Sources: debt deal calls for up to $2.8 trillion in savings

[gateley]

Washington (CNN) -- The framework of a tentative deal to raise the nation's debt ceiling calls for up to $2.8 trillion in total deficit reduction over the next decade, two sources familiar with the negotiations told CNN late Saturday night.

The agreement, still being negotiated by the White House and bipartisan congressional leaders, would allow the debt ceiling to be raised by enough to last at least through the end of 2012.

The debt limit would be increased in two stages, both of which would occur automatically -- a key Democratic demand that would prevent a repeat of the current crisis before the next election.

The agreement includes upfront spending cuts in the range of roughly $1 trillion, the sources said. A special congressional committee would recommend additional spending reductions of up to $1.8 trillion no later than Thanksgiving. If Congress failed to approve the recommended cuts by late December, automatic, across-the-board cuts -- including both defense and Medicare -- would take effect. /snip

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/30/debt.talks/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Divine Discontent]

1. now they finally have it more than likely agreed upon. let's see what it truly entails.

I was about to post this, and thought, it's GD, not LBN (at this point), and see you got it up, thanks.

[gateley]

2. And WaPo is reporting it, too (see a couple of posts down on 'latest' page). nt

[Divine Discontent]

6. this possible plan has an extra 600 billion in cuts over a decade compared to Reid's plan. oh my.

I just can't wait to see what these wonderful cuts will entail! The CBO said Reid's budget bill would actually bring about 2.2 trillion in cuts, and this newly announced one they're working on is said to be around 2.8 trillion. Hoping this does not make life much harder on certain people, if it does, there's gonna be a massive amount of frustration being shown. Many of us understood they were probably going to go to the wire with this, and were just hoping that whatever compromise was done, was not so harmful to everyday people.
This next election is gonna be a nasty nasty one, with lots of hostile altercations because of the economy, and the dire consequences that B*sh's reign has put America into. I've always believed that B*sh's disastrous president was going to harm us for decades, sure looks that way.

[gateley]

10. At this point, I just want Medicare, et al, UNTOUCHED. Other than

that, we can fight about the other stuff later, and hopefully we'll get our messaging across better. We've got to have a more receptive populace after this debacle.

[Divine Discontent]

12. not sure if that's gonna happen with Medicare, but we can hope! and you're right, the messaging to

the "people" is important now, because it really seems that most are disgusted with the GOP, as they should be.

[ticapnews]

3. And what revenue enhancers?

The link doesn't mention any...just an oversight on CNN's part, yes?

[gateley]

11. That IS rhetorical, isn't it? nt

[BzaDem]

4. There has been an update to ABC's post about the deal: no Medicare benefit cuts. Defense would be

hit harder than Medicare, and Medicare cuts would be limited to providers:

"Democrats won't like the fact that Medicare could be exposed to automatic cuts, but the size of the Medicare cuts is limited and they are designed to be taken from Medicare providers, not beneficiaries.

Two sources briefed on the framework say the automatic cuts would hit Defense spending harder than Medicare. A Republican briefed on the framework says this will be unacceptable to many Republicans because it could force them to face a choice between accepting tax increases (if that is what the committee recommends) or automatic cuts that would gut the Pentagon's budget."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/07/white-house-republicans-strike-tenative-deal-to-raise-debt-ceiling-.html

It looks like the defense cuts would be so unacceptable to Republicans that they will just repeal the trigger later (in one massive bipartisan hug-fest).

[Capitalocracy]

5. That committee and deadline just sound peachy.

That will be fun. A sword of Damocles over Medicare if we don't approve cuts approved by a committee... that will probably recommend cutting Medicare.

[Poll_Blind]

7. Sweet! The kinder, gentler SuperCongress/Star Chamber.

From the WaPo story on this:

In the second stage, a special congressional committee would be created to identify additional savings later this year.

--snip--

The focus of talks Saturday was a mechanism to force the committee to act and to ensure that Congress adopts its recommendations.

"...to force the committee to act and to ensure that Congress adopts its recommendations."

Now there's a phrase that sticks in the mind on reading!

PB

[Armstead]

8. It'll be Republicans and democratic Fiscal Hawks

Liberals need not apply

[gateley]

14. Well true fiscally hawkish people would have to see that the

majority of the problems lies with the lack of revenue because of the Bush tax cuts and loopholes for Big Biz, and, of course, the military black hole. Or am I just kidding myself?

[Capitalocracy]

16. Yes, you're just kidding yourself.

I saw someone on Fox News just yesterday talking about how you can never, ever, ever, ever in a million years solve this crisis by taxing the rich. And he had some rather misleading numbers to back it up.

Edit to add: OK, you're right, if by "true" fiscally hawkish people you mean serious ones who care about real numbers. And who understand real numbers. But this is a miniscule subset of the deficit hawks.

The best way to solve this thing would be a combination of cutting wasteful military spending, raising taxes on those who can afford it, adding some brackets so there's a difference between someone who makes $200,000 and $200,000,000 a year, and actually investing money, you know, leveraging our debt and spending, in more social programs to grow the economy. But that's not going to happen... they're going to do more austerity, which is like trying to stop someone's bleeding with a razorblade.

[gateley]

17. Well a bi-partisan group probably wouldn't use Fox's source

for numbers. I'd think they'd use one source, like the CBO, which we've heard basically supports "our" side.

There are SOME Republicans who 'get it', and again, if they are true fiscal hawks the facts are supporting the approach you cite.

I actually think that if it is truly an objective group and they can get past their politics, the findings and recommendations will benefit us all. I've come to the conclusion that it might be a better solution than to make choices now under this deadline pressure and so politically motivated with no real gains toward solving the problems.

[Armstead]

21. Maybe fiscal vultures would havce been a better term

[dkf]

9. I imagine this also constrains spending as it might push the debt ceiling before 2012.

[kath]

13. But no increase in revenue??!? If so, what total fucking bullshit. TAX THE RICH!!

[gateley]

15. I just posted upthread that I think any fiscally objective person

would know that the best way to address the budget is to let the tax cuts expire, close the loopholes for corporations (that would generate a WAD of revenue) and whittle back a teensie bit on the military.

At this minute, they're not going to give on the taxes and we could well use the time to better craft our message and polish our sound bites because we've been woefully abysmal thus far. I'm just happy that no Med/SS/Med is being touched -- that was pretty iffy for a while. We can hash out the rest of the crap later, and I HOPE WE'VE LEARNED FROM OUR MISTAKES!

[MadHound]

18. In other words, we lose.

One trillion in unspecified cuts now, to be followed by another 1.8 trillion in cuts by the end of the year, including cuts to Medicare. The largest set of spending cuts in generations, piled onto an already fragile economy.

This is not a win, this means that millions of us will lose.

[mmonk]

19. Cuts. Savings is a political term.

[DCBob]

20. sounds like the main issues to work out are the details of the triggers..

I suspect they will work those out soon.