest. Sorry you idiots - God is telling us in this verse to take good care of nature not destroy it.

That is an old argument. I was raised in farm country before the era of the BIG farm and the verse was always used as part of the idea of husbandry - taking care of in that era. Farmers worked on improving the soil using the ideas of composting not artificial fertilizers. Conservation of soil was a number one priority.

For the BIG farmer that day is gone. I suspect that we have treated the oceans the same with the idea that there is nothing that is finite.

I agree with the poster who said that we are probably too late to stop this. However we can possible do something about the whole destruction of nature on a smaller scale on a local basis. Our rivers, our lakes, even our ponds. I hope so.

[former9thward]

74. This has nothing to do with capitalism.

The Soviet Union, eastern europe and China were and are the largest polluters on earth.

[chervilant]

89. Wrong...

In terms of CO2 emissions, the United States and China are the worst (5,903 and 6,018 million metric tons annually--respectively). Russia and India are a distant third and fourth (1,704 and 1,293 mmta--respectively). China only recently surpassed the US in terms of CO2 emissions.

In terms of total primary energy consumption, the United States is off the charts compared to every other industrialized nation. In the US, total consumption per year (in trillions of BTUs) is 101,553.86. China has the next highest annual energy consumption at 77,807.73 trillion BTUs. Russia is next at 30,354.82 trillion BTUs, then Japan at 22,473.19 trillion BTUs.

If you are a survivor of our nation's co-opted system of public education, your ethnocentrism is not surprising. However, at this point, belaboring which nation is the worst polluter is an egregious waste of time and energy.

[former9thward]

96. You are posting statistics which are not relevant to this issue.

The Soviet Union and China have virtually no pollution controls on their heavy industry. They not only poisoned the air but poisoned their rivers with pollution run off. It is not a waste of time determining what nation is the worst polluter when you have the mistaken believe a particular economic system is behind it.

[chervilant]

98. Wow...

Still DREADFULLY wrong. Why is it so important to you to blame the pollution of this planet on Russia and China, but NOT the United States?

The United States has been polluting this planet for decades, and it is NOT a 'mistaken belief' that capitalism has served as an effective accelerator of the WORST forms of pollution. Witness--as one extremely relevant example--the United States' continued pursuit of nuclear energy, despite the fact that no one has developed a protocol for long term storage of radioactive waste (does the irony escape you that we don't even mention the DISPOSAL of such waste?).

Your ethnocentrism is not surprising, given the deceptive and propagandized pablum served up as history in our system of public education, particularly during the last five decades. In fact, you epitomize the pitiable contingent of US citizens determined to promote mindless, optimistic devotion to our nation's industrial 'progress.'

BTW, the United States produces almost 25% of all CO2 emissions, far more than any other nation on the planet. Yet, US corporatists are adamantly opposed to participating in the Kyoto Accord, or doing anything to mitigate the current level of CO2 emissions.

Our species richly deserves our impending ecocide.

[former9thward]

99. "Our species richly deserves our impending ecocide."

Your self hatred towards humans and all things United States is not surprising either.

[chervilant]

102. hmph

Acknowledging the inevitable consequences of our species' unfettered hedonism does not constitute hatred--of self or anyone else.

[izquierdista]

100. He said Soviet Union, not Russia

The Soviets left a horrible ecological legacy -- Chelyabinsk and the Aral Sea, to name just two. Russia has had to clean up a little, but they are still not as conscious of the environment as Western Europe.

What it shows is that it is not capitalism that is the underlying culprit, but something more basic -- growth. Both western capitalists and the Communist Soviets wanted growth, and they both trashed the environment to get it.

[chervilant]

105. So?

The Soviet Union no longer exists, and Russia encompasses much of what was once the Soviet Union. In short, Russia is recognized by many as the current incarnation of the former Soviet Union. BUT, all of this is beside the point.

Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine and Marilyn French's Beyond Power have helped me understand how capitalism promotes greed and entrenches its sycophants in a financially stultifying hierarchy, which concentrates power and wealth in the hands of a VERY few at the expense of the very many. I am never surprised when someone born and raised in capitalism fights tooth and nail to defend it, because that is how the system works: dangling the proverbial wealth carrot so that the hoi polloi is deluded into believing 'we too can be wealthy if we just work hard enough and live frugally.'

Lastly, if we MUST play the blame and shame game, let's lay that blame precisely where it belongs: at our own feet. Our species is perniciously hedonistic. Now that it's time to 'pay the Piper,' we'd best not whinge about it.

[izquierdista]

111. I wouldn't say the whole species

There are many tribes of people, labeled as "primitive" by modern industrial societies that live more in harmony with nature. They harvest what they can use at the time, not as much as they can sell to outsiders to make themselves "rich". It's true that capitalism, by harvesting as much as possible as quickly as possible causes great environmental damage. But North Korea, the country the furthest removed from capitalism is an ecological disaster too. They took a Korean society that was very sustainable and, in the desire to be modern and industrial, laid waste to the forests and damaged the farmland.

[defendandprotect]

129. And what did the 48th Parallel, indiscriminately drawn by Kissinger have to do with that?

It divided the nation in an insane way --

There is nothing on this planet which USA/capitalism hasn't destroyed with its

warmongering, its coups and its exploitation.

[defendandprotect]

128. True -- our schools have taught that capitalism is synonymous with democracy ...

rather, it is the very opposite!

[chervilant]

149. Yes,

conflating democracy with capitalism has been a deliberate ploy to make the entire Ponzi scheme much more palatable to the myriad members of the hoi polloi lacking in critical thinking skills.

[defendandprotect]

127. Soviets threw nuclear waste into North Sea, US threw nuclear waste into Pacific ....

USSR subsequently offered to work with US to try to clean up what could be found of it --

US refused --

What of our Superfund sites which still haven't been cleaned up -- ?

Most of it MIC --

Presumably the ATOMIC ERA that USA put in motion has nothing to do with pollution or

Global Warming -- or illnesses around the world?

How many wars by the USA to date -- ?

How much violence has the US put in play around the globe?



There's also an old Russian joke which goes this way --

"Q: "What's the difference between capitalism and communism?"

"A: "Under Capitalism man exploits man --

Under Communism it is just the reverse -- "

[defendandprotect]

126. US and capitalism and its Superpowerdom/MIC have been at it much longer ...

if you want accountability --

Who has been responsible for decades of wars over the planet -- even today --

none but the USA.

Because there was a 50 year gap in our feeling the effects of Global Warming --

presuming the public became aware in the late 1950's -- we are only now beginning to

feel the impact of our human activity up to about 1960. Imagine all America did after

that date!

The glaciers have been melting, however, since the 1940's --

Wherever capitalism has show its face, the ugliness of exploitation has ensued.


Who but America dropped atomic weapons on Japan?

Who but US created the atomic era?

[chervilant]

148. + a gazillion

You would probably appreciate LaFeber's "The American Age." It's truly an eye-opening read.

[jwirr]

91. In our country it does and business in all those areas are run just

like capitalism regardless what they call it. It is the bottom dollar that counts.

[former9thward]

95. Ohh the old socialists are really capitalists when they are bad argument

But anything good , well that is socialism!

[wickerwoman]

139. China hasn't been a purely socialist society

since Deng Xiaoping introduced the "socialist market economy" in the 1980s. They're basically capitalists with a few holdover state-run enterprises and a little more lip service to social programs.

What really killing off the planet is:
1.) the insistance on using "growth" as the only important measure of a country's progress
2.) the refusal to acknowledge the limits of resources
3.) the reluctance of most people to behave ethically when other people suffer (or will suffer) the negative consequences of their actions


The problem is the "growth is good, more growth is better" model and while capitalism is the posterchild, other economic systems have also engaged in this fallacy.

[Enthusiast]

118. Mostly it's authoritarianism

and cronyism. In other words: the good ol' boy's club.

[defendandprotect]

125. It has everything to do with capitalism and its suicidal exploitation of nature ....

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime --

Destruction of nature is a Crime against humanity --


Scientists recognized during the late 1980's that we were negatively impacting

the trees --

Took only 500 years for us to destroy this continent -- which was taken from

the Native American by the most precedent setting violence since the Crusades --

and come to think of it, same people running both according to the Papal Bulls --

"Enslave them or kill them!"

Genocide vs the Native American was an introduction to our own futures.

[kestrel91316]

132. IIRC we pollute a lot more per capita then anybody else.

[chervilant]

88. hmm...

I've argued with other DUers that organic farming methods both yield more and enrich our soil. If even the 'left leaning' folk buy the corporate lies, it's highly unlikely we'll avoid our own extinction event.

It couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch...

[defendandprotect]

62. Organized patriarchal religion isued the licenses for elites to exploit ... "Manifest Destiny" ...

and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" --

As the underpinning for patriarchy, organized patriarchal religion has been used for

conquest over nations, people and NATURE --


Elite exploittion of nature, natural resources, animal life -- and either other human beings

according to various myths of "inferiority" -- gender, race, sexual orientation --

genocide vs native peoples.

The Cross introduced with the sword --




Patriarchy -- and its underpinning =

Orgnaized Patriarchal Religion -- and its economic inventopn =

Capitalism =

The Unholy Trinity

[Enthusiast]

113. Epic stupid.

I hope for the day when a candidate for office is ashamed to admit they are 'Christian'.

[defendandprotect]

130. +1 --

[defendandprotect]

117. "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" ... licenses written by man -- !!!

[Cetacea]

8. ...

[Enthusiast]

119. Exactly

Why? It's the stupid, it's a disease.

[GliderGuider]

9. We have lost the oceans. It's that simple.

Now what, geniuses?

I'm so glad this cycle of civilization is drawing to a close. As a species we don't deserve a planet.

[Pooka Fey]

17. True, GliderGuider, humans don't deserve a planet...

Catastrophically, though, we are taking down all the innocent creatures with us. Too bad we couldn't just limit the damage to our own kind.

Wow, I'm really pissed off about this article.

[GliderGuider]

19. Yes, "livid" barely begins to suggest what I'm feeling right now.

I've read many "looming extinction" articles over the last ten years. Something about this one really hit me, though.

[defendandprotect]

67. Would guess that fairly soon the public will be waking up to Global Warming .....

but, sadly, I think they're going to find it's too late -- and oil and coal

industry won --

but what they've "won" is a mystery to me!!


One important thing left to do is to get all of these nuclear reactors shut down --

takes 6 months to shut down each of our 106 in the US --

Japan's require a year to shut down properly -- and don't know if either of those

figues accounts for the WASTE?


This may make the difference between "a whimper or a bang" -- !!!


Yikes!!


:hi:

[InvisibleTouch]

61. I've always said the same.

I don't mourn for the human species, I mourn for all the others they're taking down with them.

[defendandprotect]

68. +1000% -- We've destroyed a beautiful planet -- and its animal-life ... and Nature/Systems-!!

There's barely an animal on the planet we haven't genetically altered!!

[defendandprotect]

64. Can only agree -- and whomever made us "in their image" are obviously idiots -- !!!

[WinkyDink]

10. People with children ought to be concerned. Are they?

[GliderGuider]

18. I don't think we'll have to worry about our children.

Marine life facing mass extinction 'within one human generation' implies that the human experiment is drawing to a close much faster than we expected.

[WinkyDink]

80. Well, I for one have always thought the Mayans knew things.

[kestrel91316]

134. Not from what I can see. They keep buying gigantic perambulators and SUVs

and spoiling said children rotten with every electronic gadget under the sun.

[Pooka Fey]

11. Good job humankind! Your destructive power is on par with nature now!

:cry:

There is no doubt for me anymore. It's "Game Over" for life on the planet. I'm sure those scientists sounding the warnings at the U.N. are perfectly aware that no political leader anywhere in the world will do ANYTHING to mitigate the massive destruction of life of earth that is occurring. But the scientists have to do their jobs and report their findings, and I congratulate them for it.

That's all Folks. Might as well go out and have a good time while there is enough oxygen left on earth for physical activity. Thank you Britney Spears for giving us the anthem for the endtimes..."Keep on dancin' till the world ends"...(not being sarcastic, this is a genuine thank you).

So, say we have 20 years left - I am dedicating myself to the practice of my performing arts - before the lights go out.

[blindpig]

20. Were the oceans managed for human need instead of profits....

we could do a much better job of it.

Only a rational economy can save us, and that ain't capitalism.

[GliderGuider]

22. If the oceans were left alone for the benefit of the life that lives there

None of this would be happening.

The planet isn't a bag of Krispy Kremes for us to snarf up. Other beings actually live here.

[blindpig]

25. Yet we are part of the world...

and we are omnivores. Maintaining biodiversity is a mandate for a rational society. Beyond any aesthetic or other reasons it is simply good material sense, a self generating source of high quality food.

'Leave it alone'? That ain't gonna happen and ya gotta be realistic about that. Gotta be realistic and not project our personal views upon the issue. Material needs will always trump the non-material, we must manage these for the benefit of all and that very much includes management in the long term.

For example, I am personally annoyed that people eat turtles, critters for which I have inordinate fondness. Yet I would not criticize local folks for taking green turtles for their own sustenance and would aid them in perpetuating this harvest through good management.

We can do this, but not with the profit motive in place.

[GliderGuider]

32. I keep wondering how we'd feel if someone extended the argument just a bit further

And decided to rationally manage another country full of people as a profitable food source. A "self generating source of high quality food."

We're omnivores after all, we gotta be realistic about that.

[blindpig]

34. You are a vegetarian?

If so, well and good, but I don't think metaphysics has got anything to do with a rational society.

Your argument is a stretch to absurdity, though that does figuratively describe the condition of poor nation states in the capitalist system.

[GliderGuider]

36. Of course I am.

Yes, my proposition is a stretch, but there's a serious point in there. What part does morality play in our culture, and where do we draw the line?

The core of my value system regarding the natural world is Deep Ecology, a philosophy that maintains that all beings have inherent value apart from their utility.

[blindpig]

43. Deep Ecology

I am quite famaliar with that school of thought and have read a good bit, particularly Paul Shepard. There is a core of good materialist thought to be found there, a lot of metaphysical gibberish and some danger of a anti-human stance.

Me, I think like a swamp.

Morality is derived from the circumstances of society and cannot be imposed.

[GliderGuider]

45. A "danger" of an anti-human stance?

I prefer to think of it as the "benefit" of an anti-human stance. And one man's "metaphysical gibberish" is another man's core value.

Culture (including general morality and values) does indeed spring from our circumstances - the work of anthropologist Marvin Harris makes that abundantly clear. But just because the rest of my culture has decided to jump off a moral cliff doesn't mean I am obliged to follow.

In case you hadn't guessed, I'm not much of a philosophical materialist any more either.

[defendandprotect]

70. The true "absurdity" is what you can see has happened with your own eyes ... !!

From Global Warming to the pollution/destruction of the oceans --

Culture of violence -- pollution of soil, drinking water from run offs from killing

factories.

[defendandprotect]

69. Your life is based on nutrition from plants ... not animals ...

Who do you think has taught that nonsense except elites who needed "bus-i-ness" to

profit from? What you are offering is suicide --

Every animal you want to EAT is a herbivore --

That fact is what has provided the indirect nutrition people have gotten from animal-eating.


Plants are not only your nutrition -- they are your medicines -- a fact which elites have worked

to keep hidden from the public.



Yes -- capitalism and the inane profit motive have to be ended --

[saras]

81. "'Leave it alone'? That ain't gonna happen" - it IS going to happen, even if it means mammals vanish

That's the whole POINT. What is, is just vastly more important and more significant than the opinions of this current culture. It's the opinions that need to change, and they will.

[Cetacea]

155. self-delete

[The2ndWheel]

23. That sounds like we would be privatizing the oceans for human use

Sounds like capitalism.

[blindpig]

26. Not at all.

Humanity would 'own' the oceans. More importantly there would be no profits pushing exploitation to the max. Humans are going to use the oceans, they are a fantastic resource. But the oceans must be managed ecologically, biodiversity must be maintained and it should be ecologists and not the board of directors who make the calls.

[The2ndWheel]

78. Humanity is just one of many though

You know how the board of directors managing things screws everything up for everyone outside of the boardroom? Works the same way when humanity tries to manage something as complex as the planet, including the oceans. For humanity to own the oceans would be privatizing the profits for ourselves, and socializing the costs to the rest of life. We want to write the rules which govern us, as we don't like the laws and regulations of the planet(sort of the same way the big corporations don't like government regulations). So we want to manage the oceans for our benefit, and our benefit alone.

[FLPanhandle]

24. This has nothing to do with an economic system

It has everything to do with how many people are on the planet.

[blindpig]

27. The number of people....

particularly poor people, is directly affected by the economic system. Capitalism creates poverty, poverty always produces high reproductive rate. Reduction of poverty and education of poor women are the keys to reducing the reproductive rate.

[defendandprotect]

135. Well, how did you miss seeing patriarchy's role in overpopulation and condition of poor women?

Nature is pro-choice --

And has supplied women and families with diverse means of controlling population --

Plants are our medicines - our birth control -- the means to increase and decrease fertility --

Nature gave women the means of interrupting conception -- of creating infertility -- of

creating abortions -- of terminating even late term pregnancies.

It is patriarchy which destroyed those plants and that knowledge -- women's wisdom -- WICCA.


Ours is the only species where the male is at war against the females --

[tex-wyo-dem]

35. I'm one of those who believes that everything is connected in one way or another...

and the economic system we live under is certainly an issue. Capitalism basically runs on one thing, and that greed for profits. Greed trumps wisdom and squashes our better nature.

Capitalism requires never-ending expansion and growth to function, which is inherently unsustainable. We are quite literally killing ourselves and everything else to prop-up and economic system.

[Moostache]

73. Nothing can save us.

There is simply no way that right wingers and their ilk are EVER going to see the forest through the trees.

They do not believe in biology.
They do not believe in geology.
They do not believe in chemistry.
They do not believe in physics.

They believe in greed and money and power and that's it.

They may SAY they believe in other things, like Jeebus or "patriotism", but their actual beliefs in these things is directly proportional to the momentary political gain or advantage they can suck out of them to achieve their REAL aim - POWER....but not power to do good or shape the world in a better direct...power to steal more for themselves at the expense of everyone else. Blind ambition to chase the truly inconsequential - the material.

When we are all dead and gone and intelligence re-emerges on this rock from the insect world we leave behind, they may one day ponder the strange pieces of plastic and waste they find in the Earth and wonder "What were those beings thinking?"....or maybe they will be just as stupid as us and attribute it to the Holy Roach and his Son.

[Enthusiast]

121. Jebus is a cover for their greed.

In truth, they don't even 'believe' in Jebus.

[defendandprotect]

137. We have decisions to make -- big ones ---

We have littered the planet with nuclear weapons --

and nuclear reactors --

It takes 6 months to properly shut down our reactors in US --

and there are 106 of them -- about two in every state.


It will take one year to properly shut down Japan's reactors due to their design --

and I don't even know if any of those estimates include disposal of the WASTE.


This is what may make the difference between "a whimper and a bang."

[theophilus]

21. And where is the Corporate Media in all of this? This issue should

be blasting at the people of Earth. Even if the unthinking want to deny Global Climate Change, the sickness of our OCEANS should rate everything we can do to heal them. How many depend on the oceans for food and livelihood? For OXYGEN? Come on earthlings! Dig your heads out! Time is short.

[defendandprotect]

138. We have a CIA/Corporate-press .... not inclined towards truth -- ExxonMobil has been lying ...

to the public about Global Warming for more than 50 years -- spending tens of

billions of dollars to do it --

Their alliance with the NY Times for decades permitted them to run a column as an

Ad on the Editorial page which could not be responded to in any form -- Letters to

the Editor, etal -- because it was an "ad" and that was the policy of the NY Times!


If you've read Al Gore's recent Rolling Stone article -- he makes clear that our

Congress is under the control of the oil and coal industry.


A few years ago, the Royal Academy of Science called out ExxonMobil and the oil industry

for its 50 years of propaganda -- lies, deception, misinformation, and disinformation re

Global Warming and demanded they stop.


In checking that article recently, I found that the Royal Academy had been suited by

ExxonMobil and forced to withdraw at least some of their statements. Once again, truth

is destroyed by the power of wealth.


Further, as we saw with Obama's handling of BP's oil "spill" last year -- and in these two

wars for ten years now -- oil is a "national security issue" -- and oil industry has the

protection of our MIC/CIA.




Agree with all you've said -- and would also add that certainly Obama knows all of this

and our Democratic Party for decades has known it --

while Koch Bros. DLC infiltrated and influenced the party for 20 years!!



:hi:

[spanone]

28. duh. and republicans want to destroy the EPA

[Karmadillo]

29. If only the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and the White House.

nt

[flvegan]

31. I'm gonna have a tuna fish sandwich.

Don't mind me, just trying to fit in.

[Pooka Fey]

33. Tuna is so good for you, you should eat some every day!

[GliderGuider]

41. Race you to the last tuna!

Oops, looks like we all lose!

[GliderGuider]

39. Life

This piece I wrote yesterday bears directly on the ethical core of this story. Since it's my own writing I'm posting it in its entirety.

LIFE

As I look around at everything that's happening on this gorgeous blue marble, one thing comes through loud and clear. The world is a messy, unequal, unjust, intractable place. Hard on the heels of that realization comes another one. Most of us, me included, can't do a hell of a lot about any of it.

Of course, down that road lie cynicsm, anger and despair, all of which are incredibly toxic reactions. So those of us who have endured both these realizations have to find some action, no matter how small or close to home, that will let us leave a positive mark on our corner of the planet and in our own spirits.

One thing I feel called to do quite strongly is to advocate for life that can't advocate for itself. For example, I support the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society because they advocate for the whales in exactly that spirit. I make a point of contributing this perspective to personal and on-line discussions whenever it is appropriate.

However, since I think we already do a more than adequate job of advocating for human wants and needs (as a species, anyway), I don't generally advocate for human beings. I think we should be expending much more effort than we do to ensure that other species besides our own survive and thrive. This attitude is is not so much a matter of ideological or ecological purity as simple survival wisdom, but there is also the not-so-small matter of having respect for life itself.

To the extent that humans damage the future prospects of other life-forms that share the planet, we are part of their problem. And since the damage we are doing is significant, I see humans as a significant problem. I don't want to encourage us to become even more of a problem than we already are, so I take the fairly unpopular hard-line position of valuing non-human life even more than I value human life - even and especially my own.

If our species as a whole were to adopt this attitude I'd see it as an act of altruism - kind of like a mother giving up her own food to feed her helpless children. Since we haven't adopted those values, it remains up to individuals to remind us that all life has inherent value - and that the simple virtue of being the top predator on the planet doesn't give our life any more intrinsic value than the life of dogs, deer or dolphins.

So the core question is this: How much are we prepared to live within limits in order to avoid damaging other life on the planet any further? If our answer is "Not much at all," then none of us should be surprised by the inevitable outcome. A species that's already 50% into overshoot like we are can't continue growing for long without serious shit happening. Even clever tool-monkeys like us can't fool Mother Nature forever.

[Fokker Trip]

71. Very Nicely put.

I totally agree.

This quote in particular:

"I don't want to encourage us to become even more of a problem than we already are, so I take the fairly unpopular hard-line position of valuing non-human life even more than I value human life - even and especially my own."

I lost faith in humanity in a really deep way when I started to learn about how animals are raised and killed for modern meat production, those practices also have a huge impact on global warming.

Also much of the animal testing and vivisection(I imagine a small amount is probably necessary). This information left me unable to function properly for weeks, crying randomly.

If everyone had to spend some time in an animal lab and a slaughterhouse and they still wanted to eat the meat and use the animal tested products, then that might be fine. But our societies hide/are shielded from the reality of what happens, the horror and unspeakable cruelty of it. And we are surprised when violence permeates our society. Its like having a torture chamber in the basement of your house and trying to live like nothing is wrong. The foundation is corrupt.

One doesn't even have to be a vegetarian. If people ate meat once or even twice a week in a reasonable portion size, that would help enormously. Much more regulation and transparency at every stage of all meat operations. Also paying the true non-subsidized meat price would help. Many animal tests are repetitions of tests already done, funding is the incentive to continue. Dog and cat testing would probably be the best thing to show people (I know the videos left me a wreck) as they have that personal identification with the animal.

Many people today have no empathy(based in lack of childhood attachment and peer parenting) and this leads to very bad places.

It makes me sad beyond words that we will kill many, many of the wonderful creatures on earth before we as a species meet our demise.

And we are just clever monkeys but we pretend to be so much more. Arrogance, pure arrogance.

I don't know what the truly functional number is but the Georgia guide-stones peg the carrying capacity of the earth at 500 million people. Its going to be a long way down. Some friends were asking aloud at dinner what their children would likely face in the future. I said that one thing was for sure, that they would see billions of people die as the environment changes and collapses. I'm a great dinner guest.... :-/

[Pooka Fey]

141. This is a very lovely piece of writing, GliderGuider

Your first two paragraphs were especially moving, where you point out that the cynicism, anger and despair are toxic reactions. And that we have to find a course of action, no matter how small, to leave a positive mark on our small corner and in our own spirits.

WOW!!! This so hits home with me, and I must admit at this time that I am deeply lodged in cynicism and rage, and I'm having trouble finding comfort from my small actions which I know might leave a positive example. People who see me living without a car just consider me a broke loser, not someone who is making a conscious decision to reduce my personal CO2 emissions. People who see me recycling or insisting on recycling at work think that I'm wasting my time and their time "because it won't make a difference anyway." I've given up discussing Peak Oil with 99.99% of the people I have contact with, because A. It's pointless and B. People respond to bad news by killing the messenger - this subject equals social suicide. People who see me advocating for humane treatment of animals, especially ending factory farming techniques, and supporting Sea Shepard and other environmental causes, well... all I get is a blank stare --- there is no connection and no engagement.

And I have contact with mostly 'mainstream' intelligent and 'well-adjusted' people - people who are relatively engaged in the political process, etc.

Unfortunately the results of my journey toward understanding of the threats we now face, and my attempts at altruism to reduce my personal contribution to the planet's destruction, have resulting in me feeling even more ostracized and isolated from my flesh and blood community. Without the Internet and online discussions with like-minded individuals such as yourself, I would be truly lost. May I ask how you are able to leave or find a positive mark for your own spirit?

[GliderGuider]

145. What am I doing? How nice of you to ask.

First of all, I want to acknowledge what you say about the subject being social suicide. For many of us the initial realization of what's going on is truly apocalyptic, in both the original sense of "unveil, uncover or reveal", and the modern eschatological sense. This awareness is so obviously important that all of us who experience it seem compelled to try and share it. As you've found out, that sharing usually goes over like a lead balloon.

The reason I can speak so confidently about cynicism, anger and despair is that I went through at least five years of that toxicity. The feelings sprang from my dawning recognition that no teaching or exhortation on my part was going to make one iota of difference to how things turn out - the die is already cast. The despair was so deep that I contemplated suicide more than once. In the end I was extremely lucky, though. The suffering became so deep that I finally recognized it as a spiritual "Dark Night of the Soul". Even though I was and still remain an atheist, I realized that the door out had to be spiritual in some deeply personal sense. I felt that I was missing a sense of the sacred in my life. The resulting explorations led me to discover Deep Ecology, and from there I remembered the Zen I had learned 40 years ago, and that led in turn to Taoism and Advaita Vedanta. Along the way I had a couple of very strong inner experiences that gave me the perspective to understand that unfolding events simply are what they are, and that my suffering sprang from my psychological resistance to that basic truth.

Once I regained my equilibrium I was still left with the question I posed in my earlier post. Lecturing people to "Repent, the end is nigh!" doesn't work, so what do I do now?

I've done several things that are important to me.

The first thing is that I became a vegetarian. But this is about more than just eating vegetables instead of meat. I've made my eating a mindful way of honouring life. That means I eat organic food grown by people who care about the plants, not just the profits. Every meal becomes a reminder of my interconnection with all life. I also had the good fortune to meet a woman who introduced me to the concept of biodynamic farming, a philosophy and practice that dives even deeper into this orientation. And just yesterday by accident(?) we discovered a biodynamic farm operating nearby. I won't go so far as to say that eating has become an act of prayer, but it has certainly become mindful and meaningful.

The second thing is that I've given away all my money. That started as an involuntary process through a couple of divorce settlements, but I discovered that the less I had the better I felt. So all the money I gained from participating in the high-tech boom has gone to people who needed it - ex-partners and charities like Medecins Sans Frontiers and the Sea Shepherds. I routinely give to the homeless on the street in amounts that make them smile. A year ago I used the last of my savings to reconnect with my Twin Flame, a woman I had not seen or heard from in 30 years, in an act of mutual self-reunification. I suppose that if I was where I am now and still had the money I started with 10 years ago I'd use it in very different ways, but of course I couldn't have gotten here with the money. Life's funny that way.

The third thing is that I gave up my attachment to being a story about myself. Even though I had turned my life into a crazy-good story, I realized that the essential Me is not composed of the memories of past events. Instead it's about being right here, about what's happening in each moment. That understanding has led me to the awareness of the Self as Love, to the recognition of the connection of all things, and ultimately to the realization that everything is the same thing. With those realizations, all suffering about the course of world events has evaporated. In large measure this is because in this state there is no difference between "good" and "bad", there just is what is. It's a very mystical place to be, but I've noticed that many of the people who are coping sucessfully with "The Realization" have ended up here in the course of their journey.

The fourth and most important thing I've done is that I've become a "vocal witness" to the collapse. Another recent piece I wrote was about that, so rather than paraphrase, I'll repost it:

Bearing Witness to Collapse

Once I understood and accepted that the disintegration of our civilization is already underway, I spent a number of years trying to get people to change their beliefs and their behaviour. I felt that if they made the changes I was proposing they could make a "good" outcome more likely. I was disappointed when my exhortations and hectoring fell on mostly deaf ears - whenever I wasn't just preaching to the choir, that is. It was Cassandra's dilemma too.

The more I tried to promote change, however, the more I suffered. But the suffering didn't spring simply from the pain of disappointment. It went much deeper than that, and eventually precipitated my Dark Night of the Soul. The Buddha was right when he taught that all suffering springs from attachment. In my case the attachment was to a particular outcome - my vision of a sustainable, just, ecologically conscious society that made room for all living things on the planet, not just our relatives and friends. When that outcome was thwarted through public indifference and even hostility, I suffered mightily.

Fortunately, I went through a transformation about three years ago. The shift was complete enough that it enabled me to detach from outcomes while still remaining committed to the awareness of what's going on. At the same time I adopted the position that this reality is co-created by all its participants, and that at some level the nature of reality and our individual roles in it have been consciously chosen by us all. At that point, I realized that I had been working at cross purposes to the reality that was unfolding. The ongoing transformation, even if it becomes a collapse of civilization, is not meant to be stopped. Rather, it is the vessel within which our conscious awareness is being nurtured, developed and annealed. This leads to the rather uncomfortable conclusion that the collapse is not to be lamented or prevented, but rather to be celebrated and engaged. It will come as no surprise to those on similar journeys that when I surrendered to this understanding, my suffering ceased.

From that perspective, I decided that the most useful thing I can do - something that is aligned with the point of the exercise rather than in opposition to it - is simply to contribute my little bits of awareness to the field. I try to do it without expectation or attachment, without trying to elicit a particular response or outcome. Just put the awareness out there. Those who aren't ready for it yet will ignore or reject it, those who don't yet see it but are ready may awaken a bit more, those who are already aware may find some fresh nuance to play with. Whatever role my observations and discussions play in the unfoldment is the part they are meant to play. This is what I call "vocal witnessing".

I still care very deeply about what's happening, but I now remain relatively unattached to how it might unfold in the future. As a result I avoid talking about solutions as much as possible, largely because I don't think there are any - at least at the level most people think of "solutions" (like new policies or new technologies) The point of all this apparently catastrophic unfoldment is not for us to "solve the problem", but for for us to wake up.

I agree completely with the writer Charles Eisenstein (The Ascent of Humanity) and other observers - we do not have a soluble problem, we have an insoluble predicament. Because of that, our most useful response will be at right angles to the problem space. That means that the door out of this mess isn't going to be opened by a new version of our old ways (new legislation, clean energy and more recycling) although that will play a role. The real doorway out will be found by shifting into a completely new way of being - the revolution of consciousness that so many of us know in our bones is just around the corner.

These days I'm putting all my chips on abetting that r/evolution of human consciousness, by acting as a vocal witness to the unfolding collapse.

Within mainstream of environmental activism this position is still viewed as fatalism, defeatism, or sophistry - a tricky justification for fiddling while Rome burns. For those like me however, it represents the only possible response.

So that's where I am now and some of the things I've gone through on the way. I want to thank you again for giving me this opportunity. I wish you the best of (luck/fortune/grace) on your own journey.

[Pooka Fey]

147. Thank you for sharing this.

I cried while reading it. I'll read it again when I'm less tired - as you know from personal experience, this cycle that I am currently on with 'Collapse' is exhausting me. You've given me a lot to think about. :hug:

[CleanGreenFuture]

40. Human history is only 6000 years old. So, of course, it's "unprecedented in human history”.

[Uncle Joe]

53. Humanity's impact on sea life is unprecedented at least insofar as any species of life

adversely affecting other forms of life on a global scale.

[blkmusclmachine]

47. No one in DC is listening. No one. DC's only interested in "austerity," stealing our SS/M&M.

n/t

[Faygo Kid]

48. +1. Incredible.

[Uncle Joe]

50. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, marmar.

[Rex]

51. Well we are overdue for another mass extinction.

[lebkuchen]

52. Does it have to be man-made?

I prefer an asteroid--quick and easy.

[Rex]

63. No not at all. This has been a longtime coming.

Man may expedite the extinction, but we were due for one...and an asteroid and an eruption by the caldera in Yellowstone.

An asteroid does not instantly mean quick and easy and can mean slow and very painful. Careful what you wish for.

[Uncle Joe]

55. We're not overdue for a mass extinction unless we give up and let our actions guide us

toward that end.

[Rex]

66. We are overdue for one and not one by man's hand either.

If we pooled all our knowledge and recourses globally, maybe we could prevent it. You know we will never have a unified planet so that idea is out the window.

[Uncle Joe]

72. There are no dates for mass extinction, those disparate events are separated by cause and time span

ranging from millions to tens of millions of years and no species has so much control over its' destiny as humanity.

I believe we will have a unified planet, the patterns of history are strong evidence that we're heading in that direction, one thing is for certain though, giving up hope that humanity; can avert or diminish such a catastrophic event, would eliminate the possibility of ever dodging that bullet because we wouldn't even try.

[Rex]

94. Doesn't look like We Humans want to try.

But I am very cynical today, so I apologize.

[The Doctor.]

82. So because we were 'overdue', we went ahead and took care of it ourselves.

Got it.

You realized it could easily have been another 10,000 years before a natural extinction event?

What's happening now wasn't going to happen on it's own.

[Rex]

93. I doubt anyone planned for it to happen that way.

But no one can argue that the Industrial Revolution didn't changed the planets ecosystem. We might not actually have a mass extinction - it is a wait and see moment.

[defendandprotect]

56. Crimes Against Humanity -- extrodinary collaboration between White House and fossil fuel industry --

for decades --- "to keep this issue out of public view in the United States" --

The seas are degenerating far faster than anyone has predicted, the report says, because of the cumulative impact of a number of severe individual stresses, ranging from climate warming and sea-water acidification, to widespread chemical pollution and gross overfishing.

The observation is from Ross Gelbspan's "Boiling Point" re Global Warming --

As Al Gore made clear in his recent article in Rolling Stone ...

Congress is controlled by Oil and Coal industry -- !!

[Liberal_in_LA]

59. +11

[InvisibleTouch]

65. The vast majority of toxins are washed into the oceans.

Not to mention sewage, undersea oil gushers, and radioactive runoff. People really believe that the sheer volume of the oceans will dilute it all to the point of being harmless - if they think about it at all. "Out of sight, out of mind." Until it comes back to bite humanity in the ass.

The warning signs have been glaring for decades: coral die-offs, floating garbage patches the size of large states, top predators in decline. Those who have tried to sound the alarm have been yelling into the wind. It's not until major swaths of the human population are starving for food and oxygen that the message will get through. Too little, too late.

[GliderGuider]

75. We are "Burning Man".

We are burning 2 billion years of stored carbon, burning the topsoil, burning uranium to keep the lights on, burning the forests full of other eyes, burning the midnight oil trying to find some answers. And having almost burned it all, we are left with the thrillingly uncomfortable question, "Now what?"

[The Doctor.]

77. Ben Stein; "Grab a fork, and eat all you want. There's lots more out there."

Fucking asshole shill.

http://www.alaskaseafood.org/tv_ad/

[DCBob]

79. The world treats the ocean as a giant sewer.

sickening and a serious threat to our future.

[thelordofhell]

83. It's in the nature of animals.......and we are animals

If a species of animal is dominant in a region, it will continue to populate until the region cannot support their numbers. Then the dominant species will starve and die off until it dwindles to a number that the region can sustain it again. We are nothing but a tiny speck in the annals of great Mother Earth. It is the height of arrogance to think we could possibly destroy the planet when it is clearly the other way around.

[Uncle Joe]

86. Unless that animal or society of animals can gain a higher state of consciousness or awareness

as to the end result of just being driven by the instinctive urge to replicate itself.

One thing about advanced or industrial societies, their birth rates do drop from those developing nations; where more people are living on the edge of survival.

I agree we're not going to destroy the Earth but we damn sure have the capability whether consciously, nuclear war or subconsciously, global warming climate change to make the Earth uninhabitable for most all living species including humans.

I view the belief that humanity can trash the natural environment without regard to the grave consequences as being the height of arrogance.

How arrogant must we be to write off survivability for all succeeding generations because of our own insatiable, unbridled greed and want?

[drokhole]

97. Nailed it.

"This revolution has to begin, not with theory and ideation, which eventually prove worthless, but with a radical transformation in the mind itself." - J. Krishnamurti

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein

"When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." - Max Planck

"If we maintain obsolete values and beliefs, a fragmented consciousness, and a self-centered spirit, we also maintain outdated goals and behaviors. We need to empower the evolution of consciousness." - Ervin Laszlo

"The realization that nature is ordered organically rather than politically, that it is a field of relationships rather than a collection of things, requires an appropriate mode of human awareness. Fully expanded, consciousnesses feels an identity with the whole world, but contracted it is much more inescapably attached to a single minute and perishable organism. Our difficulty is that human consciousness has not adjusted itself to a relational and integrated view of nature." - Alan Watts

"A radical inner transformation and rise to new level of consciousness might be the only real hope we have in the current global crisis brought on by the dominance of the Western mechanistic paradigm." - Stanislov Grof

"A paradigm shift implies a change in the way we think about life that results in a change of behavior." - Penny Peirce

"In order to change an existing paradigm, you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete." - R. Buckminster Fuller

"If we do not change direction, we are likely to end up exactly where we are headed." - Old Chinese proverb


(sorry for the quote unload, just wanted to reinforce the point! :))

[Uncle Joe]

157. I like those quotes.

Thanks for the reinforcement, drokhole.:) :thumbsup:

[defendandprotect]

120. No animal species is as VIOLENT as the human species -- !!

No other animal species is at war with the female half of it's species -- !!

This violence is taught -- by patriarchy.


NATURE is pro-choice --

Women were given myriad ways to control reproduction -- drugs are our medicines --

our solutions --

Plants acted as birth control, enabled women to interrupt conception, to terminate

pregnancies, even to terminate late pregnancies.

Those plants and the knowledge of them were destroyed by patriarchy -- as was women's

wisdom -- WICCA.

Everything to do with reproduction was put into the hands of males --

even midwifery!


And this is nonsensical --

It is the height of arrogance to think we could possibly destroy the planet when it is clearly the other way around.

We've destroyed our own health and well being in polluting the planet --

We've destroyed animal species -- and long before that we altered about every animal on

the planet.


Global Warming has the power to change natural systems -- to create earth quakes and generate

new volcanic activity. El Nino and La Nina are part of Global Warming -- they were once

rare events and will become even more frequent.

There is no guarantee that the planet will keep turning.

Especially as all of this begins to compound.


Closing down the nuclear reactors should be an important step to be taken at this point.

106 nuclear reactors in US which require 6 months to be shut down properly.

Those in Japan take 1 year to shut down properly.

Could make the difference between "a whimper and a bang."

[Pooka Fey]

142. I believe we are talking about destroying the planet's species and living systems...

I don't think we are talking about "destroying the planet" in the literal sense of the planet's rocks and minerals which will surely still exist after all life is extinguished.

We humans are most certainly capable and are well on the way to destroying the planet's species and living systems such as the ocean. And when the ocean dies, there will not be enough oxygen for humans to survive. So who is ultimately responsible - Mother Nature or Humanity?

[thelordofhell]

143. The oceans won't "die" before we do

Once again, my point is that the planet will shrug us off like lice

[Pooka Fey]

144. ...a panel of 27 scientists reviewing the latest research from all areas of marine science...

is more credible than your DU post, thelordofhell. You can try to sell your opinion to me, that doesn't mean I have to buy it.

[thelordofhell]

153. What part of my opinion do you not buy

1. That there is no way we could ever destroy the oceans

2. That we're the most arrogant species on the planet

3. That the planet would go on just fine without us

If it wasn't for a rock from outer space, we'd all be dino-chow.

[Taverner]

84. And it gets worse...

Next time any of you speaks with a Republican, ask them how much they like seafood - because there will not be any soon

[Morizovich]

90. KICK!

(I've already recommended this.)

[frogmarch]

92. Here’s a video related to

ocean conservation: http://www.ted.com/talks/greg_stone_saving_the_ocean_one_island_at_a_time.html

The speaker is my BIL Greg Stone, Chief Scientist for Oceans at Conservation International.

[greytdemocrat]

103. Ted Danson warned of this long ago...n/t

[lonestarnot]

104. More evil in this corner.

[Enthusiast]

106. All in the name of Profit.

You know, another word for greed.

[chervilant]

108. "Time to die..."?

We humans are manifesting a level of mental dis-ease that is both frightening and corrosive. Far too many of us are in react mode, driven by inchoate fears and resentments. Far too many of us are willing to pollute our spirits with negativity, eagerly engaging in blaming, name-calling and other forms of vilification. Far too many of us are willing to glorify violence or resort to violence, often just for entertainment or personal gratification.

We seldom acknowledge the import of overpopulation, but Calhoun's research with rats has proven that when a critical level of overpopulation occurs, the outcome isn't pretty. With rats, abnormal sexual behavior, hyper-aggression, eating their young, and increased mortality are a few of the problems that occurred. With humans...well, isn't it past time we acknowledge that our species has passed a critical tipping point?

When I was younger (and naive) I thought our species was in its adolescence--obsessed with sex, drugs, and all other forms of self-gratification, especially as regards our economic behaviors. However, I've come to understand that overpopulation is THE macro-level manifestation of our species' hedonism. Regardless of how much energy we devote to denying the ravages of overpopulation, they are writ large in our increasingly sophisticated, increasingly corrosive socio-cultural and technological constructs--the very same constructs we use to remain in denial, and to externalize responsibility for our collective hubris.

Bearing this in mind, I feel overwhelmed with disappointment about the choices we (as a collective) have been making, because we seem to be moving inexorably back into 'balance' on a planetary scale. When it's time for Gaia to roll over and scrape us off Her backside, we’ll just have to go along for the ride. The inevitable consequences of our hedonism and denial of personal responsibility promise to be extreme.

[Enthusiast]

122. According to the Republicans and the

"Christians" we have no critical tipping point. SRSLY.

But we know it is only a matter of time before mother nature asserts herself. Maybe in the form of some unknown pathogen or unwanted "heavenly" body.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

136. no words except heartbreaking... nt

[GliderGuider]

146. Kick for the Sunday Funnies. nt

[TBF]

150. The only chance we have to save the planet is to get rid of the capitalism -

with a sustainable economic system that is based upon the needs of inhabitants (both people and animal), rather than profit at all cost.

We can argue over-population (and that is something we can certainly work on through education and access to resources such as birth control and good health care), but the main thing is to stop the destruction of resources for profit.

I am a pacifist at heart, certainly only think in revolutionary terms by necessity, and even I can see this is what needs to happen if we have any hope of saving our home.

[The2ndWheel]

151. This didn't start with the advent of capitalism

[TBF]

152. But capitalism will certainly finish it off. nt

[GliderGuider]

154. Any sort of material growth would have finished it off. The reason we focus on capitalism is

Capitalism is the only socioeconomic ideology of any significance left on the planet. It won out over all the others because it was most effective at keeping people happy and distracted as it raped the natural world. The others lost because they weren't as efficient at raping the natural world, or as effective at keeping people placid, contented and somnolent while they did so.

So yes, the seeds of our final destruction were built into modern capitalism from the beginning. Other systems were destructive to the natural world, but modern industrial capitalism turned that game into a multi-dimensional art form.

I hope I live long enough to see it crumble into dust.

[MoonRiver]

156. Humans have decided this world is ready to die.

nuff said