Fuck it - 14th Amendment time

[malaise]

Enough already

[scheming daemons]

1. Not until Monday at 11:59pm

[jwirr]

15. Well maybe a little earlier than that. That may be too close.

[TheWraith]

2. The 14th Amendment doesn't give the power to raise the debt ceiling. That's a misreading. nt

[still_one]

5. That is your interpretation of section 4 of th 14 the amendment. /nt

[TheWraith]

10. Please show me where it says congress can't limit the amount borrowed.

All it says is that the states cannot refuse to pay the federal debt.

[still_one]

11. Please show me where it says we won't honor our debts? /nt

[davidwparker]

9. if the Constitution stands behind all debt incurred, there

is no "ceiling."

[still_one]

3. Obama doesn't have the balls. /nt

[DJ13]

8. He can use mine

[DURHAM D]

4. If Reid and Pelosi refuse to carry water for whatever big concessions

Obama makes he may be forced to use it.

[TheWraith]

6. Ah yes, the imaginary concessions.

Those ones that talks have broken down over because he won't cave to the Republicans.

:eyes:

[LaydeeBug]

20. the only thing he won't cave on is a temporary increase.

He's giving them everything else.

[leveymg]

7. No reason to invoke it. The Fed will cover the Treasury checks under the $16T QE2. Fake crisis

to frighten the public and stampede Congress into making deep cuts. It's just cynical kabuki theater. See the discussion about the Fed's emergency powers at: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1604107#1604160

[jwirr]

17. What is fake is the idea that we need to fix the deficit on the backs

of the poor and elderly - not to mention the unemployed. This is the made up crisis. Our deficit is high but it is not at crisis stage. But the debt ceiling and the deficit are not the same thing and are not tied to each other. Not raising the debt ceiling is a problem that is real. Yes, someone may pay the bills if it is not lifted but not without expecting to be paid back. If we just do not raise the limit we will simply be borrowing more money to pay for the bills at a higher interest. This only deepens the debt problem. The deficit has nothing to do with any of it except in the rethug propaganda. The deficit is the false crisis. I do not believe President Obama has any intentions of caving. If he does he might as well forget 2012 and he knows it.

[malaise]

21. Thanks

:hi:

[LaydeeBug]

12. OBAMA. WON'T. do. that. He. *refuses* to fight

because cutting social security is what he wants.

LET IT STINK

[maryellen99]

16. You really believe he is that heartless

And would let the country collapse?

[LaydeeBug]

18. I think this is an example of his being DAFT, or this is indeed his design.

and I honestly can't decide which one is worse.

[divvy]

23. well, Obama is much too smart to be DAFT ..... which leaves us with what?

Unfortunately, our president does not believe in our platform. If he did, then he would be behaving differently.

[elocs]

13. No, it's not 14th time until the fat lady sings and not a minute before.

Obama cannot invoke it now, and who knows if he ever will. Nobody here for sure.

[LaydeeBug]

19. He has already said that the 14th amendment won't work. This way the "crisis" screams a fever pitch

and he credits himself with "saving" social security.

[jwirr]

14. Not yet. They still think they have something to offer us. First Harry's

bill which they will reject. Then either a one page bill or the 14th - I think the one page bill first because it is the ultimate proof of rethug goals to destroy the economy. If they pass it fine but if they do not then there is no choice but the 14th. At least I hope.

[malaise]

26. OK then

Fingers crossed

[divvy]

22. We do not have the collective SPINE to do that.

It is necessary, but the republican bastard would eat our lunch in the media if we did.

[PDittie]

24. The president is already implementing the 14th Amendment

Jack Balkin:

Obama has already told bond holders that there will be no default on bonds. He plans to use existing revenues to pay off interest on the debt and other vested obligations. This is required by section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment. Whatever he says in public, his lawyers have almost certainly told him something like that.

But that means less money for other government services, including social safety net programs like Medicare.

So we'll see a partial government shutdown once the government runs out of other options.

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/07/obama-is-already-invoking-14th.html

More from the Great Orange Satan:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/29/1000330/-Balkin:-There-will-be-no-default,-as-the-president-already-is-using-the-14th-Amendment?detail=hide&via=blog_1

[rucky]

25. Shut down the government to pay Wall Street & China

priorities.