The Reid plan is just slightly less of an abomination than the Boehner plan

[MadHound]

One trillion in unspecified cuts, along with another provision for a "super Congress", no, sorry, but this will also be a set back to the economy. If this is the "compromise" that we wind up with, it will be another failure for the President and the Dems.

At this point, the best options are to either wait until the last minute, and then run through the typical one sentence clean debt ceiling bill, and failing that, have the president invoke the 14th Amendment.

We simply can't afford the kind of cuts the Reid plan is agreeing to, especially when we get what in return? No tax hikes, in fact more tax cuts? Sorry, but it is a bad plan.

It is Obama's caving on the public option, caving on the tax cut extension that got us into this mess, and caving in to another bad deal is not the way to get us out of this mess. It is time for the Dems, for the President to stand up and fight for what is right, not sell us all down the river in order to claim some sort "victory" or "compromise".

[DCBob]

1. it has to have something "abominable" to get a few Rs onboard.

I think its going to pass and the Prez will sign it.

[FBaggins]

6. What the president signs will probably be worse

The "compromise" bill will split the difference.

I don't think they're fighting over cuts any longer... They're fighting over whether there will be a balanced budget amendment and whether the president will have to run with another ceiling debate.

[DCBob]

7. I think the final bill will be a hydrib of Reids and McConnels..

it wont look anything like what the House passed.

[MadHound]

10. But it will be even worse that the Reid plan,

Gee, that's so comforting.

[DCBob]

16. Not really..

sounds like Reids is just going to add that provision about the giving the POTUS power to raise the debt ceiling with the additional provision of allowing congress the power to block it. That's essentially a non-issue since they wont have the votes to do it. However, it does give the Rs the opportunity to bash the President on this issue again during election year... but who cares? I dont think it will hurt him at all.. in fact it might help.

[MadHound]

28. Nice to see that you don't take into consideration the large amount of pain that the Reid plan,

Or whatever hybrid comes out, is going to cost millions of Americans. It's all about political wins and losses with you, isn't it, never mind the real life pain it costs the rest of us.

[DCBob]

30. you will see some serious "real life pain" if we dont come to an agreement on this debt ceiling.

this plan beats the very ugly alternative.

[MadHound]

31. Again, no, it doesn't,

Because the fact of the matter is that come the witching hour on Monday, if a clean bill is introduced I imagine it will pass with the help of sane 'Pugs.

And again, there is always the 14th Amendment solution.

Shoving this abomination of a deal down our throats using fear, Fear, FEAR is both wrong morally and entirely unnecessary.

[DCBob]

32. What makes you think a clean bill will pass?

There are no idications that would.

[MadHound]

33. Well, you add up the number of Dems in Congress to the number of sane 'Pugs,

And you get a majority. Desperation is a wonderful motivator, and I imagine that the corporate backers of those sane 'Pugs are burning up the phone lines this weekend demanding that their Congressional vassals stop playing this Teaparty game and take care of the business of this nation.

[DCBob]

34. Perhaps. I just dont see it happening.

[MadHound]

35. I do, it is real politics at its finest. n/t

[Lorien]

18. Which will cause greater problems down the line

It's all nothing more than manufacturing crisis in an effort to implement the Shock Doctrine,

[ewagner]

22. Give that man (person) a CIGAR!!!

The whole crisis was/is right out of the Milton Freidman shock and awe playbook...and we (as a nation) fell for it again.

[HereSince1628]

27. Seems to me they are fighting over 2012 election strategy

Each side wants the other to be handicapped in some way.

Whether or not programs that the majority of American people are good and worthy isn't even considered.

Whether destroying the US Dollar as the dominant international reserve currency is a good thing for corporations isn't even considered.

This has moved to the realm of truly serious politics...it's about biasing the context of national elections.

[MadHound]

9. And more's our loss,

I think that if the Dems held firm until eleven pm on Monday, then offered the typical one sentence bill to raise the debt ceiling, there are enough sane 'Pugs that it would pass both Houses.

The trouble is, if this Reid plan goes through, such a plan will throw our economy back into the ditch(not that we ever really got out of it). Not to mention that the Reid plan will put SS and Medicare up in line for the chopping block via this "super Congress".

And again, as liberals and others have been saying ever since the health care debate, sooner or later you have to stand up and actually fight the bully. If you don't, then you're going to get rolled time and again, just like we got rolled on the public option, on the tax cut extension, on the stimulus, etc. etc. In a bit over a month we have another chance for the 'Pugs to take a whack at the Democratic pinata in the continuance motion, and next spring is the budget, and on and on.

Stand up, fight, and do the right thing now. Don't sacrifice the American people for your own political expediency.

[Doctor Hurt]

2. No, it's time for Obama to do whatever it takes to save my 403k.

and frankly, if he has to deal with Republicans to do that, I'm OK with it.

[MadHound]

4. Save your 403k.

First of all, do you honestly think that this is going to save your 403k in the long run. We're staring another recession in the face(like we really ever crawled out of the first one) and having another trillion in cuts, with all the attendant job losses and economic slowdown, your 403k will be toast anyway.

Second of all, that you're willing to toss the weak, the poor, the elderly overboard in order to save your 403k says a lot about you, none of it good.

Third, if Obama and the Dems don't stand firm here, well, in a month we've got that continuance measure on the budget expiring, perfect for another contrived crisis, and then another next year over the budget, and after cave, after cave after cave, we will die of a thousand cuts.

Fourth, if you're going to play chicken, whether you want to or not, you've got to be ready to see it through. My bet is that when push comes to shove, at eleven pm on Monday, you will get enough moderate, sane 'Pugs in the House and Senate on board to pass the typical one sentence bill to raise the debt ceiling.

You can't allow this country to be held hostage by a minority faction in the 'Pug party.

[Bluebear]

8. Of course you're ok...because it's all about you.

[erodriguez]

23. Plant.

[Leopolds Ghost]

3. Methinks the previous two replies need to read up on the scene.

There's no way Reid's bill will pass, and if you're willing to sacrifice social services programs and social security pensions to protect your 401k, well...

[DCBob]

5. its much bigger than 401k's and pensions.. I think you need to read up.

btw, this bill will likely pass.. some Repubs are already coming on board.

[MadHound]

13. Yeah, it's about the well being of our country,

And the Reid bill will trash that well being.

Frankly, at this point, if we don't get a clean debt ceiling bill, I'd say invoke the 14th. I'd rather see a Constitutional crisis than a bad deal that gives us another economic crisis.

[DCBob]

19. It may come to using the 14th but I doubt it now.

there are reports coming out that "some" Rs are ready to agree to the Reid plan.

[Bluebear]

12. Pathetic ain't it??

[leveymg]

11. For some here, all that seems to matter is that it's "our" abomination.

Like in Vietnam, "we" won every major battle, but lost the one that counts - for the hearts and minds of the American people.

In the long-run, this episode will wound us worse, because we compromised basic principles more and it changed us forever in the eyes of the rest.

Principles are important - in the end they are what sustains a nation or a party. Once they're lost, well, you know the rest.

[MadHound]

14. And it's not just about principles, but basic economic sanity as well,

Such a set of wide ranging economic cuts, when our economy is already on a knife's edge is insane. We'll dive right back into a recession or worse. It simply makes no sense.

[leveymg]

20. Good point. Bad policy choices go right along with abandonment of principle.

in pursuit of pragmatic goals.

Ask Robert McNamara. He was "the smartest guy in the room" when some of those choices were being made.

[blindpig]

15. Dunno if I'd call it 'cave'.....

given the undeniable pattern it looks more like complicity.

It will be a bipartisan 'victory', the ruling class wins.

[mmonk]

17. On an entry on my Facebook page,

I wrote that I missed the two party system.

[ProSense]

21. Nancy Pelosi: Kiss your Medicare goodbye

Nancy Pelosi: Kiss your Medicare goodbye

Let's start a meme that Boehner's plan wasn't that bad, just a little more bad than Reid's. Let's convince ourselves and others that the only reason the Senate voted against Boehner's plan was politics because it wasn't that bad.


Reid's plan doesn't touch Social Security and Medicare. Boehner's plan was Cut, Cap and Balance.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. yay! our team is winning! yay!

you bad naysayers just shut up!

[MadHound]

29. No, but Reid's plan does call for some of the biggest budget cuts ever,

In a time of a fragile economy. Which means, as all conventional economic wisdom goes, and experience has shown, that our economy will go right back in the tank. Ooo, what a "victory".:eyes:

And no, Reid's plan doesn't immediately touch SS and Medicare, but the "super Congress" it sets up very well could.

[ixion]

25. Such is the policy platform of the party

"We suck just a little bit less than the other guys." :(

[B Calm]

26. It's way past time to raise taxes on the wealthy. It was those tax cuts that created

this mess!

[woo me with science]

36. Strong K&R

The math of it is cruel and outrageous. It will hurt the most vulnerable. It will keep the economy in the crapper and prevent job growth.

And to top it all off, this "Super Congress" is a Trojan Horse to strip our ability to defend ourselves from future attacks on the most vulnerable, including attacks on SS and Medicare.

We won't get the Reid plan. Obama is begging for a "compromise" between Reid and the Boehner plan.

But even if by some miracle we do get the Reid plan and SS and Medicare are spared for now, they will be back for them before you can open a can of peas. And this time they will have the "Super Congress" to bypass any remaining representatives who actually want to represent the people.