Controversy - dog ordered euthanized for killing 5 chickens

[Liberal_in_LA]

Local Dog Waiting for Appeal Creates a Stir Online

Tolland residents and dog lovers all over are mobilizing online to debate the case for a local Siberian husky named Luna, whose owner has been issued an order to put Luna down after she killed five chickens belonging to a neighbor.

Luna, who is currently housed in the Tolland Animal Control Shelter, is awaiting a hearing to appeal the disposal order, but animal lovers from near and far have already begun a raging debate about her story on Facebook. The page has attracted 334 “likes.”

“I don’t want to put her down for killing chickens,” Luna’s owner, Tolland resident Paul Doyle, said. Doyle, who has previously owned two other Siberian huskies, said that Luna is the only animal he’s owned that frequently roamed the neighborhood.

----------------------------

Tolland resident Dan Heald, owner of the slain chickens, said that he is frustrated that some residents do not consider his lost birds as “real pets.”

“These are chickens that my kids take care of,” he said. “They’re pets to them.”

Heald added that his 4-year-old son witnessed the first attack. In fact, Heald was close to killing Luna himself during the attack, which he was legally allowed to do.

http://tolland.patch.com/articles/local-dog-waiting-for-appeal-creates-a-stir-online

[TwilightGardener]

1. I don't think the dog deserves to die--it's not like she attacked people.

It's pretty common for dogs to go after smaller animals. But the dead chickens--that is the dog owner's responsibility, and that owner should pay fines and should have to compensate the chicken owner. Poor chickens, they shouldn't be treated as less important of pets as the dog. The owner obviously was attached to them.

[ZombieHorde]

2. If the dog was a corporation, he would be paid to kill chickens. nt

[kelly1mm]

3. Here in Maryland you can shoot any animal that is threatening livestock.

If the dog was killing my chickens it would have been shot then SSS.

[idiotgardener]

5. self-delete

nevermind

[csziggy]

10. Yes, I've come close to shooting dogs that I thought was a danger

To my horses and my cats - and to me since they were people aggressive. This pair of Labradoodles were regular about coming onto my farm, attacked our 17 year old decrepit cat and when I tried to chase them off, turned on me.

I was ready to shoot them the next time they came over, but after I tracked down and called the owners and told them my plans, they finally have managed to keep their dogs fastened up. It took two years from the time I originally saw the dogs for the entire thing to finally work out.


It may have helped that because of another stray dog, my mares now have the reputation of being dog killers. An elderly English bull dog showed up, I caught him, located the owners, called and they came to pick him up. The next time I saw the dog, I called them, but did not try to catch him first. He was out in the field when they got here. They called the dog to them. My mares heard the call, thought it was dinner time and came hauling butt.

The dog made it under the fence just before the mares got there, but it really looked as though the mares were coming after the dog. I did not disabuse the dog owners of this impression. The mares have in the past gone after dogs and foxes in the pastures. My stallion took a hunk out of a dog's back once. This behavior is not one I would train out of my horses, with coyotes in the neighborhood and increasing numbers of stray dogs.

[newfie11]

12. It is that way in many rural areas in this country.

Why wasn't the dog fenced in! This is the owners responsibility.

[Rabblevox]

4. "Luna is the only animal he’s owned that frequently roamed the neighborhood."...

ummm...a better fence?

[Aerows]

29. Better owner

He shouldn't have a dog that size if he isn't going to take care of it properly. If this would have been a lion or a tiger, we would have all been asking wtf he was allowed to keep it if he wasn't taking care of it properly.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Dog should have been killed in the act

the carcass returned to the owner with a bill for the dead chickens.

[saras]

8. The dog isn't the problem - the owner is

"Luna is the only animal he’s owned that frequently roamed the neighborhood."

Then he should have been getting frequent, expensive tickets, and been having to drive down to the animal shelter regularly to recover his dog. After a few grand in fines, he might have gotten it through his head. He might even have lost the dog if he didn't get off his ass and get down there on time.

Personally I wouldn't want my kid in the same yard as a dog that's killing chickens - dogs just aren't that smart when they're busy killing.

In an alternative universe, "an eye for an eye" might have called for having all the guy's dogs killed in front of his family, but hopefully we've outgrown that.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. They both are

It is unfortunate that the dog needs to be killed

[sendero]

15. Exactly.

.... this is the owner's failure.

[bluestate10]

18. I agree. The problem is the owner. The owner joins a long list of irresponsible

pet owners. Some owners own extraordinarily dangerous pets and show no adequate control over them. I still remember a case where a USA owner of a pet cobra allowed the snake to escape. The snake ended up coiled among toys at a nearby grade school, luckily a child noticed it before reaching for a toy and an astute teacher got children out of the room and called the cops.

[Brickbat]

22. The thing is, the dog now is a problem

Once a dog kills chickens, it wakes something up that's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get rid of.

[TwilightGardener]

24. Why not just keep the dog inside then, and put him on a leash when outside?

Or make an enclosure? My dogs are generally on leashes when they're outside. They are never allowed to roam freely, except when we're outside with them in the yard, supervising.

[Aerows]

41. They get a taste for blood

and they get difficult to contain. I agree. That's not a folk tale, and a lot of people don't get that.

[Horse with no Name]

7. Very sad. Problem is that a dog that starts killing chickens

it is very hard to stop them.
Whatever barrier that is put up the dog will probably get around.

That being said...some people have had moderate success with retraining a dog. Possibly relocating the dog to a new home that isn't near chickens might be a solution.

[Drahthaardogs]

27. Nonsense, an old wives tale and nothing more.

I train field trial dogs and have for years. I guarantee you with an electronic collar and two weeks, I could convince that dog that even LOOKING at a chicken was a bad idea. Modern training methods and tools can cure this in a hurry. In the business, it is known as "trashbreaking" and it is just that. Breaking the dog off of deer, chickens, coons, etc.

[Aerows]

43. I've always heard once a dog got a taste for blood

they were hard to break from it. Mind you, I'm no professional, and the only dog I ever had was a 100 lbs. Doberman that I personally took through obedience training and would not harm a fly unless I asked him to. If his yard was threatened (which once, it was by an intruder and he nearly took a seven-foot wood fence down to get after said intruder who quickly decided to gtfo) or I was threatened, it was an entirely different story. He was a sweetheart, and I miss him to this day. He was the size of a damn deer.

It's great that now there are new methods. I trained him with a pinch collar at six months. I weigh about 100 lbs myself, and he and were about the same size, but he was immensely stronger than I am. He was very well behaved, thankfully. If Blue (he was a blue dobie) would have started killing things, I wouldn't have been able to stop him. Of course, he was adored, and his strength/size respected, so he also stayed inside, was trained, and supervised in environments where he could get himself in trouble.

Which kind of dogs do you train?

[Drahthaardogs]

45. It is not about "taste of blood" it is all about prey drive

Once it is awoken, it is there to stay. However, the dog is not a complete victim to his biology. You can easily direct the prey drive to appropriate items and deter it from inappropriate items. My dogs love to chase rabbits. I do not like really like them chasing rabbits. They may track rabbits, they may point rabbits, they may even retrieve a shot rabbit. They are, however, not allowed to chase them with wild abandon. They know this. It is training.

The dog in question though, at five years old, has some bad habits. She has in irresponsible owner, and she is lucky she was not been shot. There is no need to kill this dog however. Simply putting her in a nice priefert kennel on concrete will fix the problem instantly. As for being "high strung" she is a working dog. An owner too lazy to fix his fence is also too lazy to properly exercise his dog. She has too much energy that the owner is not expending.

[Aerows]

46. Good to know

As for being high strung, I took my Doberman running or rollerblading daily to work off his energy, and you are correct - they are working dogs and need a lot of exercise. Mine nearly took down a 7 foot fence because somebody jumped it to get in the back yard, but hell, that's what he was in the yard to do in the first place! They need attention and things to do though - Blue would get the leash between his teeth and drag me down the street on my blades LOL. He was a WONDERFUL dog.

I agree that there is no need to kill the dog. The owner is the idiot, not the dog.

[Aerows]

48. Duh - I looked at your name LOL

You train German Pointers, then? They are cuties. I'm not familiar with hunting dogs, but as I understand it, they are very loyal, and intelligent dogs once trained correctly.

That must be very rewarding and fun.

[Drahthaardogs]

52. I train German Drahthaars bred, trained, and tested under

the www.vdd-gna.org

We have strict breeding controls, breed wardens, hunting tests, health tests, blood tests, immaculate records for all to see. Anyone who wants to see "socialism" vs. Capitalsim in action can look to the Deutsch-Drahthaar vs. his American German Wirehaired Pointer counterpart. Due to our philosophy of producing puppies that all have the abilities to do anything a hunter could ask of them vs. the American dream of the "one in a million super pup" to make $100,000/yr in stud fees. Our incidence of hip dysplasia is less than 3%. Serious (actually debilitating) dysplasia is less than 0.04% We just do not have those kinds of health problems.

AS to the Drahts, they are a very different creature than most American bred dogs. Tightly bred, tightly controlled, huge prey drives, incredibly smart, but not a dog for the faint of hear or the weak of spirit. They are, after all, used on brown bear and Russian boar.

[Aerows]

55. Wow

Very amazing. My Doberman had bone problems as a puppy, in that he had inadequate calcium uptake. It was a challenge to get him up to speed, but he was great once he was, up until his untimely, in my opinion, death at 10.

I suspect that weak of spirit and feint of heart can be very different things to different people. If I can train a feral (before I adopted her as an adult of 16 months or so) cat to walk on a leash, then perhaps we aren't entirely different in spirit.

I love animals, and it makes me very happy to hear of someone who spends their time doing something more than making generic pets. That, to me, is a testament to quality far greater than just wanting to breed or even train, dogs. That means you are committed to making great companions.

[Drahthaardogs]

57. By faint of heart I mean,

drahts are tough dogs. Tough physically and tough mentally. I am very much a "cookie" trainer and I rely on food treats to get a response probably 95% of the time. However, pinch collars, electronic collars and a toe hitch are pretty much required to train these guys. They WILL test you. If you are one who is afraid to physically correct the dog, you will not get their respect. There will probably be 20 people now tell me how clicker training can solve everything, but they have never trained a hard charging male drahthaar. They are not golden retriever type, easy going, dogs. Most folks do not have the capacity to train them up correctly.

[Aerows]

59. I trained

Blue with a pinch collar. You already know I'm not in that class. :) Can't be.

He was the best and only dog I ever had though, and I took the advice of the obedience trainer, and it was good advice.

[Politicalboi]

60. A guy I used to work with

lived on a farm, and when the dog killed a chicken, they would put the dead chicken in a burlap sack and tie it to the dogs neck till the dog couldn't take the smell anymore. Supposedly this works too.

[Drahthaardogs]

65. I can assure you it does not work.

Dogs find the smell of rotting flesh irresistible. A dog properly conditioned to an electronic collar and then a trash breaking session in three or four different areas (dogs are very place oriented) using a live chicken would cure this dog.

[Abq_Sarah]

9. If he can't keep the dog confined

He needs to find another home for it. The owner of the chickens needs to be compensated and Doyle should be heavily fined.

Years ago, I had neighbors who had chickens. We had a fenced yard (5 ft chain link) but the chickens would occasionally end up in our yard and my dogs would run them down and kill them. They were non aggressive towards other dogs and even cats but boy, they hated those chickens.

[exboyfil]

13. Not so much hate

as instinctive behavior. My docile beagle killed a rabbit once. I was shocked at the time, but dogs are descended from one of the world's most successful carnivore that sits at the apex of its food chain. Birds are an obvious food source for wolves and other canines in the wild - why should it be any different for our domestic dogs. Birds caught are easy to kill unlike members of the cat family.

[H2O Man]

14. Huskies kill chickens.

I had one years ago. I also had chickens.

My grandfather asked me what I planned to do to keep my chickens safe? I said I'd teach the dog not to bother the birds. Pappy said, "Like hell you will."

He was right. Huskies will kill animals such as chickens. Once they have killed one, they will always attempt to kill others.

[RobinA]

39. Total Nonsense

We have a highly prey-driven dog and we have chickens and guineas. Killed a chicken and started to eat it once when we first got her. We made it clear that we weren't happy with that behavior. Never did it again. She has rid the property of goundhogs, though. Knows she can't catch squirrels, tried with deer until she got up in years, scared to death of cats because one jumped on her back once.

[H2O Man]

51. absolute nonsense

[JanMichael]

42. I'm not keen on people allowing dogs to roam around neighborhoods.

It isn't fair to the dog who can get shot or killed by a car and it isn't fair to others who may have their family members (pets or people) killed in their yard or on a leash. I've also looked up Tolland and it's pretty clear it isn't a farm community. And yes mildly urban areas can allow for chickens as mine does.

So we have an owner of a dog who obviously cannot control it and therefore ought not to have it.

EDIT: this was a general comment on the story not yours, Sorry.

[H2O Man]

53. I agree.

That was definitely the case in the story in the OP.

I lived on a farm that was isolated by miles and miles of state land from any neighbor. I still rarely had my dogs loose, and only when I was out with them. The huskie, in particular, did get away and run for great distances sometimes.

[LaydeeBug]

16. In order to get the dog not to attack the chickens...

they have to tie the carcass of one of the chickens around the dog's neck and let it rot there. No I am not kidding. Yes it is gross. As the dog ties to free itself, the stench that he has to deal with will ABSOLUTELY stop him from EVER attacking another chicken again. Farm House rules.

I *almost* made this analogy with our current center right Republican president. I still might.

[Kali]

19. that doesn't work

as anybody who has owned a dog that likes to roll in nasty muck can attest

I can attest it doesn't work on (some) chicken killers either, having tried it twice.

[Occulus]

23. That's actually a myth

It doesn't really work at all.

[rucky]

17. Dirty Old Egg-Suckin' Dog...

http://youtu.be/vYNK8A_bXwA

[undeterred]

20. Thats too bad but they shouldn't kill the dog.

[Brickbat]

21. Once a dog kills chickens, it will fixate on that. It wrecks a dog.

I'd put it down, and I would not have had a problem with the chicken-owner shooting the dog during the attack.

[Aerows]

31. It's an owner problem

more than anything. Had this been a lion or a bobcat, we'd all be wondering why he kept it in the first place if he wasn't going to care for it properly.

People with wolf-like or pit-bull dogs need to understand that they have a deadly weapon. It looks like the family pet, but it needs to be treated as responsibly as one would treat owning a gun. You don't let that roam the damn neighborhood, and you don't let it around strangers without supervision. It's as simple as that.

[LWolf]

25. Of course there is no middle ground here.

We can't expect Luna's owner to do more than "try" to keep her contained, by actually keeping her contained.

We can't allow real life to terrorize the neighbor's kids.

I lost a couple of chickens to my mom's dog last winter; she came to stay the winter with me, and her dog tore through the perimeter fence around the house, supposed to keep her restricted from the rest of the ranch, a few times before we found all the weak spots. I'd never had to worry about it before, since my dog has been living around free-range chickens for her entire 8 years without ever disturbing a feather or a fence.

I didn't ask my mom to put her dog down.

[Drahthaardogs]

26. What is next? Euthanizing every cat that kills a sparrow?

This is stupid. Replace the chickens...yes. Fine the owner for dog at large...yes. Make owner contain the dog...yes. Kill the dog for being a dog... asinine.

[Aerows]

28. Cats kill sparrows

But dogs that size can kill people. If you have a large dog, you have a responsibility to make sure they aren't roaming the neighborhood and preying on people's livestock. Sure, it's somebodies penned up chickens to you, but to a large dog, that is LET OUT, it's a buffet. That's why they shouldn't be let out without supervision.

It's not a cat and sparrow situation, either. Sparrows are wild and can get away. Someone's penned livestock can't.

Should the dog be killed? No. Should the owner have all of his dogs taken away? Yes, for the good of the neighborhood.

[Drahthaardogs]

35. I agree the dog should be taken away.

But I disagree that "cats kill sparrows so its okay". There have been many studies that show how destructive cats let outdoors are to wildlife. I have had cats get into my pigeon coop many times and they simply kill kill and kill some more. My dogs are always kenneled on concrete and only loose when I am running them. I live on an acreage. Any time I see at large cats on my property they are live trapped and dropped off at a humane society. If I catch the same cat twice, he goes to the no-kill shelter the next town over where I hope his new owners have enough sense not to let him loose at night.

[Aerows]

36. I have two cats

one is so old and declawed she can't go out, and the other comes in at the first sign of rain, too much sun and at night :).

Cats are destructive, I agree. Raccoons are more of a problem where I live, though. I adore my cats and treat them accordingly :hug:

[Drahthaardogs]

37. You should keep ALL your cats inside.

They are awful on songbirds, pheasants, quail, and rabbits. I once had a "chicken killer" that I thought was a raccoon. Two nights and four cans of tuna later, turned out it was a big old white tom cat. They are predators just like a dog. They are probably more efficient though.

[Aerows]

38. Both of mine are inside right now

and yes, my indoor/outdoor is a very efficient predator. I was pretty happy when she got rid of the mouse problem in the storage shed and got two rats that were in the woodpile.

She's bad - I agree, but I adore her, and she is starting to stay inside more. She is extremely efficient at killing moles, mice and rats, though, and I'm not about to fault her for it, since that's something I want her to do.

Oh, and mine has a collar and a tag, so there is no wondering who she belongs to.

[Aerows]

50. Oh and my raccoon problem?

I KNOW it's raccoons because they are so damn brazen that I went out on the back patio to smoke one night and thought there was a family of dogs there - until I realized it was three raccoons. Not scared, just sitting there. They were waiting for me to feed my cat. Another time, I was on the porch and gave Roma a piece of pork chop. I was reading on the laptop, and a raccoon - two feet from my bare foot with Roma in my lap strolled right up and grabbed it in her hands.

That's why Roma comes in at night now. I know when there are little muddy "hand prints" all over things that it isn't the cat. They are hilarious, but they worry me because of rabies. I have NO idea how to keep the precocious idiots out of things. I can't keep ANYTHING on the back porch that even resembles treats, food or toys.

[Drahthaardogs]

56. Skunks are far worse for rabies than raccoons

they are not terrible carriers of it. They are nasty little buggers though. Urbanized raccoons are fearless and I have seen them bluff a dog right off of his food bowl.

[Aerows]

58. The raccoons around here are

possibly "urbanized", though I doubt it, because this is a rural environment. I almost fainted when I saw them, and I don't scare easily, but this is not an environment I'm used to.

Good to know they are lesser carriers of rabies, because that is what scared me the most. I'm an animal lover but all I could think of is "what if they bite me and give me a fatal disease". LOL.

Some tough chick I am.

[RobinA]

40. Yeah, I Feel Like

I've tripped into freeper land. Kill, kill, kill - an eye for an eye.

[Aerows]

44. Hey

I'm the last person to advocate killing the dog. That seems extremely heavy handed. He just needs a different owner, IMHO, that isn't stupid enough to let a huge dog roam around.

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. I wonder where Morrissey comes down on this issue?

[shanti]

32. the dog's owner

why is he letting the dog loose to run the neighborhood and wreak this havoc?

[deaniac21]

33. In the south when a dog begins to kill neighborhood animals

the dog tends to disappear.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Kind of like executiing the car because the didn't set the brake on a hill.

[flvegan]

47. But they're just chickens.

Just like the ones so many folks eat every day. Dare I say many in this thread. They aren't even really protected by livestock welfare laws.

Aaaaand... :popcorn:

[WinkyDink]

49. Wow. I guess Messers Tyson and Perdue better watch their backs!

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Warren]

61. I would have shot the dog

I had to once, I had a cow who had just dropped a calf a pack of dogs had them cornered in a back pasture.

[KittysRfuzzy]

62. That's how they did it when i was a kid

If a dog even chased someones cattle they would shoot it. Same went for other livestock.

[Philippine expat]

63. I agree with the court

the dog needs to be put down, then on the other hand if they were my chickens the dog would already be dead

[prayin4rain]

64. Our dog was labeled dangerous and almost killed for CHASING a duck... n/t

[4_TN_TITANS]

66. That would have been around $60 in chickens

in this part of the country. I would agree with sparing the dog's life as long as the owner was compensated for his loss. Everything in the world is out to get chickens, more often that not chickens are killed by something before old age gets them, in my experience.