At this point the Democrats should give the terrorists everything they want

[Tony_FLADEM]

It's not popular to say this on DU but anything they don't like can be changed later on. I'm not a financial expert but I'm not certain you can undo the damage that would result from a default by the Federal Government. Let these fuckers have everything they want. The majority of Americans will remember what the Republicans tried to do to this country.

[Ohio Joe]

1. That idea...

Is as amazingly stupid as "Lets just default". Is everyone here all or nothing?

Sheesh.

[Tony_FLADEM]

2. It's easier to restore cuts to federal spending programs than it is to

restore the credibility of the United States if we default.

[Ohio Joe]

6. Must. Be. All. Or. Nothing.

Sheesh... I wish I could un-rec this twice.

[zappaman]

10. I helped you out there. K & UR n/t

[trueblue2007]

27. THAT IS OKAY.... I gave you another UN-recommendation.

[Tony_FLADEM]

31. I know it's not popular

but this is the best option for the sake of the country. Interest rates will skyrocket and millions of people will lost their jobs if we default.

Cuts to budget items and changes to entitlements can be modified later.

[Old Codger]

34. LOL

The united states has no remaining credibility, nothing left to lose.....


(on edit) I do not mean they should allow the default, and I seriously doubt they will. After the smoke clears and the smell goes away it will be done.

[jwirr]

41. Will it be that easy to restore a world wide depression? This is not

just about us. We do not know for sure what the consequences of a default will be. And what makes you think the voters would blame the rethugs. We would be the ones who caved. It is too late to let it fly the ball is in our court. We will get the blame and it will be our party that suffers.

[Tony_FLADEM]

12. I don't like this option but it's better than default

This is the situation we are facing.

[Ohio Joe]

14. Really?

Could you point me to the source that says we can only offer them everything they want or we can default? I missed it.

[Tony_FLADEM]

16. They are have not compromised 1 inch

This should tell you it's either give them everything or default. These people are not sane.

[Ohio Joe]

20. Sane? No

Racist? Yes.

Douchebags? Yes.

Will they be allowed by their corporate masters to fuck up the entire economy? No, they will bring it to the wire though in the hopes that someone will decide to do something as stupid as give them everything they want.

[Tony_FLADEM]

22. I hope you are right but I see how unyielding they are

and I just don't see them giving in.

[Ohio Joe]

23. So we should give them everything they want?

Everything?

Think about that for a bit.

Sheesh.

[Tony_FLADEM]

28. They both agree on the amount of the cuts

The only difference is they want a balanced budget amendment and they want the cuts to happen in a different sequence. I don't think the balanced budget amendment is a big deal. It would need to be ratified by 3/4 of the states. Also, it would take about 10 years. We might want to balance the budget by then anyway.

[Chan790]

36. No, it's not.

Trust me, I'm a banker. (I never thought I'd utter those words unironically.)

Default is better than getting saddled with a BBA. (That is so hard to undo that you need assume it can't be undone.)
Default is better than changing formulas within SS to insure it collapses.
Default is better than undertaking austerity measures that insure our recession is a permanent depression.

I take saying none of this lightly but Default is not the worst thing that can happen...the final Boehner bill is.

[Tony_FLADEM]

37. GDP would be reduced by 10% if we defaulted. Millions of people

would lose their jobs. That would be difficult to fix.

[Chan790]

40. Still better than the capitulation option.

Truly. What you're proposing is worse than default...I'm telling you that as a matter of fact.

Not opinion...fact.

Most of what the GOP is now demanding is worse than default and not fixable later.

[fishwax]

3. it won't be easy to change things later on

it would have to wait at least until 2013, and that's assuming the midterms bring a big democratic majority in the house. Even then it might not be enough unless we have 60 in the Senate, because there will be a good chance the repubs would filibuster any attempt to revoke such restrictions on medicare, etc.

[Tony_FLADEM]

8. That's true but it can be done

We don't know the what would result if the U.S. defaults or how it would need to be fixed.

[Poll_Blind]

4. I'm not going to hold the sentiment against you. There are many who are in...

...very dire straits and would be imperiled even further in a default situation, as would be all to one extent or another. There are a lot of people panicking right now. Whether the panic is justified or the avenues one should take if panicking...those are all things outside the scope of my post.

I disagree, however.

PB

[Tony_FLADEM]

11. We have elections every 2 years

People will remember this. I just feel this is the best path given the situation.

[RagAss]

18. did people remember Bush and Cheney in 2010 ?????????

[Tony_FLADEM]

25. They remembered Bush and Cheney in 2006 and 2008.

[Horse with no Name]

5. Once the social safety net is gone

it will just be gone.

There will be no "fixing it".

There will be no "damage control".

What it WILL do, is alienate EVERY.SINGLE.PROGRESSIVE voter in this country.

[Poll_Blind]

7. Agreed.

PB

[Tony_FLADEM]

21. Progressive voters will be understand given the sitation.

These things will be restored after the American People punish the Republicans and give Democrats more seats.

[Horse with no Name]

24. I admire your optimism.

However, progressives simply are not going to support a weak POTUS or Congress that doesn't stand up for what our party holds dear.

[Tony_FLADEM]

26. Every situation is different. I am understand given what the country faces

and I think other progressives would be to. If it were just a government shutdown this would be different. This is more cataclysmic..

[treestar]

9. True. Though I'd wait until past the last minute

Because basically they are bluffing, possibly. They might cave.

[Tony_FLADEM]

13. The Republicans are mentally ill. They are not going to cave.

[Chan790]

39. I think they have to.

Wall Street is the funder of the RNC and the Tea Party and American Crossroads. Wall Street says "Cave or we'll end you, Republicans...but get everything you can because your intransigence is going to slam this door in our faces and cost us plenty in concessions."

There is no endgame that doesn't end in us caving before the GOP can or the GOP caving...or anarchy.

[treestar]

43. If there is really going to be the meltdown described

You are right. They can't afford that either. They are just playing chicken. Which is why today's Republicans suck. They never grew up past the schoolyard.

[DLnyc]

15. Disagree

Better to shoot the hostage, in this case.

Anyway, the ceiling will go up pretty fast, once the bankers get on the phone and talk serious changes to campaign donations.

Very poor idea, in my opinion, to cave yet again. That is why we are in this fix, because we caved before (on a wimpy stimulus bill full of tax breaks, on extending the Bush tax cuts to the ultra-wealthy and so on).

[Tony_FLADEM]

17. The Tea Party people don't care about the bankers

These people are not dealing in reality.

[DLnyc]

32. I guess enough republicans care.

Together with Democrats in the House, a good handful of old-fashioned greedy money-grubbing Republicans would have a pretty easy time putting forward and passing a straight-up bill to raise the ceiling, especially with the portfolios of their deep-pocket cronies tanking, I think.

[Tony_FLADEM]

35. It would have happened by now.

These old-fashioned Republicans are worried about losing to a Tea Party loon.

[DLnyc]

38. Good point, but I'm not sure the big money has weighed in

I get the feeling they just figured Democrats would cave, they would get to keep their tax cuts and cut services and go right on making big money until they finally crash the whole system. But once there is an actual default, I think they are going to get all the Congressmen they own on the private line real quick.

But that is all really just my impression.

At any rate, I don't feel we have much influence on the process one way or the other.

And I don't think things look great, whether they pass the cuts without changing the obscene tax situation, or whether they fail and there is some sort of default.

God forbid there should be talk of a compromise that included some tax changes.

[LaurenG]

19. No Way. As the grownups in the room the LAST thing we do is give in to

toddler tantrums. These pathetic people have shown just how immature they are and as far as I'm concerned they need to be told no in no uncertain terms otherwise like toddlers they may hurt themselves and others.

[Proles]

29. The only thing worse than defaulting would be

having the Democrats agree that defaulting is an option.

Though I do kinda have the resigned attitude of "I don't care anymore, lets just default."

Doesn't feel like we have control anyways....

[Waiting For Everyman]

30. It'll be a looooooong time before we get another FDR or LBJ.

Just think about that for a minute.

Destruction is always easier and faster than building. That's the advantage they have over us.

[Tony_FLADEM]

33. I agree. They are only good at destroying things

Bush nearly destroyed this country and the Tea Party is finishing us off.

[saras]

42. It's really difficult to nationalize stuff that's been privatized.

Unless you perhaps mean that what they seem to want is total destruction. They don't have the right to impose this on anyone else, but if they really want it for themselves, I'm sure it can be arranged.