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The Debt Ceiling Is Not Like the Credit Limit on Your Visa Card!

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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:53 AM
Original message
The Debt Ceiling Is Not Like the Credit Limit on Your Visa Card!
I wrote this originally as a note on my Facebook page, but thought I'd share it here as well. I realize, of course, that I'm preaching to the choir here!

The Debt Ceiling Is Not Like the Credit Limit on Your Visa Card!


by Mark Kessinger on Sunday, July 31, 2011 at 2:21am



There is plenty I could rant about concerning the current standoff in Congress between the two parties concerning the deb ceiling, but I will spare everyone that and focus instead on a particular conservative talking point that seems to be raised in discussions all over the web about the debt ceiling.

All over the web in comments to articles about the debt ceiling fight, tea party conservatives ask the following rhetorical question-cum-talking-point: "If an individual maxes out his or her credit card and is having trouble meeting his or her debt obligations, should that person request an increase in his or her credit limit?"

At first glance, the question seems to make a certain intuitive sense, and can thus be a seductive way to view the debt ceiling debate. But it is a faulty analogy on several levels.

First, there is an important qualifier in the rhetorical question that renders it inapplicable to the nation's current situation: "...and is having trouble meeting his or her debt obligations..." is the operative phrase. As far as the national debt, the nation is not currently having difficult meeting its debt obligations. The size of the debt is a long-term concern that must eventually be addressed, but it is not the immediate crisis conservatives would have everyone believe.

Second, a credit limit on a credit card is a limit imposed by a creditor, based on how much risk that creditor is willing to undertake in light of the cardholder­'s credit history. The debt ceiling, however, is a self-impos­ed limit. So the analogous situation in a personal credit card scenario to the debt ceiling would be if a credit card holder who had a credit limit of, say, $10,000, and had maxed out at that limit, suddenly decided, on his own, that he was going to arbitraril­y impose his own credit limit at some level below the total amount of charges he had already made—let's say, at $7,500 for the sake of argument—and simply refuse to accept that he had already racked up $2,500 over that amount and refuse to pay those charges. Try that sometime, and see what happens to your credit score. And see what happens to the cost of any future borrowing or indebtedne­ss you might choose to undertake at a later time. That, in a nutshell, is what the economical­ly illiterate Tea Party Republican­s are really playing with.

The revenue (tax) and spending decisions that have brought us to the debt ceiling were already made, and those debt obligations already incurred. Failure to raise the debt limit -- something that was done 18 times under Ronald Reagan and 7 times under George W. Bush -- amounts to the United States simply refusing to meet the obligations it has already committed itself to.

Of course, this bit of misinformation partakes of a much larger myth -- actually a two-part myth -- that much of the public has been sold. That is, of course, the suggestion that the federal government should balance it's budget just like the vast majority of American households do. The first bit of fiction underlying that notion is that managing a nation's economy (macroeconomics) is the same thing as managing a household budget (microeconomics). The two are not at all the same thing, as any reputable economist will readily tell you.

The second fiction embedded in this notion is that the majority of American families "balance their budgets." This is frankly a bald-faced lie. The vast majority of Americans manage a considerable amount of debt -- mortgages, student loans, car payments, credit card debt. In fact, many American families manage a level of debt that is considerably higher (as a percentage of annual income) than the current national debt (as a percentage of annual GDP). If the average American family were to impose the household equivalent of a "balanced budget amendment" (with which the Tea Party conservatives are attempting to saddle the nation), that would mean they wouldn't own homes or cars, and far fewer of them would have been able to afford any form of higher education.

Debt—even the national debt—is not inherently a bad thing. And before people jump on the "Balanced Budget Amendment" bandwagon, perhaps they should consider how that would have played out in our nation's history if such an Amendment has been in existence. For one thing, if the Continental Congress had been subject to such an amendment, the colonies could never have financed the Revolutionary War. If Lincoln had been subject to such an amendment, the Union would never have survived the Civil War because it wouldn't have been able to finance the Civil War. All those bridges and highways and other infrastructure projects that were built by the WPA and the Civilian Conservation Corps—projects that both met a need for such infrastructure and enabled millions to eat—couldn't have been built. Neither could the Interstate highway system. Oh, and you can forget about the country being able to mobilize for WWII -- it could never have happened. So before we hamstring future generations' ability to respond to the crises of their times as they see fit, perhaps we should consider what and where this country would be had our forebears been so constrained.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. The debt limit is the discipline you attempt to put on your expenses.
And since we have none, here we are.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. No, it really isn't the same as the discipline you put on personal expenses...
Raising the debt ceiling is NOT about new expenditures -- it's about meeting existing ones. Not the same thing at all as putting discipline on your personal expenditures. Again, that falls into the confused idea of treating macroeconomics like microeconomics. They are different animals altogether.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Um I can have an ATT bill but if my credit card is at it's limit I can't pay can i?
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes, but as I said in my OP...
...a credit limit on a credit card is something a creditor imposes on you, not something you impose on yourself. The debt ceiling is entirely an artificial constraint, imposed by Congress on Congress. Like I said, try pretending your credit limit, and the amount you are obligated to pay, is less than what you have actually racked up in charges. Just try it. And see what happens to your credit score (and very possibly to existing interest rates on other cards as well).
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You can decide to ask for more credit or limit yourself to what you have currently.
That is what we are faced with. Do I want to apply for more credit.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. You could if you were allowed to issue the currency in which your debt is owed.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Except they aren't doing that.
China has already complained about our devaluing of the dollar. They feel we've defaulted as we've reduced their wealth.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. China can depeg the yuan if they're that concerned..
and they ought to be diversifying their reserve holdings, anyhow.
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digitaln3rd Donating Member (533 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. If we have to keep raising it to meet existing expenditures...
Then maybe we should think about spending so much.
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Beartracks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. "economical­ly illiterate" - Tea Party didn't get elected 'cuz of their smarts.
Being educated and smart about things would've smacked of elitism, plus alienated them from their base. No -- better to go with gut feelings and assumptions and "common sense." it's easier and cheaper than actually learning stuff for realz.

=========================

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Zebedeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. You said:
"In fact, many American families manage a level of debt that is considerably higher (as a percentage of annual income) than the current national debt (as a percentage of annual GDP)."

To make this comparison fair, shouldn't the national debt be measured as a percentage of annual revenues paid to the government, rather than as a percentage of GDP?
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lonestarlib Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Speaking of that, who decided that national debt should be a
certain percentage of GDP?
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Zebedeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Not sure
but I think they are talking about that in terms of what is unsustainable. When a country's national debt is equal to the whole economic activity of the nation, that is not a good sign.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Not necessarily so. By today's standards, we borrowed upward of 120% of GDP to win WW2.
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 05:58 AM by Selatius
Every successive president up until Ronald Reagan was responsible enough to pay down the national debt in increments over the next several decades, to the point that the size of the national debt shrunk to about 33% of the GDP of the country. It was only Ronald Reagan and more radical Republicans who broke the trend, landing us into this situation today. They like to say "tax and spend liberals," and it's become a popular meme, yet they hem and haw whenever you call them "borrow and spend conservatives."

Imagine hamstringing the US with a balanced budget amendment in the years before WW2 began for the US. The US would've likely lost the war, even if it raised taxes on the wealthiest Americans, which it did quite a lot under FDR. It would not have been able to pay for the war effort required to win without the ability to borrow (selling US gov't bonds to Americans and anybody else willing to buy them) as well as the ability to tax. In fact, because of the huge amount of deficit spending the US engaged in during that war, it essentially caused the Great Depression to evaporate. The 1950s and 1960s were remembered as one of the greatest boom years of the US economy because all that spending on jobs programs and war mobilization put so much money into the pockets of workers, who then spent it on the economy when they returned from war.



If there is one thing that should be remembered as far as macroeconomics goes, it's that consumer demand for products and services is a driver of the economy. Consumers, not producers, determine how the US economy fares. If there is no demand for products and services because people are out of work and have no spare cash to buy things, producers are not going to create new jobs for anybody. Only if they see demand pick up, then they will go about the task of expanding production lines, hiring new staff, and spending money on research and development to better answer customer demand.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. No, I think GDP is the proper measure, because...
...GDP directly impacts revenues. If GDP is up, so will revenues be up.
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Zebedeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. But GDP is not the income of the government.
The government's income is its revenue. So when you are making a comparison between an American family's debt level and the federal government's debt level, you should be describing these debt levels as a percentage of the income of the entity, not as a percentage of all of the economic activity in the whole country.
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