The 14th Amendment: either it applies or it does not; Obama will either use it or not.

[elocs]

Others can talk about it, Obama should not come out and say he will. He can allude to it, but you don't show your trump card, your ace in the hole, until the time is right and not beforehand. So just because Obama is not trumpeting that he will use the 14th does not mean he will not.

If Obama does use the 14th I don't see the Republicans trying to impeach him for it because there is a lot of discussion about whether it applies from many quarters. There is not a clear consensus that he cannot apply the 14 Amendment to the debt ceiling crisis. Ultimately it will be up to the Supreme Court.

In the end we will learn a lot about President Obama, one way or another, and we may like it or be disappointed. As it is said, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, but that is not altogether encouraging.

[dkf]

1. Who would buy that debt though?

Some are saying it would be invalid and the payments may be in doubt.

[Morizovich]

5. Exactly why I have unrecced this thread.

Excellent point!

[elocs]

9. Interesting that you would UnRec a thread which says the 14th either applies or it doesn't,

and Obama will either use it (if he believes it applies) or will not.

Evidently there must be some other unknown choices concerning the 14th Amendment.

[ecstatic]

16. "In the end we will learn a lot about President Obama..."

Maybe if you had kept your thread free of character judgments, it wouldn't have been unrecc'd? :shrug: You said it either applies or doesn't, then proceeded to imply that Obama is weak if he doesn't use it.

[elocs]

7. And some are saying it is valid and may be used. It is not unanimous opinion. n/t

[dkf]

13. What is the risk premium on a bond that you may not be able to collect on?

Will the Republicans force the issue in trying to establish that the President does not have the right to do this unilaterally?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/08/opinion/08tribe.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print

[flamingdem]

10. This is interesting, do you have more info on it, a link to an article?

Yes who would buy debt from a chaotic scenario like that...

No wonder we're scrod.

[dkf]

12. Lawrence Tribe says so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/08/opinion/08tribe.html

[flamingdem]

14. good info, thanks nt

[DCBob]

2. I think the timing is critical.. it has to appear there is no other option and..

the nation's security is at risk. Which means he might have to wait until after Aug 2.

[elocs]

3. Exactly, which is why he cannot trumpet "naa-naa, naa-naa, naa, naa,

I'm going to use the 14th".

[NYC Liberal]

8. Slight correction: there has to BE no other option and

the nation's security does have to be at risk (not just appear so).

And that will come when the deadline arrives and Congress refuses to act.

[DCBob]

15. agreed.

[kywildcat]

4. I hope he does

and I fear it will end his presidency. I think if he utilizes the 14th amendment-there will be no more legislation for the rest of his term. On the upside-I would hope that his announcement to the country, and the world for that matter would go something like this..
"....I have, in order to avert a constitutional crisis-signed an executive order. Mr. McConnell, Mr. Boehner, Eric Holder will be contacting you concerning a little matter of pledges to Grover Norquist-and the impact his pledge has had in your oath of office to uphold and defend the constitution. I suggest you take his call...."
a girl can dream.

[markpkessinger]

6. Two Chances

As I read your post, I had to chuckle, because it brought to mind a poem, a choral setting of which was composed by Jean Berger and the text source of which is simply listed as "unknown":

You have two chances:
One of getting the germ,
And one of not.

And if you get the germ, you have two chances:
One of getting the disease,
And one of not.

And if you get the disease, you have two chances:
One of dying,
And one of not.

And if you die, well,
You still have two chances!

Please pardon the off-topic digression!

[caty]

11. If an agreement is not made soon,

President Obama will invoke the 14th Amendment rather than let our country default. If the Tea Party is going to act like bullies, than the President has to step up and defend the country from them. He doesn't want to commit himself to doing that until every possibility for an agreement has been exhausted so he can prove that he had no other choice.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/obama-14th-amendment


This mess has been a real education for many voters. Many who voted for teabaggers have seen what they are really up to. They didn't get it when they first voted for them, but many get it now. It's easy to be against big government spending, until they take the money out of their checks that they can barely make it on now. The Tea Party is the end of the GOP as we know it - and it wasn't all that great anyway.